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XLR Audio to SDI AES/EBU on ATEM Television Studio

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Gylon Jackson
XLR Audio to SDI AES/EBU on ATEM Television Studio
on Feb 7, 2012 at 2:54:19 am

My client is a belly dancer and we are looking to set up a streaming TV studio. SO far we have a few HDMI cameras with the ATEm TV Studio. Right now my concern is getting the audio into the process.

I am looking to take audio from a basic audio mixer and run it into the ATEM Television Studio Aes/EBU in.

I am looking at getting the
Mini Converter HDMI to SDI - 295
or
Mini Converter Audio to SDI - 495

The ultimate question is can I use the HDMI to SDI and just use the audio.... this will save me 200.00
or
Does it matter if I use the HDMI to SDI. I mean I only really need the audio and I am looking to save as much money on this project as possible.


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Bob Zelin
Re: XLR Audio to SDI AES/EBU on ATEM Television Studio
on Feb 7, 2012 at 4:18:40 am

send your audio mixer into this product -
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/264903-REG/Behringer_SRC2496_ULTRAMAT...

$163 for this. It will convert your analog audio mixer into AES.

Then take the AES output and go into this -
http://www.markertek.com/Audio-Equipment/Audio-Interface/Impedance-Matching...

Now you will have the BNC AES signal that you need.

AND if you can arrange a private belly dance for me, maybe I will just give you this equipment.

Bob Zelin



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Benjamin Doyle
Re: XLR Audio to SDI AES/EBU on ATEM Television Studio
on Feb 7, 2012 at 6:19:38 pm

Will the SRC2496 connect straight to the ATEM TV switcher AES input without the impedance transformer? Say using an RCA to BNC or XLR to BNC cable without the transformer in-line?

I was reading this thread and the couldn't tell if the transformer was used in the setup or not.

Will the setup fail or should I expect problems if I'm not using a 110-75 ohm transformer? Or is the transformer just being used as a format changer (XLR to BNC)?


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Jeff Hartman
Re: XLR Audio to SDI AES/EBU on ATEM Television Studio
on Feb 7, 2012 at 1:47:04 pm

Bob's approach will indeed work, but so will using the Blackmagic Audio to SDI miniconverter. The upside of using Bob's method is that is injects the audio into the ATEM, and if you're using their software to record the ATEM's H.264 feed, it gets the audio into the recording.

There are several downsides, though. One is that some people refuse to buy Behringer products on the basis of quality and on their business practices. There are other products that convert analog audio to AES; Rane, for example, makes the very versatile and well-made ML1.

One advantage to the miniconverter is that it can be used as a standalone device: if you only need a single camera for a project, it will embed audio into the video without your needing to set up the ATEM, a multiviewer monitor, and control computer.

Another plus for the miniconverter is that it can insert four analog channels, or four AES stereo pairs, into the video; going through the ATEM limits you to one stereo pair.

Tradeoffs!

Jeff Hartman
Engineering Project Manager
Newport Television, Northeast


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Richard Crowley
Re: XLR Audio to SDI AES/EBU on ATEM Television Studio
on Feb 7, 2012 at 5:05:40 pm

You did not reveal the rest of the signal chain. Do you really NEED audio embedded into the digital video stream? What is the destination of the video from the ATEM switcher? Does it require SDI or HDMI? Or are you running analog/composite? Does the destination require embedded audio, or will it accept a separate audio source? (Such as line-level audio from your mixer?)

You can feed AES digital audio into the ATEM using a less expensive option such as the Behringer Ultramatch Pro SRC2496 (~US$150). This method has the added benefit that the ATEM will handle syncing the audio and video together. The external mini converters cannot do that. Of course, if you are sending video/audio over the internet, chances are that you audience won't even perceive an A/V sync error of a few frames. The typical performance of the internet will completely swamp that small error into insignificance.

Yeah, Behringer doesn't have the greatest reputation, but I am beginning to wonder about BMD here. Their chronic lack of even basic/minimal technical documentation significantly reduces the value of their equipment IMHO.


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Richard Crowley
Re: XLR Audio to SDI AES/EBU on ATEM Television Studio
on Feb 8, 2012 at 3:13:06 am

According to other user accounts, yes the SRC2496 SPDIF RCA output is 75 ohms and operates properly with the 75-ohm BNC input of the ATEM. Just a simple RCA to BNC cable is needed.


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Bob Zelin
Re: XLR Audio to SDI AES/EBU on ATEM Television Studio
on Feb 8, 2012 at 3:27:12 am

I resent everyone's resentment to the mention of "business practices". Everything that we buy today is "too cheap", and cannot be manufactured in the US or Western Europe because it would be "too expensive". So everyone on these forums (ALL the forums - and Quantel doens't have a forum here) is buying electronic products from slave labor or child labor - so don't you all be so "almighty" - you know that the only way to make fantastic products for $100 - $300 is if someone is suffering. Behringer does it, Foxcomm (Apple) does it - so give me a break. You want to protest - buy Quantel. No one is suffering at Quantel.

bob Zelin
(Richard - you are right - you can just take the 75 ohm RCA output and feed the ATEM - great simple discovery !).



