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ATEM Television Studio vs ATEM 1 M/E Production Switcher

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Jonathan Zemmer
ATEM Television Studio vs ATEM 1 M/E Production Switcher
on Aug 19, 2011 at 3:44:25 pm

We are considering purchasing the ATEM TV studio. But we have several questions that I haven't been able to find answers to yet. Any input would be deeply appreciated.

1. We would like to have a Apple system where we use an apple computer to control the switcher and capture program out for encoding. However with the USB 3 requirement for the Media express it seems that BDM is moving away from apple. At least for their switchers. Should we be considering a Windows PC system instead, and just use apple for our Post production?

2. I delay we would like to capture all (or at least have this ability) video feeds so that we can go back and fine tune any mistakes made in the live switch. I am not sure if this is possible. If it is can someone help guide me in what I would need to make this happen.

3. We had initially thought we would bet the ATEM-1 but now we are strongly leaning toward the ATEM TV studio. Is that wise?

Thanks

Jonathan


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Bob Zelin
Re: ATEM Television Studio vs ATEM 1 M/E Production Switcher
on Aug 20, 2011 at 4:26:47 pm

1. We would like to have a Apple system where we use an apple computer to control the switcher and capture program out for encoding. However with the USB 3 requirement for the Media express it seems that BDM is moving away from apple. At least for their switchers. Should we be considering a Windows PC system instead, and just use apple for our Post production?

REPLY - oh, stop being a baby. Go buy the $345 Blackmagic HyperDeck Shuttle, record your shows saftely on this inexpensive external recorder, and be done with it. This way, you are all MAC, no Win PC, and no aggrivation. And it's cheap. And yes, it works great.


2. I delay we would like to capture all (or at least have this ability) video feeds so that we can go back and fine tune any mistakes made in the live switch. I am not sure if this is possible. If it is can someone help guide me in what I would need to make this happen.

REPLY - you want to capture ISO feeds of all the cameras. The ATEM, or any switcher, including $200,000 switchers from GVG and Sony do not do this. In the hi end, you use an EVS recorder, in the low end you use Teletstream Pipellines, or Softron Software with a Blackmagic Quad Card to capture 4 streams at once. If you think that you are going to capture 4+ streams with a single MAC and a $2500 piece of Blackamgic hardware that is your switcher, you are in dreamland. It's an absolute miracle that the ATEM is priced the way it is - and you want even more. NO, you are not getting built in iso recordings. And even if you say "ok ok - I will buy the Softron software and Decklink QUAD card" - you still need a 12 core Mac Pro and a big drive array to accomplish this. And this is the CHEAP way to accomplish this. Look into Telestream Pipelines (10 grand for 2 channels) or the insanely expensive EVS recorders. Then you will appreciate all of this.



3. We had initially thought we would bet the ATEM-1 but now we are strongly leaning toward the ATEM TV studio. Is that wise?

REPLY - I have no idea of what your requirements are. Do you need less inputs. You do understand that when you spend $995 for an ATEM TV Studio, you still have tons of money to spend on a computer, LCD displays, a recorder (or multiple recorders), cameras, tripods, intercoms, mics, etc, etc, etc, etc (lights). You don't get a complete TV studio for $995, just like the old apple ad that said "the $50,000 editing system, now $999" - the FCP software was $999 - how would you use this software without a computer, monitors, drives, audio gear, etc.

Bob Zelin



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Jonathan Zemmer
Re: ATEM Television Studio vs ATEM 1 M/E Production Switcher
on Aug 21, 2011 at 1:59:14 am

Bob, thanks for waking me from my dreamland post. I have been asking for a budget to create a live switch system for over 7 years and now that I actually have a budget, a very small one at that, I was easily getting carried away into a dreamland of my perfect production world….

Back to reality…We have roughly 9k to purchase all equipment needed for broadcasting our events and services to an overflow room while recording these events for DVD mastering and vodcast. This is for a church ministry, so unfortunately 9k is all I have.

Its not a lot, but at least its something…. I am just trying to decided how best to spend this money given my limited budget.

BMD seemed like the logical choice. We are planning on buying two cheep Canon cameras(Canon VIXIA HF R21 Flash Memory Camcorder ), tripods, post production computer, switcher, and several other minor components needed to make the system work.

So that brings me back to the switcher question. ATEM Television Studio OR ATEM 1 M/E Production Switcher

Needs:
1. Broadcast live feed from switcher to overflow room. This signal does not necessarily need to be in HD. ( In fact the room overflow room layout lends itself better for a 4:3 output. Although I would prefer to broadcast an HD picture)
2. Capture the program out to a hard disk

We will never have the need for more than 3 inputs.

It seems to me that given our need, the TV Studio will work fine. The thing I am unsure of is the media capture from the switcher. I am concerned about having a MAC system that controls the switcher if it can't also capture the program out. It almost seems that we should have Windows based system for the switcher and capture and use the mac stickily for post production.

