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Darren Jarvis
BlackMagic Shuttle not detected
on Jul 16, 2010 at 8:56:56 pm

I dont know How many people here have the new Shuttle, as its new.
I recieved mine today.
I have a MSI P35 Platinum with Raid 0
Q6600
Asus 4X PCIe USB 3.0 card (NEC) (in the correct slot)


So far I`ve intalled the Intensity software off of the supplied CD
BlackMagic Media Express from the CD
and the BlackMagic USB drivers from the supplied CD

I know the PCIe card works fine, everything else works on it ok.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/U3S6-PCIE-SATA6G-USB3-CARD/dp/B002WD85IC


If i launch media express i get `no capture device found`
If i launch the BM control panel everything is `greyed out` (as its not finding anything).

What is `Live key` ?


i


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Darren Jarvis
Re: BlackMagic Shuttle not detected
on Jul 17, 2010 at 10:58:43 am

Sorry, couldnt find the `edit` button for the original post....

I looked at the Renesas Electronic Usb 3.0 host controller app and mine reports that i have
Driver version 2.0.4.0
FW version 3021

I have been to the http://www.station-drivers.com/page/nec.htm
website and the linked "FW v302508" download link is comming up as v3025 ??

I`m right in think the Shuttle NEEDS Fw v3025 to be recognised properly by the PC, yeah ?
Because at the moment the closest it gets is windows fails to `properly install BM device`, and its detected as an "Unknown device"

Please help! LOL

thanks.


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Darren Jarvis
Re: BlackMagic Shuttle not detected
on Jul 17, 2010 at 6:30:34 pm

Sorry, just noticed a typo...
was meant to say that http://www.station-drivers.com/page/nec.htm
bottom linked FW-v3025 file is actually FW-version 3021...
my driver version is alll fine but I cannot find the "F302508FWUP1" file anywhere on the CD or on the net,
and i think thats all thats stopping BM shuttle seeing the PCI-e card, the FW version of the card.

I am running Windows 7 Home Premium 64Bit also...

thanks.


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Darren Jarvis
Re: BlackMagic Shuttle not detected
on Jul 17, 2010 at 10:36:11 pm

ok, i FINALLY managed to find a FW version 3025 for the NEC PCI-e controller,..... the blackmagic is recognised by windows but saya `this device could perform faster`, is this the intensity drivers?

I also still cant get any selectable drop=down boxes in the BlackMagic control-panel


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Daniel Moore
Re: BlackMagic Shuttle not detected
on Jul 18, 2010 at 4:30:49 am

Hi Darren,

Did you install the "USB 3.0 Desktop Video Installer"? You need this
installer, rather than the Intensity installer. The latest version is
online on the Blackmagic Website.

cheers


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Darren Jarvis
Re: BlackMagic Shuttle not detected
on Jul 18, 2010 at 10:07:58 am

UPDATE: I now have the BlackMagic properly recognised by the windows, with no abnormal mesages etc. (regarding device performing faster, etc) but still no BM control panel control nor can i launch media express, just tells me theres no BM device found.

Yes I have the Usb Video Desktop installer instaled (from the CD)

What is just the BASIC intall requirement for the Shuttle?, just the USB 3 Desktop video drivers + media express ?...these are the 2 things i have

thanks.


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Adam Pakula
Re: BlackMagic Shuttle not detected
on Mar 30, 2012 at 12:12:04 pm

Hello Darren.

I know this post is 2 years old, but I am in the same predicament.
I have ultra studio pro and installed correct drivers and firmware, but my windows 7 cant see the device. Did you happen to find a solution???
Regards,
Adam


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Martin Kay
Re: BlackMagic Shuttle not detected
on Jul 18, 2010 at 10:19:03 am

To quote what it says in the USB3 FAQs on the BM site:-

Can I use a USB 3.0 PCIe card with my Windows PC for UltraStudio Pro, Intensity Shuttle or Pocket UltraScope?

Yes! On the Windows platform, you can use Blackmagic Design's USB 3.0 products with a P55 or X58 series motherboard which has been fitted with a USB 3.0 PCI Express card.


Since you have a motherboard with a P35 chipset, rather than a P55 or X58, that may be why it's not working.

However, I've tried it on both P55 and X58 motherboards, and have been less than happy with the results.

In particular, on the P55 M/B (an Asus P7P55D Evo with Asus U3S6 card in an 8x PCIe slot) I had a similar problem with the Shuttle being recognised in the Windows Device Manager, but not by the Blackmagic control panel (or Premiere). After I updated the motherboard BIOS it was properly recognised, but it's still virtually unusable in Premiere CS5 because it keeps dropping frames, even with SD video.

