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Videohub & Avid RS422 PC issue

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Christopher Lowden
Videohub & Avid RS422 PC issue
on Jun 29, 2010 at 9:26:26 pm

Hello
I am finishing an installation of a 16 port videohub. I have 4 avid MC4.02 plus 2 After Effects with BM cards and an Autodesk Smoke. In short, I have no problem controling the AE and the Smoke via the rs422, but I am unable to do the same with the PC avids. I am have a standard avid RS233 port Rosetta converter. When I hard wire a beta sp to the avid all works fine, but I go via the videohub, I cannot get a connection. I presume this is not normal. Where am I going wrong? Is there any special parametres for PC I should know about? I have installed the same config on mac without a problem.


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Bob Zelin
Re: Videohub & Avid RS422 PC issue
on Jun 29, 2010 at 9:53:45 pm

why the hell are you blaming Blackmagic for any of this ? You have already stated that your AE stations (with Blackmagic cards) and your Autodesk Smoke (with AJA Kona 3 ?) are working perfectly fine, but your AVID is not working.

First, I would confirm that the Blackmagic RS422 port works - plug in one of your other workstations to that port, to make sure that you can use the RS422 port on the Blackmagic to pass the signal of your AE or Smoke system thru that crosspoint (because I had a bad RS422 port once on a Blackmagic router as well).

If this works, then blame your AVID. You have not stated what your hardware is for your AVID - PC or MAC ? You say that you have a Rosetta Stone - but it is the DataPort, or the Addenda RS-2/8. These products are RS232 to RS422 adaptors, and you must take the RS422 side and send it to your VTR or the Blackmagic Router RS422 port. Do you have a NEW computer, like a Z400 or Z800 ? Or are you using a HP xw8000, xw8200, xw8400, or xw8600 ?

Bob Zelin





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Bob Zelin
Re: Videohub & Avid RS422 PC issue
on Jun 29, 2010 at 9:57:57 pm

hey Chris -
in the same way that you would use VTR XChange from AJA to test a bad RS422 port on an AJA Kona card (like you have in your MAC Smoke system), you can download this software from Addenda (that makes the Rosetta Stone RS-2/8 for AVID) to test your Addenda adaptor, without running the Media Composer application -

http://www.addenda.com/addenda-elect/software/index.php

Don't worry Chris, it's FREE, and Addenda is a great company.
This will help you, ONCE you confirm that your RS422 port is working, by switching one of your working systems onto this port. (and check your RS422 cable !).

Bob Zelin




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Joshua Helling
Re: Videohub & Avid RS422 PC issue
on Jun 30, 2010 at 12:07:59 am

Hey There,

We think we may know why this occurs.

FCP sends out a constant "ping" to the deck to find out if the deck is connected.

Avid sends out one ping. If it does not get a response, it thinks no VTR is connected and then does not allow the other commands like "Play" or "Stop" to work.

Because our Hubs are automatically switching the RS422 direction, we're dropping part of the message so the directionality of the RS422 connection is not set, hence there is no communication.

There's an option in the VTR control window of Avid that says something like "connect to deck" which will try to establish deck control.

If the user runs that command twice quickly within 5 seconds, it should start working.

Please try that and let us know if that helps out.

We've only recently added the automatic direction detection into the software, so this is a fairly recent discovery. We are looking at ways we can make this better.

You could conceivably use an older version of the software (going back to a drive where the automatic directionality detection was not there) it could help, though we don't recommend running older versions of the software as you could remove functionality of the product.

Sincerely,

Joshua
Director of Support
Blackmagic Design Inc.


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Bob Zelin
Re: Videohub & Avid RS422 PC issue
on Jul 1, 2010 at 12:20:28 am

Joshua writes -
There's an option in the VTR control window of Avid that says something like "connect to deck" which will try to establish deck control.


REPLY - it's called CHECK DECKS. If you have an AB switch for your 9 pin AVID remote, or a RS422 patch bay, and it's not connected to your VTR, once you patch, or switch, you have to do a CHECK DECKS (in your Capture Tool) to re-establish communication with the AVID.

