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ATEM 1 & HyperDeck Studio --> Audio Delay

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Carlos Morales
ATEM 1 & HyperDeck Studio --> Audio Delay
on Feb 9, 2012 at 8:26:41 pm

Hello,

I'm hoping someone can help me solve an audio/video sync issue. In a nutshell, after we go through our ATEM 1 and record onto a HyperDeck Studio, the video in the file we end up with is 6 frames too fast. So we either need to slow down the video by 6 frames or speed up the audio by 6 frames.

What should I buy to fix this?

Here is our current set-up:
1. We feed video from a Panasonic AF100 via HD-SDI to the ATEM 1
2. For the audio, our talent uses a Sennheiser EW 10 wireless mic. The mic receiver is plugged into an analog Behringer board and from there, we feed the ATEM 1 via its analog XLR inputs.
3. The output from the ATEM 1 is then piped over to a HyperDeck Studio via HDMI for recording.

Thanks,

Carlos


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Mike Squires
Re: ATEM 1 & HyperDeck Studio --> Audio Delay
on Feb 9, 2012 at 11:22:43 pm

People have had good luck with this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/280608-REG/Behringer_DEQ2496_DEQ2496_...


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Shaun Roemich
Re: ATEM 1 & HyperDeck Studio --> Audio Delay
on Feb 10, 2012 at 7:52:13 pm

I don't believe the linked Behringer does Line Delay.

The Behringer SHARK FBQ100 does.

I believe the linked device is the solution for digital audio for the ATEM TV Studio.

Big Dog - Technical Director - Switcher
Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC Canada
roaddogmedia@gmail.com


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Andreas Wojtaschek
Re: ATEM 1 & HyperDeck Studio --> Audio Delay
on Feb 10, 2012 at 9:39:01 am

The strange thing is that the audio should be faster than your video. The Atem delays your video about 1 frame if you use unsynced cameras that is about 40ms in PAL land. Easy to compensate using a simple digital delay. But if your video runs ahead this is strange and difficult. In this situation the mentioned Behringer device isn't useful for you.

What firmware do you run on your Hyperdeck? There was a firware where the Hyperdeck had issues regarding a/v sync.

Regards

Andreas

--

Entertainment Producer IHK
mindandvision


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Mike Squires
Re: ATEM 1 & HyperDeck Studio --> Audio Delay
on Feb 11, 2012 at 7:54:44 pm

As I don't own one, I can't confirm, but in the Overview, it specifically states:

"Flexible compressor/expander function with peak limiter per stereo channel as well as a stereo imager and stereo delay"


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Shaun Roemich
Re: ATEM 1 & HyperDeck Studio --> Audio Delay
on Feb 11, 2012 at 8:14:54 pm

Thanks for the correction, Mike.

For some reason when I was looking for delays for my ATEM, I went looking at Behringer and only the FBQ100 worked for me.

Perhaps it was because the the DEQ2496 "only" has 300ms of delay that I was afraid it wan't flexible enough for me (~20 frames of delay at 60P, ~10 frames at 30P/60i).

In hindsight, my delays are running at 34ms right now so I would have been fine.

Thanks for the catch and correction. Wish I would have bought that instead now. 1RU instead of 1.5RU for the Sharks...

Big Dog - Technical Director - Switcher
Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC Canada
roaddogmedia@gmail.com


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Mark Johnson
Re: ATEM 1 & HyperDeck Studio --> Audio Delay
on Feb 11, 2012 at 11:18:23 pm

We have had good luck with the Behringer Sharks, both the old and new models. Only downside is they run very hot!

There is a video up on our site showing how they work - http://www.studiotech.tv/category/studiotech-2/

Look for episode 21.

Mark


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Andreas Wojtaschek
Re: ATEM 1 & HyperDeck Studio --> Audio Delay
on Feb 12, 2012 at 5:38:24 pm

Hey guys,

I really don't understand you: Why would you want to delay the audio if the VIDEO IS TOO FAST?

That is what he's saying. Maybe I don't underand it right - but you will have no luck with an audio delay if you have to delay your video.

Regards

Andreas

--

Entertainment Producer IHK
mindandvision


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Shaun Roemich
Re: ATEM 1 & HyperDeck Studio --> Audio Delay
on Feb 12, 2012 at 6:35:12 pm

Given the path described, it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE that the video is too fast. Likely that the audio is too fast and needs to be delayed.