I would love to know what setup Blackmagic used in which the Shuttle "fully supported Premiere CS5" on a P55 chipset motherboard. For me, CS5 works just fine on its own, and I can get a good preview o/p over HDMI from a graphics card. What I was hoping (and expecting) is that I would be able to get the same sort of preview out of the Shuttle (and from the analogue outputs), but so far that is far from the case.

Martin Kay - ZEN Computer Services, UK


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Alan Scott
Re: BlackMagic Shuttle not detected
on Jul 21, 2010 at 3:24:32 am

I will be trying this out soon. My shuttle should be arriving in a few days.

The software bundle does come with the Blackmagic disk benchmark tool right? What results are either of you seeing?

Just to confirm, your not using the sata ports on the ASUS USB 3.0 card as well right?

In "theory" (and reiterated by Blackmagic) a PCIe 4x USB 3.0 adapter in a slot that has at least PCIe 4x lanes wired is supposed to be good enough. I can't find one other company or specification that indicates P55 or X58 as a must for USB 3.0 adapters and "should" come down to how well the bandwidth to disk and USB 3.0 is being handled by the board.

Can guess the only boards tested were P55 X58 and they didn't want to go back a couple of generations of chipsets to make sure they workedl (somewhat understandable) or there is some known latency issues with the P35, P45 boards not very well documented in regards to USB 3.0.


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Danny Hays
Re: BlackMagic Shuttle not detected
on Jul 21, 2010 at 7:03:32 am

I also tried downloading the software and firmwre from here.
http://www.station-drivers.com/page/nec.htm
But the firmware download just downloads the same file as the software link. They have just recently changed the file you get. I got an earlier one that extracted 2 folders, 32 and 64. There's a firmware .bat, Batch file in both folders, depending weather your running 32 or 64 bit that will update the firmware. With Windows 7, make sure you run as administrator.
You need to do this before installing any of the Blackmagin software.
I have it running on a 32 bit I7 machine with an Asus P6x58D premium board at work. I'll try in at home with 64 bit and same M.B. in the next few days at home. I'll keep you posted, Danny Hays



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Darren Jarvis
Re: BlackMagic Shuttle not detected
on Jul 21, 2010 at 4:03:46 pm

Alan Scott qutoe:
{ I will be trying this out soon. My shuttle should be arriving in a few days.

The software bundle does come with the Blackmagic disk benchmark tool right? What results are either of you seeing?

Just to confirm, your not using the sata ports on the ASUS USB 3.0 card as well right?

In "theory" (and reiterated by Blackmagic) a PCIe 4x USB 3.0 adapter in a slot that has at least PCIe 4x lanes wired is supposed to be good enough. I can't find one other company or specification that indicates P55 or X58 as a must for USB 3.0 adapters and "should" come down to how well the bandwidth to disk and USB 3.0 is being handled by the board. }

Can guess the only boards tested were P55 X58 and they didn't want to go back a couple of generations of chipsets to make sure they workedl (somewhat understandable) or there is some known latency issues with the P35, P45 boards not very well documented in regards to USB 3.0.




Errm, NO I`m not using the SATA ports on the Asus PCIe card....what i DID notice was when BlackMagic say "Our product is ok with PCIe X4" ( then prefferably the x58 + P55 Mobos ).
I assume theymeant PCIe V2 X4 Lanes, whereas, for example my board has PCIe V1 X4...

could it be that they`ve made the drivers `test` the connection stas/type before even lanching any control panel etc, and simply refuse to launch the device on anything OTHER-THAN --`MAX-POTENTIAL` ??



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cowcowcowcow
Alan Scott
Re: BlackMagic Shuttle not detected
on Jul 22, 2010 at 12:33:52 pm

The information on USB 3.0 is that in theory a PCIe x4 USB 3.0 card "should" be ok on a PCIe 1.x slot. It is the PCIe x1 that requires PCIe 2.0 spec.

However, looking at the ASUS card a bit further keep in mind that it has an extra PCIe bridge chip and two devices to complicate things. The NEC USB 3.0 and Marvel SATA chips have to go through the bridge chip and is in essence an extra hop in order to get to the slot/bus. Now we have two high bandwidth devices (not just USB 3.0) trying to share the x4 slot via the bridge chip. I can guess it could add some latency as well.

If it's designed well it would give USB 3.0 the full bandwidth of the x4 PCIe if no SATA devices needed it which is even more important because of your PCIe 1.x limitation. If you have the SATA drivers for it loaded I'd try disabling them in device manager for grins at this point.