Bob Zelin





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Christopher Lowden
Re: Videohub & Avid RS422 PC issue
on Jul 1, 2010 at 5:46:25 am

Here is the resume of my findings.

HP 8600 - No connection possible either with the Keyspan USB - RS232 or directly with the DataPort box. Both connections are live

Z400 - Intermittent connection possible using Keyspan USB - RS232 but check decks does not work. I can only connect by using a manual config and after many attempts.

I have 6 suites all connected to the Videohub that I cannot digitise out dump from. This is nothing short of a disaster. Please can someone at BM put on line a fix very quickly or an old install so I can now use my installation. For that matter, I can only find a mac download on the BM website.


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Kristian Lam
Re: Videohub & Avid RS422 PC issue
on Jul 1, 2010 at 11:25:52 am

Hi,

Did you try running check decks 2 or 3 times in quick succession?

Here's the link to the Windows 4.2 VIdeohub driver:

http://blackmagic-design.com/downloads/software/Videohub_Windows_4.2.zip



regards

Kristian Lam
Blackmagic Design


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Bob Zelin
Re: Videohub & Avid RS422 PC issue
on Jul 1, 2010 at 1:09:02 pm

This is why details are critical. You have a Keyspan (TrippLite) USA-19X, which is a USB to RS232 (not RS422) adaptor. The correct connection is to go from the xw8600 (USB port) to the Keyspan USA19x. This 9 pin connection is now RS232 (not RS422). You now take this RS232 signal, and send it into ANOTHER ADAPTOR - the DataPort or the Addenda RS-2/8

http://www.addenda.com/addenda-elect/products/rs28.php

This turns the Keyspan USA-19X into an RS422 signal. In the OLD days, AVID just supplied the Addenda RS-2/8 because the xw8000, xw8200 and xw8400 had native 9 pin serial RS232 comm ports on the computer, but this is no longer the case, so they had to switch to the USA-19X to convert USB to RS232 (and then another adaptor to convert to RS422).

Now, don't start giving me crap about "but it used to work", or "how come I can get it to work when I hook it up directly to the VTR". The way I described is EXACTLY the way that AVID sends out new systems. I install AVID's all the time (like the new AVID Nitris DX with the HP Z800 computer) - it comes with BOTH the Keyspan USA-19X and the DataPort RS232 to RS422 adaptor. If you don't like my explanation, then CALL AVID and ask them. You are doing this wrong.

Summary - you use BOTH BOXES in series, not one or the other.

Bob Zelin




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Bob Zelin
Re: Videohub & Avid RS422 / AVID Document
on Jul 1, 2010 at 1:30:42 pm

It is living hell trying to find AVID information on the web, as they want you to pay big bucks for a support contract to get information on how to configure your system. Nice how it's under the Pinnacle name, and not AVID - but this is an AVID document on the correct hookup of RS422 for your computers -

you now owe me a box of cookies.
Bob Zelin



http://cdn.pinnaclesys.com/SupportFiles/attach/AVID%20HP%20Z800%20Configura...

Serial Port Deck Control:
The HP Z800 workstation does have an embedded serial port. The embedded serial-port has been qualified by Avid and will maintain frame accuracy in Avid environments. Primary or secondary / additional serial port deck control can be established via two methods (both of which have been qualified by Avid and will maintain frame accuracy in Avid environments)
1. Addenda model RS-USB / 4 direct USB-to-RS422 serial adapter. This is a simple device which connects directly from a USB port of the Z800 directly to the RS422 port of a deck.
http://www.addenda.com/addenda-elect/products/rsUSB4.php
2. Combination of a Keyspan (Tripp-Lite) Model USA-19HS USB-to-serial-port adapter with Addenda Rosetta Stone model RS – 2/8 RS232-to-RS422 converter
- Keyspan (Tripp-Lite) Model USA-19HS (AVID P/N 7080-20013-01) http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtSeriesID=518&EID=13384&tx...
- Addenda Rosetta Stone (or equivalent) model RS – 2/8 RS232-to-RS422 converter (AVID P/N 7070-00507-01)
http://www.addenda.com/addenda-elect/products/rs28.php
To connect the Keyspan 19HS / Addenda RS -2/8 combination:
- Install the Keyspan 19HS driver before plugging the device into a Z800 USB port.
- Once the Keyspan 19HS driver is installed then plug the Keyspan 19HS into a Z800 USB port.
- The Keyspan 19HS will now show up in device driver.
- Using a serial cable, connect the 9-pin serial port of the Keyspan 19HS USB adapter to the port of the Addenda marked RS232 from PC
- Using a 2nd serial port cable connect the port of the Addenda marked “RS422 to VTR” to the deck control



