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ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?

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Doug Fish
ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Jul 3, 2011 at 6:52:21 pm

I worked out a proposal for our Church to put together a Video Ministry, and now we are in the early stages of acquiring the equipment. I've built the computer (I'm a PC guy), purchased one BM Intensity Pro card to begin working things out, and now this ATEM Television Studio looks like a much better solution that isn't going to tax my CPU to the high heavens inputting 3 cameras with VidBlaster. Best of all, I can stay within my budget. So I'm pretty sure I'm going to change course, drop VidBlaster and the two additional BM Intensity Pro cards I planned to get, and make this our solution.

What I'm having difficulty with wrapping my brain around is that AES/EBU BNC Input for the Audio. We have a 15-year old analog sound board that I planned to take the sound from--simply connect a 1/8" stereo plug out from the CD recorder and in to the computer's line in, and a DI Box if needed, since our solution was a software-based solution. I realize I can still do that downstream, and that may be the solution in the end, but is there some way to convert the analog out from the soundboard to the digital BNC in on the ATEM Television Studio that is cost-effective? I'm assuming this ATEM won't ship with any breakout cable for this input.

And as an aside, why did they go with this particular input in the first place? Seems to be a highly technical input for a product that is supposed to bring production to the masses.


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Bob Zelin
Re: ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Jul 4, 2011 at 5:01:21 pm

If you choose the ATEM 1 M/E ($2499), it has analog audio inputs. Blackmagic is trying to give you the most "bang for the buck", and $995 is unheard of for a professional video switcher. It's amazing that they are giving you audio input for embedding at all ! But it's cheap to convert analog to AES. You will need TWO pieces -
an Analog to Digital converter, and an XLR to BNC impediance transformer -

BNC is the industry standard for broadcast video, but not for pro audio. Blackmagic is in the VIDEO biz, not the audio biz. So being in the video biz, you have to know the correct pieces to make this happen. Now, Blackmagic does make an Audio to SDI converter, but I know that you want to spend the LEAST AMOUNT POSSIBLE to make this happen - so this is what you need -

1) you need an audio analog to digital converter -
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/264903-REG/Behringer_ULTRAMATCH_PRO_S...

this is the Behringer SRC-2496 A/D converter. It's $163. This will give you an XLR AES/EBU output with channel 1 and channel 2 on it.
OK, now you need to convert this to BNC -

2)
http://www.markertek.com/Audio-Equipment/Audio-Interface/Impedance-Matching...

This is an XLR to BNC impedance transformer, which will plug into the Blackmagic. It's $17 bucks.

Now you are saying - why couldn't they just put two analog inputs on this damn thing. They do - on the 1ME and 2ME models. Come on, they are charging $995 for this - isn't this cheap enough ?

ALSO - there is a Balckamgic solution - you can buy the Blackamgic Audio to SDI converter (more money $495) and take the output of the switcher, send it into the Audio to SDI converter, and take the analog audio of your mixer and go into the 1/4" inputs of this converter, and your final output will have SDI with embedded audio on it - but I know you - you want to spend the LEASE AMOUNT OF MONEY possible - so the solution I have just given you for under $200 will do exactly what you want.

Now, stop your whining and get back to work.

Bob Zelin



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Doug Fish
Re: ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Jul 4, 2011 at 8:47:49 pm

Thank you very much for the very detailed response. We don't plan to internet stream the output anytime soon, so I will just send the program output to the intensity pro card and mate the audio with the video there in media express. If we want to down the line, I have a solution, thanks to you.


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Doug Fish
Re: ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Jul 11, 2011 at 2:14:39 am

Bob, I think my budget will allow this, so I've been doing my due diligence. Since the Behringer SCR2496 can send an AES/EBU signal out of any of the digital outs, wouldn't the best (and cheapest, of course) route be to send the AES/EBU signal out of the RCA digital out (75 ohms, and unbalanced--just what the ATEM calls for) via a RCA to BNC cable like this one?

Monoprice 3' RCA male to BNC male cable

Or am I missing some part of the equation?


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Doug Fish
Re: ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Oct 6, 2011 at 3:39:51 am

After finally receiving my ATEM Television Studio, I can happily report that the above cable from monoprice works fine to deliver the sound from the RCA digital out on the SRC2496 to the BNC in on the ATEM Television Studio in the AES/EBU format.


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Ratu Ratu
Re: ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Dec 8, 2011 at 8:25:26 pm

Hi Doug

I'm interested in getting the ATEM Tele Studio but I have a couple of questions about the audio side.