Do you agree?

Thanks!

Jonathan Zemmer


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Bob Zelin
Re: ATEM Television Studio vs ATEM 1 M/E Production Switcher
on Aug 22, 2011 at 1:24:46 am

Jonathan,
this is the spec for your camera -
http://usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/camcorders/consumer_camcorders/...

it has an mini HDMI output. The ATEM switchers have SOME HDMI inputs. This camera also has Analog CAV outputs, which if you decide to use, will have to be converted to HD-SDI with a $495 mini converter from Blackmagic. I do not know if the HDMI output is a "clean output" (no menus from the Canon camera). All of these are the little variables that will determine if you can or cannot use this camera for your production.

Bob Zelin



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Scott Francis
Re: ATEM Television Studio vs ATEM 1 M/E Production Switcher
on Aug 21, 2011 at 3:45:33 am

Bob...I must say your reply seemed a bit harsh. A lot of people on these forums are asking questions that are not out of the ordinary, or they may be people that are new or not from the old school or to the "pro" level of video editing you are. There may be ways around buy $200,000 gear to capture all the streams. (Like perhaps getting multiple H.264 Pro's and an ATEM. have an HDMI splitter, send one to the ATEM and another to the H.264 PRO and that would give you a backup in AVCHD)....just saying...
I have have read two of your replies lately and they have seemed a bit harsh....we are here to learn, not be berated for asking questions, even if it teaches us something. I have appreciated some of your posts over the past months, but remember, some of us are small business owners and newbies growing, and learning, by asking questions...and not old pros like yourself...
Thanks for listening,

Scott Francis
Mind's Eye Audio/Video Productions


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Bob Zelin
Re: ATEM Television Studio vs ATEM 1 M/E Production Switcher
on Aug 21, 2011 at 2:14:43 pm

$9000 is plenty of money to build your system. To "berate you" because you are unable or unwillling
to buy a $345 Blackmagic video recorder is not unreasonable to me. If you dont own a car - even a clunker - you can't run your own taxi business. If you can't afford any tools, you can't do plumbing, home repair, or yard work as a business. It means that you should find a job.

$9000 is plenty of money. If you have a computer (MAC or PC) you can run the ATEM switcher for $995.
And then you DO NOT need another PC or MAC (which costs money) - because you can buy a stand alone recorder from Blackmagic for $345, to record your show. If that is not cheap, then you should not be in business, and you should not be involved in doing this.

I am not interested in helping hobbists make fun videos. I like helping and encouraging professionals - even if you are pro with no money - because even with no money, you can scrounge around to get some money to build a system - and this gentlemen has $9000 - plenty to do exactly what he wants to do.
The ATEM is an HD Product with a SD-SDI downconvert out. You can spend another $495 to convert this to analog composite and put this on any old TV in your "overflow room".

I grew up in a poor home - my father never made more than $14,000 a year - and somehow I found a way to learn to play musical instruments, get some tools, learn electronics and computers. And as we all see, there are plenty of poor kids in the getto that have aquired the ability to learn how to compose music, record that mustic, and get it out there into clubs - and it was not accomplished from mugging people. It was done because this is what you do when you have no money and you want to succeed - you make it happen.

Blackmagic is that very company giving people with very little money the ability to accomplish these things. The ATEM is an amazing product that will do exactly what you want. The HyperDeckShuttle is incredible at $345. If you simply can't afford this, then you should not buy it , and GET A JOB and work for someone else. Hi end professionals will not buy this equipment, but struggling PROFESSIONALS that will scrape their money together WILL buy this equipment, will make excellent products, and will succeed.

I have no problem with my attitude when it comes to this matter.

Bob Zelin



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Sam Cole
Re: ATEM Television Studio vs ATEM 1 M/E Production Switcher
on Aug 22, 2011 at 12:25:42 am

. . . if the camera's you are using have recording facilities then there is your 'iso' requirements.

When we do multicam events we use (mainly) EX1/EX3 camera's into the ATEM and also put them into record as iso's. Then we have a runner go around during the shows and hot swap the memory cards as they fill up.

Sam Cole
On line Mastering Facility
FCP, Avid, Adobe
Sydney, Australia


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Doug Fish
Re: ATEM Television Studio vs ATEM 1 M/E Production Switcher
on Aug 22, 2011 at 2:49:11 am

Jonathan, you are close to where I'm at, though I might be a little farther along, and I'm a PC guy. I started from scratch in March, and right now, I'm filming the service with a single camera, waiting for the ATEM Television Studio, which I have on pre-order. My budget is $6,000.00, which I will fall into comfortably with a 3 camera setup.

I chose Panasonic camcorders, the TM900K for the main camera and the SD800K for my second and third cameras. The TM900K will be the only camera that is manned, the other two will be mounted and be used mainly for wide shots (though they can be zoomed with the remote control), the idea being I can cut to them to vary the shot and give the main camera the opportunity to zoom or re-set upon a different subject if necessary.