There is nothing in that path that would cause the audio to be delayed at all, whereas I would expect 2 to 3 frames delay of video.

Unless I'm missing something, but that setup isn't much different than mine.

One cannot "speed up" audio obviously.

To have audio SLOW 6 frames, you are talking about a delay between the wireless, audio mixer and ATEM of approximately:

100ms if 60P, 200ms if 30P/60i.

I don't see how that could possibly happen.

And that is BEFORE taking into consideration the delay caused by using the frame sync's on the ATEM instead of genlocked sources.

Big Dog - Technical Director - Switcher
Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC Canada
roaddogmedia@gmail.com


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Andreas Wojtaschek
Re: ATEM 1 & HyperDeck Studio --> Audio Delay
on Feb 12, 2012 at 8:22:20 pm

Shaun,

it is not impossible as I described earlier. There were some issues with the Hyperdeck Studio firmware, where there were massive a/v sync issues. I've had exactly the same problem: When I watched the recording that I made with the Hyperdeck STudio in DNxHD mode the audio was too slow and the video ran ahead.

That is why I asked if he's using the latest firmware for the Hyperdeck. This solved the issue for me.

Regards

Andreas

--

Entertainment Producer IHK
mindandvision


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Shaun Roemich
Re: ATEM 1 & HyperDeck Studio --> Audio Delay
on Feb 12, 2012 at 9:23:59 pm

Quite fair, Andreas. Apparently I missed your previous comment to that effect.

Unfortunately, one of my character flaws is a belief in Occam's Razor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

and therefore it was EASIER for me to believe that the OP had in error listed the audio as running slow, instead of the far more common issue of the video being delayed.

I apologize for my "arrogance" in that regard and hope it is something as simple as requiring the newest firmware.

Big Dog - Technical Director - Switcher
Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC Canada
roaddogmedia@gmail.com


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Carlos Morales
Re: ATEM 1 & HyperDeck Studio --> Audio Delay
on Feb 13, 2012 at 3:27:30 am

The video is running faster than audio. Strange. I have found tons of solutions to slow down the audio, but that will not work for us. The audio is already running too slow.

We are running the latest stable firmware on both the ATEM 1 and on the HyperDeck Studio (not the beta).

To fix it, we can bring it into Premiere and move the audio track ahead by 6 frames in post. But this fix does not help us in a live/real-time scenario.



-carlos


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Andreas Wojtaschek
Re: ATEM 1 & HyperDeck Studio --> Audio Delay
on Feb 13, 2012 at 9:42:28 am

Well,

then I think your camera produces the delay because the Atem only has 1 frame of latency when using non genlocked cameras.

You can try that by using two monitors:

1st monitor (or Ipad or similar) displays a running timecode.
2nd monitor is connected to your camera via the prefeered interface (in this situation HD-SDI). It displays the camera signal.

Record in camera both monitors framed.

Play back you video. Now you can see the latency. Actually you have to include some monitor latency in this setup as well but you get an idea on how much your camera delays the output of the video. I've cameras that produce 1 frame and others that produce 3 frames. So maybe the AF100 produces 5 frames (+1 Atem).

Maybe other users of the AF100 could chime in and answer that question.

Regards

Andreas

--

Entertainment Producer IHK
mindandvision


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Shane Duggan
Re: ATEM 1 & HyperDeck Studio --> Audio Delay
on Feb 22, 2012 at 9:00:22 am

Hi All,

We have 6 AF101's (PAL version of the AF100) and there is a video delay of approx 3 frames. I know this is a huge delay but luckily for us we have 6 so we have no issue's except we have to insert a delay between the mixer and the recorder.

But it is a video delay on the AF101, not an audio delay.

By the way the AF101 is not the right tool at all for multicamera jobs but hindsight is 20/20 and thats not what the were mainly bought for.

Shane


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Carlos Morales
Re: ATEM 1 & HyperDeck Studio --> Audio Delay
on Mar 13, 2012 at 6:10:05 pm

Thank you all!!! Based on everyone feedback I was able to solve the problem. I took the audio from wireless mic and fed it into the camera and then took the video and audio feed from the camera to the ATEM 1. The end result is dead-on accurate.

carlos


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