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Ken Mitchell
blackmagic and psystar
on Sep 13, 2009 at 12:37:14 am

Ok... has anyone used a blackmagic HD card with a psystar computer and mac os? It appears that the higher end computers would work..



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Bob Zelin
Re: blackmagic and psystar
on Sep 13, 2009 at 3:32:29 pm

I have a better question - will FCP actually run on these computers ?

http://store.psystar.com/home/desktops/openpro-osx.html
looks like a great "cheap" Mac Pro, but what about this -

After the Guardian did their own investigation into the Mac clone maker Psystar yesterday, we decided to take it a step further and see if they actually exist, in the physical sense. How could a company so brazenly challenge Apple and have little to no record of actually being a company? We sent the Gizmodo army down there to get pictures of both their supposed addresses, and found that they're as much vaporware as the Phantom Console of yore. Read on for the details and location pictures.

AND THIS -
In what is probably the most surprising non-celebrity-death story in weeks, recently bankrupt Psystar—surly maker of all things hackintosh—is now claiming to be ready for a comeback, with a new product in tow. This makes very little sense.

A superquick recap: Psystar releases the OpenMac, a $400 desktop Mac clone; people debate if this is possible, technically or legally, and if Psystar is a scam; the hackintoshes turn out to be real; they ship; Apple gets upset; Psystar grandstands; Apple continues to be upset; Psystar gets murdered. To death.

That was the story a few weeks ago, at least. Now Psystar is basically acting like nothing happened, releasing a fresh bootloader, a new computer—the $1500, i7-based Open(7) desktop—and revisiting their old, defiant tone in an email newsletter:


First, let's revisit what we already know. Not only does the Miami Chamber of Commerce and BBB not know anything about any company named Psystar (confirmed by reader Travis through his contacts in the chamber), the actual physical address they listed on their website actually changed halfway through the day yesterday. What's going on here? Did they all of a sudden move from a home business into a new office space? Nope. Here's the deal.


Reader Michael went down to their first location, address courtesy of the Guardian's quick fingers, and saw that it was indeed a residential address. It's a one story house with a truck and sedan out front. Not a business, but still holds the possibility of being a small home business. Still, unlikely. Why would they change their address? Perhaps they saw all the reaction they were getting about their Open Mac products and wanted a bigger space?




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Bob Zelin
Re: blackmagic and psystar- one more thing
on Sep 13, 2009 at 3:34:30 pm

You do realize that if this computer exists, and actually works, that Apple would stop supporting Blackmagic in a heartbeat if they knew they were doing development work with Psystar.

bob Zelin




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Ken Mitchell
Re: blackmagic and psystar- one more thing
on Sep 13, 2009 at 6:13:51 pm

Well I was just wondering. My friend has a psystar it seems to work
perfectly with the intensity card.. I was just wondering if anyone had
used it with a full serial hd card....I know they exist because 3 people I know have them... only 2 are using the mac os...



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Justin Barham
Re: blackmagic and psystar- one more thing
on Sep 13, 2009 at 10:06:07 pm

Why would Blackmagic have to be developing specifically for Pystar?

- Justin Barham -


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Bob Zelin
Re: blackmagic and psystar- one more thing
on Sep 14, 2009 at 1:21:48 am

you people are just sick -
this is from September 1, 2009

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/09/psystar-fined-5k-files-snow-leopa...

Why don't you just go on ebay and buy a used MAC at a good price ?

Bob Zelin




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Randy Johnson
Re: blackmagic and psystar- one more thing
on Sep 14, 2009 at 3:12:37 am

FCP and BMD products are not "smart" enough to tell the difference or any other hackintosh. Now with Leopard 10.5 finished the only way Apple could mess up you Pystar or and other Hackintosh is if you went to Snow leopard in that case Apple update would make your whole machine a brick not just FCP. Theres no reason why BMI products or FCP wont run with Pystar in 10.5.x at the end of the day if it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck its a duck. theres no magic in Mac pro its a Intel machine with OSX installed.

Randy Johnson
Rando1968@comcast.net


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Margus Voll
Re: blackmagic and psystar- one more thing
on Sep 14, 2009 at 10:49:26 am

It seems to me that people want to use cheap solution even more free. Apple FCP suite is relatively cheap compared to some PC suites. Back in the day when i switched to mac it was mainly cost as i see software is better priced and has so many options in standard set. I'd say it is ridiculous to try get buy like this. As Bob says if you are in this business you have money if not use university gear etc.



