FORUMS: list search recent posts

In need of Decklink workflow advice

COW Forums : Blackmagic Design

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Robbie Brandon
In need of Decklink workflow advice
on Mar 8, 2012 at 5:53:06 am

Hello everyone. Its been a while since i've lurked on here, but i remember this being THE place to go for good advice. Please excuse me if any of these are dumb questions, and if this should be moved, please feel free to do so.
I have been very fortunate to land a job designing video production suites for large churches. The problem is, I'm a bit out of my league! I have some install experience, a little videography, very little editing, and most of my experience is in live production. I have a great base of knowledge for the job, but post production is definitely a weakness for me.
First a little about the entire setup. My first job has a $140,000 video budget which includes construction, gear, and installation. I figure I need to keep the gear to around $65k. Ive decided to take advantage of Black Magic Designs new ATEM line for all the switching/comms/etc. I will be using 3 PTZ cameras with hd-sdi out, and one canon XA10 with Hdmi out. I was thinking of using one of BMD HDMI-->SDI mini converters at the XA10 to give me a long sdi run back to the switcher. Each of the PTZ cameras have 2 sdi outs, so I plan to run to the switcher and one straight to a BMD Decklink Quad (for each of the 3 cameras) and use distribution to give me two feeds from the XA10. I will be using one PC to run the ATEM television studio switcher, and another to capture and web stream the H.264 stream that the television studio's built in hardware encoder spits out. That takes care of the live aspect of things.

The client wants the ability to capture feeds from all four cameras, in case they want to do a better edit than the live broadcast (for DVD, Web, etc.) Also, they want to use Adobe Premiere Pro to do all of the post production.
Now to the point! I really need help figuring out what kind of machine to build that would be able to capture and compress 4 live 1080i camera feeds. I really want to save the client as much as I can, so I was planning to opt for windows instead of Mac, so I could build it myself. Im really not sure which is the more cost effective AND practical route to go. I could capture uncompressed, but Wouldn't I need a 4 drive Raid 0 array for each stream? 16 drives seems a little unpractical, to me so I was thinking of capturing into a compressed codec. Do you think the "HOT ROD" version of videoguys DIY9 (link below) would pull off such a capture? If not, do I really need a 8 core Mac? Please help!

Thanks for reading all of that and for any suggestions!

Link for DIY9: http://videoguys.com/Guide/RE/0x31051c296e1b01af049e1c31a28ffd4f/Videoguys+...


Return to posts index

Mike Squires
Re: In need of Decklink workflow advice
on Mar 8, 2012 at 2:31:11 pm

Get one of these for each camera, and the biggest SSD drive you can afford for each also:

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/hyperdeckshuttle/


Return to posts index

Robbie Brandon
Re: In need of Decklink workflow advice
on Mar 8, 2012 at 3:29:51 pm

thanks for the response! I have actually considered both the hyperdeck studio and the hyperdeck shuttle as possible solutions. however, the only compressed codec the hyperdecks currently support is DnxHD, and uncompressed just isn't practical for me. I would normally have no problem using this codec, but I read in a Adobe forum that Premiere Pro CS5.5 Does NOT support the DnxHd codec. I have considered the Ajax kia pro mini as well, but it only compresses to Apple Protest 422. Another great codec, but again not PrP CS.5.5 friendly. Surely there is a hardware solution that compresses to DVCPro HD or even AVCHD? And if there isn't, would a souped up CPU (like videoguys Diy9) and a decklink quad not do the trick?