ASUS isn't making any claims that the board will work at full USB 3.0 bandwidth on a PCIe 1.x slot (their manual and docs are pretty much worthless) and that being said I can't seem to find another PCIe x4 that is just USB 3.0 either.

Now that I've looked at that card further I don't like the idea of that bridge chip regardless if it is used on a X58/P55 board. If the Shuttle really requires full USB 3.0 bandwidth and low latency I don't need something else possibly complicating that. Would like to hear what Blackmagic says about that card since it is popular.

Unfortunately I had already ordered one along with another PCIe x1 card to try out. The Shuttle should be arriving this Friday.


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Darren Jarvis
Re: BlackMagic Shuttle not detected
on Jul 22, 2010 at 3:56:28 pm

@ Alan Scott
Ok, thanks for the info,
a couple of questions:
1: Is there a tool (software) of some sort that measures hardware performance, for PCIe slots etc... kinda like the Hdd R/W speed test that comes on the BM CD,

2: Earlier in this thread I noted on how I struggled to find the any FW v3025 for the ASUS pci-e card, the ONLY thing i could find anywhere was for http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?lndocid=MIGR-75165

this got me to v3025, as i was stuck on v3021 before that, with Shuttle not even recognised AT ALL until getting the latest FW.
then I piut the lastest driver version on after that, drvr.v2.0.4.0.... I assume this is ok as its the same NEC chipset in the thinkpads as in the the ASUS PCIe card ?

3: Ok, i will un-install the AHCI(sata) drivers for the Asus card, and re-install just the USB 3.0 driver ONLY.... you said to disable sata from device manager(not sure how)..only installing one of the drivers will do the same thing right ?


when I boot up my PC now there is a new Marvel controller that shows a Bios V 0.0.0.012 (i think)...can i enter that Bios the same as i can my normal MAIN Bios ?, would there be anything in there to disable the Sata or not ?

Thanks.


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cowcowcowcowcow
Martin Kay
Re: BlackMagic Shuttle not detected
on Jul 22, 2010 at 4:52:31 pm

could it be that they`ve made the drivers `test` the connection stas/type before even lanching any control panel etc, and simply refuse to launch the device on anything OTHER-THAN --`MAX-POTENTIAL` ??


I think this may well be what they do, more or less. When I first put an ASUS U3S6 into a P7P55D-Evo M/B the BM Shuttle drivers installed but the device wasn't accessible in the BM Control Panel. Once I updated the main M/B BIOS the Shuttle became accessible, but I still wasn't very happy with the overall performance.

Since then I've spent some time on the phone to BM in the UK and the impression I got was that if the Shuttle connects and is accessible, then the USB3 card is in the right sort of slot and has sufficient available bandwidth, or else the Shuttle won't show as available in the BM Control Panel. They also said they'd used the Asus U3S6 (in an X58 motherboard).

Just in case it was anything to do with the U3S6, I've now tried an Asus P7P55D-E Pro which has v2 5Gb/s 1x PCIe slots (as opposed to the 2.5Gb/s 1x slots on the P7P55D Evo) with a 1x NEC USB3 card. I also tried the NEC chip that's built onto the P55 motherboard (which BM's web notes say you shouldn't use). In my tests they all seemed to work much the same, and the issues with the Shuttle & Adobe CS5 seemed pretty much the same whichever USB3 connection I used out of those three options (in various permutations of single/multiple active USB3 ports).

Martin Kay - ZEN Computer Services, UK


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Alan Scott
Re: BlackMagic Shuttle not detected
on Jul 24, 2010 at 3:21:36 pm

Well.. it appears they are checking the motherboard chipset vs. pcie link speed or device capabilities.

Looking at the block diagrams of the P55 and P45 and finding other people that have confirmed the same, indeed the x1 slots ultimately go through a limited 2GB/s link.

While both chipsets indicate PCIe 2.0 capable speed on these slots/onboard devices, they are still throttled back by design so it can't saturate the 2GB/s link going upstream.

Alright, no problem. So for P55 you have to use a PCIe USB 3.0 card on a second PCIe x16 slot (used as x8 when both are in use) to get your PCIe x1 5GB/s link speed.

For grins testing this on a P45 board I can verify I have a 5GB/s link speed via SiSoftware Sandra with a PCIe x1 USB 3.0 card in the second x16 slot. The blackmagic software still claims it isn't usb 3.0 on boot though.