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Jeff Hartman
Re: XLR Audio to SDI AES/EBU on ATEM Television Studio
on Feb 8, 2012 at 9:58:23 pm

[Bob Zelin] "I resent everyone's resentment to the mention of "business practices"."

Bob, I'm not sure what you assume I'm referring to -- but from your tone and wording, you're apparently thinking about cut-rate Asian outsourcing... which is an issue I did not have in mind.

Behringer has a particular history of ignoring FCC certification requirements, as well as infringing on other companies' intellectual property rights -- neither of which are necessary or characteristic of successful businesses.

-- Jeff


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Bob Zelin
Re: XLR Audio to SDI AES/EBU on ATEM Television Studio
on Feb 9, 2012 at 3:57:28 am

I assume you are refering to Behringer copying the Mackie series of mixers and speakers (which they absolutely did, and obviously, got away with).

But just like Wal-Mart - if you make the same product for 1/3 the price, we American's don't care who gets screwed, as long as we can get it dirt cheap. I know very well that a Behringer mixer won't last more than 3 years - but I keep installing them, because people want cheap.

With that said - the SRC-2496 is one of the few products that are not copied from another manufacturer - and it's cheap - and it works pretty well.

bob Zelin



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Jeff Hartman
Re: XLR Audio to SDI AES/EBU on ATEM Television Studio
on Feb 9, 2012 at 2:46:28 pm

[Bob Zelin] "I assume you are refering to Behringer copying the Mackie series of mixers and speakers (which they absolutely did, and obviously, got away with)."

Mackie... Aphex... Roland... Peavey.

[Bob Zelin] "But just like Wal-Mart - if you make the same product for 1/3 the price, we American's don't care who gets screwed, as long as we can get it dirt cheap. I know very well that a Behringer mixer won't last more than 3 years - but I keep installing them, because people want cheap."

There will always be people willing to look the other way if the price is low enough; but the number of people who refuse to do business with Behringer gives the lie to the blanket suggestion that all Americans are unprincipled accessories to intellectual theft.

What I don't understand is how people who make their living doing technical design -- and who would presumably be very upset to have their own work stolen -- would knowingly support a company with that history.

Jeff Hartman
Engineering Project Manager
Newport Television, Northeast


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Doug Fish
Re: XLR Audio to SDI AES/EBU on ATEM Television Studio
on Feb 10, 2012 at 8:42:50 pm

[Bob Zelin] "(Richard - you are right - you can just take the 75 ohm RCA output and feed the ATEM - great simple discovery !)."
Bob, Bob, Bob. Apparently you forgot about and did not return to this thread:

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/124/876876

Your response in that thread probably sold a lot of Behringer SRC2496's (including one to yours truly), as it was the first discussion of how to get sound into the ATEM TVS, and I think you gave a pretty comprehensive answer (although the XLR to BNC suggestion turned out to be needlessly complicated).

I hope that I in turn got a few people buying RCA to BNC (and hopefully other) cables from monoprice. Their quality/value ratio is off the charts.


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Benjamin Doyle
Re: XLR Audio to SDI AES/EBU on ATEM Television Studio
on Feb 9, 2012 at 6:00:55 am

Thanks Richard. The switcher and SRC2496 both arrived today and indeed a simple RCA-BNC cable worked great for connecting the two.


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Rashid Duggan
Re: XLR Audio to SDI AES/EBU on ATEM Television Studio
on Apr 21, 2012 at 6:54:10 pm

Is there configuration of the TElevision Studio that needs to be done in software to have the unit receive the digital audio signal from the Behringer? I have the unit connected using a XLR to BNC Transformer adapter and I also tried putting a RCA enc on the BNC Cable to no avail. I am not seeing audio in the black magic software.

Are there specific setting on the Behringer that have to be made? Please advise?

Thanks!


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Benjamin Doyle
Re: XLR Audio to SDI AES/EBU on ATEM Television Studio
on Apr 23, 2012 at 4:15:33 pm

According to Bob's post above, you need an Impedance Transformer to go XLR to BNC (not just a regular barrel adapter). RCA to BNC does not require an impedance transformer- just a straight adapter works fine.