1.Do you have any problems with audio delay when coming into the video switcher (Via SRC2496/cable connector)? If yes, how are you dealing with this? I watched studiotechtv on youtube and Mark was using a
Behringer FBQ 100 Shark Feed Back to solve audio delay problems.

2. With the RCA to AES/EBU connector, is this coming into the video switcher as mono or stereo?
Cheers
Ratu


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Doug Fish
Re: ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Dec 8, 2011 at 11:45:48 pm

1. The question is not whether you will have audio delay and video delay; you will. The right question is how much delay, and how well they match up. In most circumstances, video delay will be greater than audio delay, since the data that needs to be processed is much, much greater.

I am currently feeding the ATEM TVS with 2 cameras and 1 computer, all via HDMI. The video *might* lag slightly behind the audio feed, but unless you are looking hard for it it is unnoticeable.

Delay is added whenever you have to convert/process an audio or video signal. Since people are using ATEM mini-converters and the built-in analog to digital converters of the 1 M/E, they are creating more lag in the video. That's why I'm keeping all my inputs as HDMI. I imagine the guys over at studiotechtv were mixing their inputs, which caused video delay. I thought I might need to correct video delay in my setup, but it hasn't been a problem.

My problem of late has been that the mp4 that the ATEM TVS produces will create a file that is synced; I can create a smaller file to upload to vimeo via Adobe Premiere Elements that is synced; but when I upload it, when it is transcoded by vimeo the audio and video are no longer in time. The reason it does this is a little beyond my understanding, but I think I've resolved this by splicing the file using avidemux, which caused the audio and video de-sync to manifest itself, then adding a half-second delay to the audio to get it back in sync. I'll link the uploaded file in a little bit.

2. Stereo.


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Doug Fish
Re: ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Dec 9, 2011 at 2:01:02 am

Here's our latest sermon. Keep in mind, we are learning, and I didn't have a cameraman for the first 15 minutes or so, so it's a wide shot. Also, this doesn't demonstrate the sync since I had to manipulate the source file with avidemux to keep it from getting unsynced when it is transcoded by vimeo. But I promise you the source video was in sync, or darn close to it!

Sermon Video


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Camden Bucey
Re: ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Jan 23, 2012 at 4:19:36 pm

Doug, I purchased a Behringer SRC2496 to do the same thing with my ATEM TV Production Studio. I have both a Canare impedance transformer for the XLR output and an RCA to BNC cable adapter. I can't get either to work. What settings are you using on the SRC2496 to produce output that the ATEM expects?


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Doug Fish
Re: ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Jan 23, 2012 at 4:40:58 pm

It's at church, I'm at home, so I can't tell you, but I know there is some discussion of the correct settings on the web.

I'm assuming the audio in tests correctly, you can hear music into the SRC2496?

I just found the discussion, see if this helps: Review discussion here


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Camden Bucey
Re: ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Jan 23, 2012 at 4:44:20 pm

Yes, I'm getting levels on the SRC2496 just fine and hear everything in the headphones. I am not, however, able to change the clock or sample rate settings on the digital side of things. The clock option is on PLL Lock and I'm unable to change it. No lights are lit up for the sample rate either. I believe the ATEM requires 48kHz in.

Are you using the internal clock or do you have an external word clock?

Thanks for the response.


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Doug Fish
Re: ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Jan 23, 2012 at 5:50:32 pm

I use the internal clock.

I believe both PLL Lock and Internal should be lit if you are us ing internal clock.

Truthfully, this has been a "set it and forget it" thing for me. Once I figured out how to get sound in, I have not touched it again besides the power switch and a little gain adjustment. I won't be back to church to verify the settings until Wednesday.

In the meantime, this is what I *think* they are, from left to right:
Source: Analog In
Source: Shouldn't matter, this controls digital input, which you are not using (I assume)
Mode: A/D and D/A Conv.
Sample Rate: 48khz
Clock: PLL Lock, Internal
Format: AES/EBU
Word Length: 24 bit
Dither: LED light on (I would try both ways, this should be a quality adustment
Emph LED: LED light off
Copy: Both Lights Off


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Camden Bucey
Re: ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Jan 23, 2012 at 6:40:15 pm

Thanks Doug - I'm fairly certain my unit is defective. I'm requesting a replacement.


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Doug Fish
Re: ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Jan 23, 2012 at 7:22:06 pm

I thought that might be the case when you said your unit wasn't responding to button presses.

Although this product is somewhat of an exception, Behringer is not known for quality. I've read reviews of this product where people had problems, opened them up and fixed the problem themselves (a wire was loose or something similar).

Thanks for giving me something to do to take my mind off the fever, aches and chills since I stayed home sick today.