Return to posts index


Robbie Brandon
Re: In need of Decklink workflow advice
on Mar 8, 2012 at 3:42:04 pm

thanks for the response! I have actually considered both the hyperdeck studio and the hyperdeck shuttle as possible solutions. however, the only compressed codec the hyperdecks currently support is DnxHD, and uncompressed is too impractical in this application. I would normally have no problem using this codec, but I read in a Adobe forum that Premiere Pro CS5.5 Does NOT support the DnxHd codec. I have considered the Ajax ki pro mini as well, but I only compresses to Apple Protest 422. Another great codec, but this would put me over $8000 just to record 4 cameras. that seems like a bit much to me, but maybe I'm trying to have my cake and eat it too. Surely there is a hardware solution that compresses to DVCPro HD or even AVCHD? And if there isn't, would a souped up CPU (like videoguys Diy9) and a decklink quad not do the trick? If it won't, maybe I would consider capturing in DNxHD with the hyperdeck and then converting to another codec later. however, this seems like another unnecessary step in the workflow. maybe I just don't know what I'm doing! lol


Return to posts index

Mike Squires
Re: In need of Decklink workflow advice
on Mar 8, 2012 at 3:50:38 pm

Blackmagic updated the firmware, so now it records DNxHD wrapped in a quicktime container, which Premiere Pro CS5.5 can now import correctly.


Return to posts index

Robbie Brandon
Re: In need of Decklink workflow advice
on Mar 8, 2012 at 4:37:32 pm

thanks again for the quick response. we are definitely getting somewhere now! will the DNxHD in a .mov wrapper be editable by premier pro on a Windows machine? want to try to avoid the Mac route...


Return to posts index


Mike Squires
Re: In need of Decklink workflow advice
on Mar 8, 2012 at 5:04:33 pm

Yep, I had someone send me a test file, it works perfectly under Windows and CS5.5.

If you search one here, you'll find the file if you want to test it yourself.


Return to posts index

Robbie Brandon
Re: In need of Decklink workflow advice
on Mar 8, 2012 at 11:28:26 pm

So i just spoke with Black Magic Tech support. He said that the DNxHD MXF file that the Hyperdeck encodes is NOT compatible with Adobe premiere CS5.5 for windows :( Now im a bit confused. I've dug around on several forums, but I'm seeing conflicting answers. Can anyone confirm from experience? He did say I had the option of using a Decklink Quad to capture and real-time encode the 4 uncompressed feeds into mpeg-2 at around 18Mbs. I asked him with a PC using a core i7 2600k with a 4-drive Raid 0 array would be up to such a task, and it said no problem. Do you agree? I'd love some opinions on both options. Thanks!


Return to posts index

Mike Squires
Re: In need of Decklink workflow advice
on Mar 8, 2012 at 11:32:59 pm

I don't know why he said that, because it's been confirmed it does work. I'll post some links tomorrow.


Return to posts index


Paolo Castellano
Re: In need of Decklink workflow advice
on Mar 9, 2012 at 10:32:11 am

[Robbie Brandon] "So i just spoke with Black Magic Tech support. He said that the DNxHD MXF file that the Hyperdeck encodes is NOT compatible with Adobe premiere CS5.5 for windows"

Hi,
I think there was a misunderstanding with the tech support. Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 and Studio record in DNxHD QT (.mov) container too. And it is compatible with Premiere CS 5.5 (not 5).
If you need to record into other formats, or to store files directly on the server (maybe for editing during capturing, like live multicamera non linear editing), you may consider to use the Decklink Quad and a proper application.

Best Regards,

Paolo.Castellano@ivs.it
http://www.ivsEdits.com
-----------------------
"Post Fata Resurgo"


Return to posts index

Robbie Brandon
Re: In need of Decklink workflow advice
on Mar 10, 2012 at 11:34:22 pm

could you possibly direct me to a proper software that is compatible with the decklink? it seems media express is limited to a motion jpeg compression. wouldn't I want a different/ better codec? thanks!


Return to posts index

Mike Squires
Re: In need of Decklink workflow advice
on Mar 11, 2012 at 12:21:38 am

If using Windows, you need Premiere Pro, Avid, or Sony Vegas. If Mac, the same, but adding Final Cut Pro.


Return to posts index


Robbie Brandon
Re: In need of Decklink workflow advice
on Mar 11, 2012 at 5:51:12 am

So you're saying Premier pro can capture and encode the four streams using a decklink quad? That would solve some issues! Thanks!


Return to posts index

Mike Squires
Re: In need of Decklink workflow advice
on Mar 11, 2012 at 5:35:48 pm

I don't know if it can do all four at the same time, someone else would have to answer that.