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Christopher Lowden
Re: Videohub & Avid RS422 / AVID Document
on Jul 1, 2010 at 2:15:22 pm

Dear Bob
Many thanks for all this info. The Rossetta stones I have are made pridominately by Datamate, but I have Addenda too. This set up has been running without problem for over 3 years without the Videohub and works perfectly when I connect the Avid directly to my Digibeta. Therefore I conclude that I have a BM Videohub issue.
I will try to retro grade the version to see if this solves the issue. I really hope so. .... Or maybe BM will post a rectified version today (probably not).
Thank you again
Christopher

PS, if you want to have the install info for validated Avid systems, you can find them at

http://avid.custkb.com/avid/app/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=362927&Hilite=...

http://avid.custkb.com/avid/app/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=269631&Hilite=...


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Bob Zelin
Re: Videohub & Avid RS422 / AVID Document
on Jul 1, 2010 at 6:04:05 pm

Chris -
your HP Z400 did not exist 3 years ago. Older HP PC computers had a 9 pin serial COMM port. This is a RS232 Port. The DataMate is a RS232 to RS422 converter. You specifically said that you were using the Keyspan USB to RS232 adaptor in your previous post.

In the "past 3 years", you would take the 9 pin off the HP xw series COMM 1 port (not the USB port) and go into the DataMate. This would convert the RS232 signal to RS422, and this would go into your Digi beta VTR. If you have a NEW HP COMPUTER (like the Z series), THERE IS NO 9 PIN RS232 COMM PORT - so you have to use the Keyspan USA-19HS USB to RS232 adaptor to convert to RS232 - THEN you go into the DataMate RS232 to RS422 adaptor. This is the way you get a Z400 or Z800 to work. I DONT GIVE A CRAP WHAT WORKED THREE YEARS AGO. Three years ago, HP computers had 9 pin comm ports on them which were RS232 ports, and plugged into the DataMate. THE RULES HAVE CHANGED. RS232 and RS422 both have 9 pin connectors, but they are DIFFERENT, and RS232 WILL NOT CONTROL A SONY DIGI BETA VTR. This is why you see no problems with your Kona card in your Smoke, or no problem with your Decklink cards- BECAUSE THEY ARE RS422. The HP computers DO NOT HAVE RS422 ports, and AVID relies on adaptors to make this happen. If you do not have the correct adaptors on your computer, it will not work, and the USB to RS232 adaptor WILL NOT CONTROL A SONY VTR.

Call your AVID dealer and ask them, or post on the Creative Cow AVID forum if you don't believe me. Blackmagic doesn't have to fix anything.

Bob Zelin




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Christopher Lowden
Re: Videohub & Avid RS422 / AVID Document
on Jul 1, 2010 at 7:51:01 pm

Retro grading back to 4.2 has globally done the trick.
Many thanks for all your help.
Christopher


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Russ Shaw
Re: Videohub & Avid RS422 / AVID Document
on Oct 3, 2010 at 5:47:26 pm

We experienced the exact same scenario and had to role back versions. I would have thought BM would have resolved this by giving an option to use automatic or manual direction by now. We are missing out on the new features because of this.


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Mark Ott
Re: Videohub & Avid RS422 PC issue
on Jan 27, 2011 at 5:21:16 am

Thanks everyone for this thread. We successfully connected through the video hub today with our avids. we successfully used the rapid check decks method to get video hub to send the signals in the correct direction. Is this a fix that BM is going to address? Or is this our fix for the long term? We are using 4.6.2 and the described (avid approved) keyspan with Rosetta stones.


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