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480p - How about some false advertising to chew on

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Alan Scott
480p - How about some false advertising to chew on
on Oct 7, 2010 at 11:13:49 pm

Decklink HD Extreme 3D owners have been waiting 6 months.
Ultrastudio Pro and Intensity Shuttle owners have been waiting 3 months.

All three products advertise 480p support on their technical specs but none have it.
It isn't just a broken feature, it just doesn't plain exist as an option.

Blackmagic Design Support has acknowledge (after several tickets) that the problem is known but any questions as to a timeframe for it to be corrected go unanswered (eg. no replies at all).

Messages via support to product managers has not generated any answers either. And when I say "any answers" I mean it. No one will officially respond at all as to what the priority is to correct this and when it will be resolved.

Two weeks after the Intensity Shuttle started shipping Kristian Lam alluded to this as an easy fix:
http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/323104-Intensity-Shuttle-Problem?p=20015...
Note: don't forget the directshow entry for it as well as the missing x3 1080p formats :)

Now almost 3 months since that post and several driver releases later there is still no option for it.

On the Blackmagic Design website there is no public statement that this feature is missing from these products. The technical spec pages have nothing indicating that the feature isn't supported at the moment either. After months have passed isn't it about time this is corrected instead of misleading the public?

As with many new products there tend to be some technical glitches upon release but it isn't reasonable after 3 to 6 months with no communication to the public about it to keep that grace period (from us) going.

I also find it hard to believe that this wasn't known prior to the release of the products in question but that is here nor there at this point.

At this stage knowing that these products can not do what is advertised and having the appearance of doing nothing about it (correcting the issue, making the public aware of it via the website, offering returns, etc) has turned into blatant false advertising.

Now isn't it about time Blackmagic Design actually does something about this and stop the false advertising?


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Aaron Pulicano
Re: 480p - How about some false advertising to chew on
on Oct 7, 2010 at 11:33:21 pm

I share your frustration and agree with everything you said.

Have been wanting/looking to purchase a capture card that meets my requirements for over a year now. The new Decklink HD Extreme 3D+ does almost everything I am looking for. Just will not spend the $1,000 on it until BlackMagic adds at least 8-Bit RGB 4:4:4 capture ability (10-Bit too if possible) for HDMI along with fulfilling their support 480p claim.


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Kristian Lam
Re: 480p - How about some false advertising to chew on
on Oct 8, 2010 at 7:20:19 am

Hi Aaron,

Thanks for the feedback. Maybe the card is not suitable for your needs then as 8-bit RGB 4:4:4 is typically a computer type format and not commonly used in the video world. 10-bit RGB 4:4:4 is used, but this is a very high bandwidth intensive format usually over dual link HD-SDI and only typically found on the high end VTRs like the HDCAM-SR decks. This is only limited to up to 1080i59.94 right now.

Can we add 8-bit RGB 4:4:4 capture? Possibly. But this is not high on our list of priority right now as it's not a commonly requested capture format.

regards

Kristian Lam
Blackmagic Design


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Aaron Pulicano
Re: 480p - How about some false advertising to chew on
on Oct 9, 2010 at 12:20:36 am

I just don't understand how you can classify 8-bit RGB 4:4:4 as "typically a computer type format and not commonly used in the video world" or say that it is "not a commonly requested capture format".

I mean, on the below website:
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/decklinkhdextreme/

Under "New HDMI 1.4 Support" it says:
Now you can capture 3D from devices such as cameras and "gaming consoles" into two separate full resolution video files, one for each eye.

Well the hardware of these HDMI gaming consoles (Xbox 360/PlayStation 3) output their video games in NATIVE 8-bit RGB 4:4:4. So why would anyone want to capture NATIVE 8-bit RGB 4:4:4 as YUV 8-Bit 4:2:2? And now that the Decklink HD Extreme 3D+ supports 3D over HDMI (i.e PlayStation 3), again, why would one want to capture a NATIVE 720p 3D 8-bit RGB 4:4:4 source as 3D YUV 8-Bit 4:2:2?