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Camden Bucey
Re: ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Jan 23, 2012 at 8:07:29 pm

Thanks again. It's a shame there isn't a competitor in the ballpark. I'll let you know if the replacement fixed the problem.


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Camden Bucey
Re: ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 9:38:31 pm

My Behringer SRC2496 was indeed defective. I received a replacement and it worked without any trouble.


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roger oliveira
Re: ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Feb 6, 2012 at 5:14:19 pm

Hi Guys.
I'm thinking of pluging a SPDIF ( RCA coaxial cable ) from my audio interface ( M-Audio ) straight to the ATEM TS with a BNC adapter.
I just can't find the Behringer interface with XLR (AES/EBU ) outputs here in Brazil.

The thing is I heard that many people are experiencing out synched audio.

Does anyone know anything about it?


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Mikhail Cherchenko
Re: ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Dec 22, 2011 at 7:58:42 am

I came across this "Unbalanced XLR Male to BNC Male Cable XLRM-BNC-XX" wondering if it will work with the Behringer ULTRAMATCH PRO SRC2496 setup, thanks!


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Doug Fish
Re: ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Dec 22, 2011 at 1:03:12 pm

No expert here, just a guy who has had to learn a little. But I think the Digital XLR output is 110 ohms, and the ATEM expects 75 ohms.

I have no idea how that impedance mismatch or the "unbalanced" characteristic of the XLR cable will affect the transmission of the digital signal or the resulting sound. Can you experiment for us and find out?


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Mikhail Cherchenko
Re: ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 5:56:27 pm

Tested, the "Unbalanced XLR Male to BNC Male Cable XLRM-BNC-XX" does work with the Behringer ULTRAMATCH PRO SRC2496 setup. Quality is good, no audio/video latency.


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Doug Fish
Re: ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Jan 25, 2012 at 3:39:31 am

Camden, good to hear you've got it all straightened out. Most frustrating thing is to know what you are doing should work, but you can't figure out. The last thing you would figure is for the unit to be defective right out of the box.

Mikhail, thanks for increasing the knowledge about what works to bring sound to the ATEM TVS.


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Guy Rendon
Re: ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Jul 25, 2012 at 2:52:46 pm

I am using the ATEM TV Studio but without the audio. I ordered the Behringer SRC-2496 but this is somehow a popular model and wont be available up until September.

My configuration is not using the sound from the ATEM TV Studio and I use a separate 12-input audio mixer instead; which I do have already. The analog audio output is then connected to an audio delay device and then into an Intensity Pro capture card installed on a MacPro. I used the ATEM TV Studio's HDMI program output as my video source for the Intensity Pro video capture.

The basic configuration on my MacPro only allows NTSC capture so I upgraded my memory to 16GB and that fixed that problem. I can capture in any format now.

My next project would be to purchase the HyperDeck Studio so that I don't have to drag the heavy MacPro to my location shoot.


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Mario Rodriguez
Re: ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Sep 15, 2012 at 11:03:18 am

Or you could just buy this

http://www.thomann.de/gb/tascam_us144mk2.htm

A portable converter with XLR, Jacks, USB and digital outputs for just 155 €


Cheers :)
Mario


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Jerry Suarez
Re: ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Aug 8, 2013 at 8:38:24 pm

Hi, i'm having trouble with the audio out from the behringer too. The RCA digital output of the ultra match pro do not sends any signal to the ATEM TV Studio, i used a digital RCA cable with a simple RCA-BNC adapter.. any help?

RCA (AES format) output is 75ohms same as the ATEM audio input


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Leonard Teo
Re: ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Jan 13, 2012 at 9:56:04 pm

Hey Doug,

We're doing a very similar setup (you responded to another one of my threads) at Peoples Church in Montreal (http://www.peoplesmontreal.org). We're having a lot of issues with the audio with this exact same problem.

We're very strongly considering getting the Behringer to do the A/D conversion. Our concern is in the audio delay and if we would need to invest in additional equipment to synchronize the audio and video. Or if it's all too hard, to just get the ATEM M1/E and get it over and done with (though that's a whole other issue with getting additional budget, etc).

What has your experience been with using the ATEM TVS with the Behringer SRC2496 -- are you experiencing really noticeable synchronization issues with the video and audio?

Thanks in advance,

Leo


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Doug Fish
Re: ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Jan 13, 2012 at 10:25:30 pm

1) I have no problem with the live remote locations, they are in sync (or close enough that I can't tell), so the sync for the live feed has been a non-issue.