One thing you should be thinking about is sound. The ATEM's don't get their sound via HDMI, and the ATEM Television studio requires an unusual digital sound interface to mate it with the video. Bob led me to the Behringer Ultramatch Pro in a previous thread to accomplish this from our current analog soundboard. The 1/ME, however, will take analog.

Bob can be as cantankerous as he likes, as long as he is providing answers to us neophytes! Personally, I think Bob is witnessing this revolution in the video industry where professional features that used to carry enormous price tags are now in products that are cost-wise within reach of just about anyone, and he can't believe us noobs are fretting $200 here or $500 there.

When I started doing research on putting this together for my church 8-10 months ago, I came across turnkey solutions in the range of $18,000 to $25,000. My goal was to provide 90% of what those systems could do for 25% of the cost. I'm not done yet, but the ATEM Television Studio should help me reach that goal.

How far away is the overflow room from your command center? If it is close enough, you can go wired, but if you can get a strong wireless signal from your location to the overflow room, you could try using VLC or Microsoft Expressions to deliver a signal to the overflow room, if you are OK with ~20 second delay.


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Sungil Hong
Re: ATEM Television Studio vs ATEM 1 M/E Production Switcher
on May 10, 2012 at 2:18:01 am

I just need to ask one question; how does the panasonic camcorders work? I mean, I plan to put it on the wall and want to use it for 4 or 5 hours without stopping. Does the machine continue to work even though there is no input, as long as it has AC power? Please reply to me through my email, learnserve AT gmail DOT com, if you could. I work as a pastor but my church recently purchased ATEM TV, and I need to know eagerly, since our old Sony V1U shows blue screen too often unless we don't record into miniDV tape. (And so I need to change the tape or rewind it then record again every one hour.)


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Doug Fish
Re: ATEM Television Studio vs ATEM 1 M/E Production Switcher
on May 10, 2012 at 3:20:31 am

There's a setting you change that prevents the camera from shutting down automatically after being idle for a certain period of time (energy saver mode?). Turn off that function, and the Panasonic cameras operate indefinitely, no need to make it record to keep it active.

One problem I've found though: I assumed I would be able to just turn on the camera with the remote once mounted. Nope. If you shut it down with the remote it will respond to the remote for 36 hours; but after 36 hours, it will no longer respond to the remote and you must turn it on using the power button on the camera. Unfortunately, there is no setting to change that. So make sure your camera can still be reached after you mount it!


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Sungil Hong
Re: ATEM Television Studio vs ATEM 1 M/E Production Switcher
on May 10, 2012 at 4:26:15 am

Thanks, Doug!
Your reply has helped me greatly!

I decided to buy v700. If remote control doesn't help much, then 20x zoom and low light performance matter. Also price is much better.

We also recently purchased GH2, but I don't think it's great. With 45-200mm zoom lens, auto focus doesn't work well; when I turn it on, I have to change zoom a little bit to make auto focus work. It's very not convenient. Also as of now, I am not sure if I can reduce exposure while maintaining clean HDMI output. I will try tomorrow.

I wonder if v700 needs sd card for clean HDMI output... I will see.


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Garry Genser
Re: ATEM Television Studio vs ATEM 1 M/E Production Switcher
on Oct 15, 2012 at 1:21:04 am

I am deciding between the studio pro or production switcher. Could someone tell me if there are any other reasons to prefer than the production switcher other than it including analog sound in and having several more video inputs I don't really need more than four video inputs, but I do need the analog sound in. I can get the sound in with the ultramatch pro for much cheaper than the more expensive blackmagic switcher. What a great forum. Thank you!
Garry


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Erik Pederstuen
Re: ATEM Television Studio vs ATEM 1 M/E Production Switcher
on Oct 17, 2012 at 6:38:50 pm

Hey Doug, I am trying to do something similar for my church. We currently are recording everything with outdated analog equipment which is cheap but ends up with low res videos. Have you been using the BMD ATEM switcher for switching and recording services?


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Juan Cardona
Re: ATEM Television Studio vs ATEM 1 M/E Production Switcher
on Nov 6, 2012 at 6:35:13 pm

hello, i buy a atem television studio and tried to install it on a pc without success, should i buy a mac and what kin?


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Mike Ramirez
Re: ATEM Television Studio vs ATEM 1 M/E Production Switcher
on Apr 16, 2013 at 11:34:45 pm

Your PC must be running at least windows 7 64 bit, so at least an i3 which you can get for $300 to $500. I use a lenovo with a i5 processor.
and hdmi to component adapters with audio inputs to get sound into the atem, don't forget to get an audio delay like the "lipsync corrector" from av tools or sescom to fix the audio delay. I found this method because we needed to use the hdmi to component and component to hdmi adapters for our long (50 ft)cable runs

Mike


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