In the end we have a P55 running a USB 3.0 card at 2.5Gb/s PCIe link speed and the blackmagic software didn't complain, but claims a USB 3.0 5GB/s configuration on an P45 isn't USB 3.0. :/

Regardless, it is Blackmagic's prerogative to pick the configuration they want to support and they state it up front. Albeit In case of the P55 there wasn't mention that it must only be with USB 3.0 card in an available second x16 slot.

I am somewhat confused that the configuration must be so finite and aggressive that it doesn't make sense. You have to have full usb 3.0 and PCIe 5GB/s bandwidth when the supported disk controllers we are using are maxed at 3GB/s. I mean I've been running a Decklink HD Extreme on the same P45 board for a couple of years and capture 10bit YUV 1080p uncompressed without issue, but again, their prerogative.

A "speed" check between the shuttle and USB card to verify compatibility vs. hard coded assumptions would be a better way to go even on P55/X58 though.


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Martin Kay
Re: BlackMagic Shuttle not detected
on Jul 24, 2010 at 5:03:23 pm

Albeit In case of the P55 there wasn't mention that it must only be with USB 3.0 card in an available second x16 slot.


I think what they imply is that it must be a "full speed" PCIe v2 slot, which is not the case with many P55 boards which claim to have a v2 1-lane slot, but only run it at v1 speed. Having tried the Asus P7P55D-E Pro, which does have a "full speed" x1 PCIe slot, I can confirm that the Shuttle works with a generic NEC-chipset USB3 card in the top v2 1-lane slot. Also, the Shuttle works off the USB3 port from the NEC chip on that motherboard, which appears to be an built-in version of Asus's U3S6 card with the same x4 PCIe Bridge chip configuration, so therefore gets sufficient bandwidth.

That said, I have found the BM FAQs and release notes somewhat lacking, as a result of which I've bought and swapped over to a new motherboard and USB3 card, which I probably needn't have done. It's taken me about two working days to get to the bottom of what works and what doesn't, and (sometimes) the reason why, given that there's something of a triangle between the PC hardware (and USB3 drivers), Adobe's CS5 application (with its GPU acceleration), and the Blackmagic drivers & plug-ins. I suspect there are currently limitations (at best) and bugs (at worst) in all of them, which conspire together to make the current combination sometimes behave in unpredictable ways. Equally, it will probably get better as the software evolves, so there is some hope! :)

Martin Kay - ZEN Computer Services, UK


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John Smith
Re: BlackMagic Shuttle not detected
on Jul 25, 2010 at 11:43:54 pm

Hi,

I'm running a Mac Pro x58 chipset with Bootcamp on a Windows 7 64-Bit. I've installed an ASUS U3S6 USB 3.0 PCie card in it. I've installed the drivers that came with it, including the RENESAS drivers. I've installed the USB 3.0 driver from BlackMagic. Upon restarting, it asks for a firmware update and a message stating "The Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle could transfer data faster if it is connected to a SuperSpeed USB 3.0 port." What can I do to ensure that the USB 3.0 port is at it's full bandwidth to get the Shuttle to output a signal?

John


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John Smith
Re: BlackMagic Shuttle not detected
on Jul 27, 2010 at 9:52:07 pm

ASUS U3S6 has been tested and works with the Blackmagic Shuttle. What hasn't been tested by Blackmagic is Bootcamp. When I installed the card, the USB ports on the back of my Mac LED Cinema Display stopped working. Could it be that be to compensate the bandwidth of USB 3.0? However, it seems like USB 3.0 cannot be handled at its full speed because I got that message. Could my PCIe 2.0 be working as a PCIe 1.0? BlackMagic Shuttle was able to be successfully be recognized and installed, so there has to be some way to make it work.

Anyway, Darren, have you had any success with capturing from BlackMagic Shuttle?


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Alan Scott
Re: BlackMagic Shuttle not detected
on Jul 30, 2010 at 7:49:12 am

You can try the free/lite version of SiSoftware Sandra to verify the PCIe link speed and type. Look in the Hardware->Buses and Devices.

You should be covered for the x4 PCIe 2.0 lanes if it's a Mac Pro from Early 2008 on. All slots are wired for it.

Mac Pros before early 2008 required the Expansion Slot Utility to verify/assign number of lanes and ran PCIe 1.0.

I just about had a panic attack on a fresh install of Win7 x64 and the 7.7.3 drivers on an X58 board. After installing the drivers and rebooting I got the USB Speed pop-up and all options on the BM Control Panel disabled. Subsequent reboots haven't produced the error again (thankfully).


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Greg McCarthy
Re: BlackMagic Shuttle not detected
on Mar 24, 2011 at 10:03:45 am

Where did you find the FW version 3025

Greg


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