Return to posts index

Paolo Castellano
Re: In need of Decklink workflow advice
on Mar 12, 2012 at 12:45:23 am

[Robbie Brandon] "could you possibly direct me to a proper software that is compatible with the decklink? it seems media express is limited to a motion jpeg compression. wouldn't I want a different/ better codec? thanks!"

Hello Robbie,
I can suggest you ivsCapture Pro,

The main features are:
  • "Virtually" unlimited number of concurrent captures on the same PC
  • Pre-stripes files allowing editing during capture and "Advanced Live Non-Linear Multi-Camera Editing" (requires an NLE software that supports this feature)
  • Supports SD, HD, 2K sources, Digital and Analog
  • Supports Blackmagic Design Capture Devices and OHCI firewire
  • Remotes VTRs and cameras using Sony RS422 or ilink/Firewire protocols
  • Captures in MPEG2 (4:2:0 and 4:2:2) with bitrate up to 60Mbits
  • Captures in AVI: DV, DVCPRO 25, DVCPRO50, DVCPRO100 HD, Blackmagic, MJPEG, Uncompressed
  • Captures/streams in Windows Media Format (WMV)
  • Makes aspect ratio changes (16:9 to 4:3 and vice versa) and Up/down/Cross scaling during Capture
  • Adds broadcast video filters (BLUR, SHARPEN and GLOW) while capturing as well as realtime color correction (White & Black levels, saturation, etc.)
  • Allows to Overlay 32bit Graphics, Timecode, date and time , Titles during the capture
  • Works with Windows XP, Vista and Seven (32 and 64 bit versions)


*combines multicamera editing with the capability to edit and capture from multiple input (multi-angle) sources. Multi-camera programs can be edited from the live sources, that are recorded to disk (separately) allowing to make further edits and adjustments to the program after the end of recording.

Captured files can be used with Adobe Premiere and other NLEs, as well as with ivsEdits, that supports (in beta) "Advanced Live Non-Linear Multi-Camera Editing" and other broadcast features like support of FILL and KEY separated outputs and "LIVE ON TIMELINE" (user can add up to 4 LIVE sources and use them on timeline as standard video clips and use/mix them with standard video/title/audio clips)

Product web link is:
http://www.ivs.it/ENG_H/03prod/02ivs_e/ivsCapture_e.htm

Best Regards,

Paolo.Castellano@ivs.it
http://www.ivsEdits.com
-----------------------
"Post Fata Resurgo"


Return to posts index


Mike Squires
Re: In need of Decklink workflow advice
on Mar 12, 2012 at 2:06:51 am

Wow, you're prices just for capture software are kind of steep. $500 for the non-pro version, really? And no demo? Good luck with that.


Return to posts index

Paolo Castellano
Re: In need of Decklink workflow advice
on Mar 12, 2012 at 9:57:22 pm

[Mike Squires] "Wow, you're prices just for capture software are kind of steep. $500 for the non-pro version, really? And no demo? Good luck with that."

:-)
Hello Mike,
I don't know why you write these things:
a) Pro upgrade (the multi capture capability) is on special for free
b) There is a demo version (capture limited to 1 minute)
c) You can get a free trial dongle to test the software without any limitation (your local reseller will ask a small deposit that will return to you when you'll give back the dongle)

500.00USD are too much for a professional application? Do you know other software with the same specs that are cheaper? Please suggest it to me, I'm not joking.
Thanks,

Paolo.Castellano@ivs.it
http://www.ivsEdits.com
-----------------------
"Post Fata Resurgo"


Return to posts index

Mike Squires
Re: In need of Decklink workflow advice
on Mar 13, 2012 at 12:49:55 am

Paolo, ok, the pro version for $500, that's a bit more like it. I apologize, as I didn't see that listed on your website. I also didn't see where you can download the demo, I saw other software listed, but not the Capture software.

Just my opinion, but if you offered the same software, but with only one capture stream (not unlimited), that would be worth $100.