I know 480p has been requested as a feature for a long time but maybe 8-bit RGB 4:4:4 has not been high on the feature request list because many of those who capture are not aware of it or are fine capturing in YUV.

I am just so tired of being limited to YUV 4:2:2 ... my sources are RGB 4:4:4 and I want to be able to capture them as such. Other companies offer capture hardware that supports 8-bit RGB 4:4:4, don't you want to keep up with competitors?

Digital Foundry has such a capture card that also supports 1.4 HDMI w/ 3D.
It supports 8-bit RGB 4:4:4 from 480p60 to 1080p60 but only stereo for audio.
Cost for the card is $3,500+
http://www.digitalfoundry.org/showcase2/true_hd_express.html

GrassValley is releasing a breakout box that among other things, supports HDMI YCbCr4:2:2 or RGB4:4:4 (8/10-bit) from 480p60 to 1080p60 w/ LPCM 8-channel (24-bit/48 kHz) audio (but no 3D support from what I can tell).
The cost for breakout box is $6,500+
http://www.grassvalley.com/products/storm_3g_elite

I am not looking to spend that much nor could I justify spending so much. The Decklink HD Extreme 3D+ does ALMOST everything I am looking v.i HDMI (up to 1080p60/3D/LPCM 8-channel audio) for at a cost of $1,000. If you could only see to add HDMI capture support of 8-bit RGB 4:4:4 (w/ 16-235/0-255) and fully support 480p, not only would you earn my business, but undercut your competition and attract their customers and new ones.


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Kristian Lam
Re: 480p - How about some false advertising to chew on
on Oct 8, 2010 at 7:14:04 am

Hi Alan,

Thanks for the feedback. Yup, we still want to do it, but unfortunately, development got delayed but it's still on my list to do.

regards

Kristian Lam
Blackmagic Design


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Alan Scott
Re: 480p - How about some false advertising to chew on
on Oct 8, 2010 at 9:52:39 am

Hi Kristain

Now I'm a bit confused so bear with me.

The 480p feature is currently being advertised as available on all Blackmagic Design literature including the website for these products.

It isn't a "new" feature being added correct?

However your saying that development for this feature has been delayed (apparently for at least 6 months now) and no time frame can be expected for it?

Something isn't adding up here and hence my confusion.

1. It is advertised in the technical specs as working and available
2. Reality is the feature doesn't exist.

Not correcting either isn't making any sense to me.
Having this dragged out over this long a period of time makes less sense.


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Kristian Lam
Re: 480p - How about some false advertising to chew on
on Oct 8, 2010 at 11:28:56 am

Hi Alan,

We accept 480p over HDMI. The input is accepted but on capture, we convert it to 480i. What you're after is capturing 480p and maintaining the 480p file, this we don't do yet.

regards

Kristian Lam
Blackmagic Design


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Alan Scott
Re: 480p - How about some false advertising to chew on
on Oct 10, 2010 at 7:03:16 am

Decklink HD Extreme 3D started shipping April 12, 2010

DeckLink HD Extreme 3D Tech Specs
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/decklinkhdextreme/techspecs/

480p support:



Ultrastudio Pro started shipping June 25, 2010

Ultrastudio Pro Tech Specs
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/ultrastudiopro/techspecs/

480p support:



Intensity Shuttle started shipping July 2, 2010

Intensity Shuttle Tech Specs
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/techspecs/

480p support:




480p is not listed as a future capability.

Advertised as working and available != Still in development or not supported.

As I said in my first post:
As with many new products there tend to be some technical glitches upon
release but it isn't reasonable after 3 to 6 months with no communication to
the public about it to keep that grace period (from us) going.

At this stage knowing that these products can not do what is advertised and
having the appearance of doing nothing about it (correcting the issue,
making the public aware of it via the website, offering returns, etc) has
turned into blatant false advertising.


The responses given so far haven't given any indication that this is understood and being corrected.


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