2) I have, however, had all kinds of problems with the mp4 produced by the ATEM TVS:
--Cannot parse the mp4 without losing sync;
--An mp4 that appears to be in perfect sync becomes out of sync when uploaded (transcoded) to vimeo
--Last week, the mp4 was actually out of sync by 4 seconds.

I have had to take into account these mp4 issues in my workflow and solve post-production using Adobe Premiere Elements 9 by re-aligning the audio and converting to wmv.

Here's the fixed file from last week, to give you some idea of quality it can produce. This is recorded in 720p, 29.97 FPS, 5 Mbps.




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John Fickling
Re: ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Feb 7, 2012 at 11:20:12 am

Doug,

Your recording sample looks smart

You might try the later switcher download v2.8 recently out. It uses different record programme much easier to record from within the switcher window.

This may fix your problem of keeping the sound synchronized when recording

Appleboy
End time Videos
New Zealand


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Doug Fish
Re: ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Feb 8, 2012 at 11:42:11 pm

John, I downloaded the 2.8 update last week. The 4-second video to audio delay was an aberration which hasn't occurred again. Nonetheless, I do get about a 3-4 frame delay in my estimation between the sound and the video. I could fix it, but it's an acceptable delay--it's not perceptible to most.

I didn't do anything to the sync in this week's video, and I'd like to hear opinions. Do you notice the delay? Would you notice the delay if you weren't looking for it? See the link below:



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John Fickling
Re: ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Feb 9, 2012 at 10:28:08 am

Hello Doug,
I looked at your recording. Good, I find the sound very acceptable as there is only 1 frame delay in the ATEM, I know what 4 frames looks like. You have to look very hard to see there is a slight delay that you and I know about. Well done.
How have you found v2.8 to use? My system is still in construction, It will be a mobile unit in the back of my van.


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Doug Fish
Re: ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Feb 10, 2012 at 4:10:52 am

Thanks for the feedback, John. I know I have had to move the audio back 4 frames to get sync in the past, but you're right, that particular video is barely off sync.

I've been using the ATEM TVS to record for about 3 months now, and I haven't seen much rhyme or reason in the amount of delay that ends up in my video. I'd get a device to delay the audio, but I don't know how much is necessary on any given Sunday, so I'll continue to correct if necessary in post. Perhaps with 2.8 there will be some continuity.

Other than that, however, the ATEM TVS has been a wonderful piece of equipment, and very reliable, too. Amazing what $1K will get you these days. Since we began recording in August, I've only had one Sunday where we couldn't deliver a recording of the sermon, and that was before we were even using the ATEM TVS. My camera operator confused the headphone and audio in jacks on the camera, so we didn't get sound that week. Didn't notice until the service was over.

Used 2.8 for the first time last week. It is very convenient to record from the software control panel. I believe that's the extent of what changed from 2.7 to 2.8.


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timothy chew
Re: ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Feb 20, 2012 at 2:00:31 pm

I am just wondering .. how is the latency problem
I know u can put a delayer for recording

but if for live consert ... How do we provide
a out of sync video to the TV wall

And how do u guys pull your camera using HDMI
for this Atem

So do 2.8 solve the video delay problem

since audio is from the PA for live consert
and video go ATEM and when it goes to the TV screen will it delay

I am using osprey 460e and vidblaster I have this problem
Out of Sync ..

I think PC SEG is not for Live only record and streaming

Tim


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Doug Fish
Re: ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Feb 20, 2012 at 5:50:55 pm

Live remote feeds have never been a problem for me in terms of A/V sync. It is in the recording that I have had problems in the past. I will say I have not had any issues with A/V Sync in the recordings over the past month since updating to 2.8.

I can't say definitively that your A/V sync will be better, as that depends on what the video has to do to get from your camera to the ATEM and then from the ATEM to the video display--any conversion of the signal along the path it travels from camera to display will cause some amount of delay. All things being equal, however, I would say you will be much closer to sync using ATEM than your current Vidblaster setup.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "pull your camera using HDMI." If you mean how do we connect to the camera using HDMI, the cameras I use have a native mini-HDMI output which makes direct connection to the HDMI inputs of the ATEM simple. Remember, any converters you use will add delay, and since you are using the Osprey, I assume you are using analog composite, which would have to be converted to feed into the ATEM. I would recommend trying some cameras with native HDMI out instead.

Here's our recording from yesterday:


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timothy chew
Re: ATEM Television Studio: AES/EBU BNC Input from Analog Sound Board?
on Feb 22, 2012 at 11:49:37 am

Thanks for your your info
I am glad

The HDMI cable .. can it pull for 100 feet

you Mean your camera in your church to atem is using HDMI
what about atem to projector or TV
what cable do u use..

Tim


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