I'm wheeling and dealing, as I only need a single stream to capture, but I can't justify the $500 price. ;)

I do like the features though.


Return to posts index

Paolo Castellano
Re: In need of Decklink workflow advice
on Mar 13, 2012 at 11:39:54 pm

Hello Mike,
I'm happy that you like the features. I forgot to point out that one of the reason of the price is the support of the dps/dva capture, that was a very expansive task. For the ones who didn't use Velocity this means nothing, but for the ones who have a Velocity in their workflow it's amazing.

Paolo.Castellano@ivs.it
http://www.ivsEdits.com
-----------------------
"Post Fata Resurgo"


Return to posts index

Gene Colburn
Re: In need of Decklink workflow advice
on Mar 13, 2012 at 4:29:25 am

Questions for Paolo:

Will your capture app do a variable frame rate record? Like for different time lapse record rates? Also is there a stand alone player for the streams?

Thanks


Return to posts index

Paolo Castellano
Re: In need of Decklink workflow advice
on Mar 14, 2012 at 12:09:22 am

[Gene Colburn] "Questions for Paolo:
Will your capture app do a variable frame rate record? Like for different time lapse record rates? Also is there a stand alone player for the streams?"


Hello Gene,
good questions; it could be possible to add the timelapse (with variable timing) capture, but I'd like to understand why you'd need it, maybe there are many people needing for it, and I'm ignoring that.

For the second question (stand alone player), what kind of player are you thinking to? A player that allows to playback the streams (the ones you are capturing) on the VGA screen or on a video (SDI/YUV/HDMI) one? All on the same output or each one on a different screen?

Best Regards,

Paolo.Castellano@ivs.it
http://www.ivsEdits.com
-----------------------
"Post Fata Resurgo"


Return to posts index

Gene Colburn
Re: In need of Decklink workflow advice
on Mar 14, 2012 at 4:26:54 am

Thanks for the reply Paolo.
I have some special needs for the time lapse feature but I am sure others do as well. There are few options for time lapse recording that interface to high end capture cards. 2 gig capture limits etc. Those available are mostly older avi formatted or fat32 capture solutions. This thread tweaked my interest. Also the need for a stand alone player that would play a progressive stream on a VGA screen and allow variable speed playback would be awesome. I can find solutions in IP cam technology and H264 record formats but they all have some serious limitations. Playback speeds are incremental as 2x 4x 8x etc. Not truly a variable speed playback like on a dynamic tracking tape machine. There are also a few stand alone DDR's that perform this way but not for long format recording over a long period of time and the ability to archive. For you folks it would be more of fulfilling a market need and there may not be one.

Regards,
Gene Colburn


Return to posts index

Paolo Castellano
Re: In need of Decklink workflow advice
on Mar 15, 2012 at 10:21:04 am

Hello Gene,
thanks for the suggestions; I will discuss them with our developers and I will let you know.
Best Regards,

Paolo.Castellano@ivs.it
http://www.ivsEdits.com
-----------------------
"Post Fata Resurgo"


Return to posts index

Robbie Brandon
Re: In need of Decklink workflow advice
on Mar 16, 2012 at 4:00:24 am

Thank you all for responding! I have decided to capture using HyperDeck Shuttle 2's into DNxHD. Now I have another question for you: How can I get the data from the ssd's onto an iMac??? There are no thunderbolt ssd docks and most of the ssd docks i CAN find are esata or usb 3.0. Any ideas?


Return to posts index

Juan Salvo
Re: In need of Decklink workflow advice
on Mar 16, 2012 at 4:06:19 am

Get a sata to fw800 dock. Fastest you can do other than thunderbolt.



Return to posts index

Robbie Brandon
Re: In need of Decklink workflow advice
on Mar 16, 2012 at 4:36:08 am

what would that be? anything that supports 2.5" 6GB/s sata?


Return to posts index

Juan Salvo
Re: In need of Decklink workflow advice
on Mar 16, 2012 at 1:15:07 pm

Most open 3.5" docks will also fit 2.5" drives. So look for an open form fw800 to sata dock. Rosewill have a good one.



Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]