Settings for the Behringer A/D converter:
  • Set the Left-side Source button to "Analog"
  • Verify audio input on the level indicators and adjust with the gain knob.
  • Set the Mode button to "A/D & D/A Conv"
  • Set the Format button to AES/EBU


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Deepak Sahasrabudhe
Re: XLR Audio to SDI AES/EBU on ATEM Television Studio
on May 9, 2012 at 9:36:53 pm

I've had success with Behringer DEQ 2496 Ultracurve pro which has XLR Left & Right Inputs and an AES /EBU stereo output and it also has an audio delay of 300ms.

I understand that 110 ohm cable is better than standard audio cable (75 ohm) so I'm awaiting delivery of 110 ohm XLR to BNC cable. In the meantime, I soldered up a short length of audio wire I had lying around and it sounds fine.


Incidentally, for my setup the DEQ 2496 audio delay appears to be 14 frames -- more than the 300ms (10 frames at 30fps) audio delay built into the Behringer DEQ2496, so I'm borrowing a Rane audio delay to see if that will get it into sync. I'm running 2 Canon HM40s and a Canon XA10 - picture is excellent -- image quality from all 3 cameras is very similar.



I found aud


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Gylon Jackson
Re: XLR Audio to SDI AES/EBU on ATEM Television Studio
on Aug 1, 2012 at 8:51:31 am

Ok finally got all this together. Thanks for all the help and guidance from everyone. Will post a video for everyone to see in a week or so.

Biggest over all challenges...
Connecting the ATEM via the router so I could use it on the network
Getting the HDMI signal over anything longer than about 25 feet... 1 run was about 40', other 2were about 30'

DA STUFF...
Imac 3.4 i7 16gb ram
Samsung Sync master Ex2220 (second monitor to the MAC)
ATEM Black Magic
Viewsonic LED HDMI 1080p VS13814
1 Panasonic GH2
3 Gopros HD2
3 HDMI via cat5 connections (could not run HDMI over 50 Cables)
Behringer Ultra Match SRC 2496
Netgear Router WGR61
Yamaha mg 102c Mixing Console
Samson CT7 Lavalier Mic

RCA to BNC (cheap and works awesome)
Audio Source Power Amp with 2 polk audio speakers connected 2 sony bookshelf speakers also so I could fill the dance studio with sound.


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John Uriarte
Re: XLR Audio to SDI AES/EBU on ATEM Television Studio
on Jan 12, 2013 at 8:35:41 pm

Thank you to everyone for giving plenty of info on this toppic. I am in the same situation. The only part I am not sure about is the part where the audio goes out from the mixer and into the delayer? The mixer has right and left outs and the delayer has only one xlr in. What out on the mixer do I use to go into the delayer? Do I go from the mixer to the SRC2496 then to the delayer?

I am using 3 wireless mics going into my mixer, small mackie, and only want to buy one delayer like the behringer shark FBQ100 to use with the Behringer ULTRAMATCH PRO SRC2496

John Uriarte


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Dmitriy Burx
Re: XLR Audio to SDI AES/EBU on ATEM Television Studio
on Aug 24, 2013 at 10:32:52 am

Hi.
I have some questions (sorry for bad english)

- About latency of Behringer: is it possible to control it (like drivers in windows\mac, when you can to change latency or buffer from 1 ms to bigger value) or it fixed (in your case 300ms)?

- Is it possible to use sound-card of you PC\Mac, when you make broadcast by Atem Television Studio? In broadcast\capture software specify audio input from your audio-card (external or even built-in card), connect to it your analog device (mic, or mixer console).. What problems with this method?


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Deepak Sahasrabudhe
Re: XLR Audio to SDI AES/EBU on ATEM Television Studio
on Aug 24, 2013 at 4:17:09 pm

Yes the latency in the Behringer is variable.

In my setup, I use the USB 2.0 output of TVstudio to send H264 compressed video and audio to the computer where streaming software (MX Light) recognizes the signal and connects to a streaming platform. I don't monitor audio at this point because audio and video is delayed so I don't know if I could get audio output via system card, but I probably could. Another person monitors the live feed remotely and lets me know if there are any issues with signal by telephone... we have not had any issues with audio quality so far.

I understand that the audio could be tapped out from the HD-SDI or HDMI outputs, but I have not had any need to do that so far.

Hope this helps.


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Dan Strine
Re: XLR Audio to SDI AES/EBU on ATEM Television Studio
on Sep 9, 2013 at 4:36:44 pm

I am new to using the ATEM TV Studio and have been using external audio for the three of four events that we have covered. I wanted to know if I could forgo the behringer and just use a mixer with a simple aes/ebu converter such as http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/407747-REG/neutrik_naditbnc_f_aes_ebu...


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Benjamin Doyle
Re: XLR Audio to SDI AES/EBU on ATEM Television Studio
on Sep 9, 2013 at 8:42:35 pm

If your mixer has AES digital out, then yes- you just need the converter. The Behringer is necessary when using an analog audio workflow.


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