--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu


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Randy Johnson
Re: blackmagic and psystar- one more thing
on Sep 14, 2009 at 2:53:02 pm

With all do respect it is more complex than that.Sure moneys a factor but your assuming that the users are ONLY using Mac its a diverse world out there now and there are strong programs on both sides of the fence and people want options, options that Apple doesnt want to give up at this time. In my case I need 2 machines I run a buisness but its a very small one and I cant afford 2 $3,000 Mac pros I will say if all I used was OSX then I would definatlty buy at least one Mac Pro. I know everyone comes down on Pystar and I honestly I would never buy one but if nothing else they are making people see the outrageous mark up that Apple does.

Randy Johnson
Rando1968@comcast.net


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Margus Voll
Re: blackmagic and psystar- one more thing
on Sep 14, 2009 at 3:01:04 pm

Hi again.

Yes there is a point but as i pointed out software is relatively cheap.
I'd say apple computers are not too costly compared to some dell and hp machines.

Would you be willing to pay some extra $ for the software if the computer would be cheaper.
I see reasonable balance here.

You could go with cheaper pc solutions so all your business would be legit.

I did use pc in the beginning and it was reasonable way i'd say.

--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu


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Randy Johnson
Re: blackmagic and psystar- one more thing
on Sep 14, 2009 at 3:21:20 pm

My thing in my business is I do more on a PC than a Mac but I do use OSX occasionally but id rather have a windows machine that runs osx than a Mac that runs windows. Also the problem I have with Apples marketing is I need more than a i-mac because I use BM type cards but I cant justify a $3000 8 core computer I like many people were hoping Apple would see the light and release a mid-range tower and maybe a company like Pystar will push them that way.

Randy Johnson
Rando1968@comcast.net


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Aristides Tiropolis
Re: blackmagic and psystar- one more thing
on Sep 14, 2009 at 7:24:40 pm

The legal battle between Psystar and Apple is interesting to say the least...It brings the question of EULA enforceability and especially some of its points to be more precise. The question in my view isn't what Psystar is selling or its quality, but the whole concept of others selling machines with OSX installed. If nothing else Apple must know by now that people really, really want their OS. They just don't feel covered from their hardware range, I mean a macbook pro with no ExpressCard slot? Really? (By the way that could be an SNL news Section with Seth meyers), its not only about money its also more about choice.


Groklaw and OSnews has been following the case and the lawyer Shenanigans.

By the way I've been running an Gigabyte/intel nehalem based machine with Leopard and Vista x64 happily with my decklink about a month now...

Cheers...







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Randy Johnson
Re: blackmagic and psystar- one more thing
on Sep 14, 2009 at 7:38:57 pm

By the way I've been running an Gigabyte/intel nehalem based machine with Leopard and Vista x64 happily with my decklink about a month now...

Ditto only with a Intensity pro.

On the legal thing, I think Pystar must have SOME leg to stand on or Apples legal would have blown them out of the water by now.

Randy Johnson
Rando1968@comcast.net


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Bob Zelin
Re: blackmagic and psystar- one more thing
on Sep 14, 2009 at 9:18:59 pm

I am not sure what you boys do for a living, but I use more PC's than I use MAC's, and professional PC's from HP (like the xw8400, xw8600 and new Z800) are EXPENSIVE. So are IBM Intellistations, so are Dell Precision 690 workstations, and so are BOXX Systems PC's.

How you folks are running your businesses (and making money) with $500 PC's is beyond me.

Bob Zelin




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Randy Johnson
Re: blackmagic and psystar- one more thing
on Sep 14, 2009 at 10:53:08 pm

Bob,
Try and understand not everyone who edits is making movies or commercials there's a lot of guys out there doing weddings and corporate work (like myself) that simply dont need a $3000 pre-built system. I build my own systems for about $1000 to $1500 which do everything I need and at least for now run just as fast as a Macpro. There is nothing a Macpro can do (that I need) that one of my systems wont do and I don't see a problem with someone going to the Apple store and buying a copy of Leopard (snow or not) then going home a installing it on hardware he bought himself.

Randy Johnson
Rando1968@comcast.net


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Margus Voll
Re: blackmagic and psystar- one more thing
on Sep 15, 2009 at 5:39:18 am

Exactly my point (point what Bob talks about).

Good super reliable computer on pc world are costly.

If mac hardware seems costly then you just go to pc and adobe route and thats it. No woodoo there.

I still see pretty strong balance between apple software and computer pricing compared to boxx etc.

With 500 buck computer there you are more on your own if something happens and you are on deadline. If thats is ok then i see no point to be sad about not getting osx. Just go the adobe route and you will be fine. It is not the os that makes the final result. The person that operates this machine is.

--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu


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Aristides Tiropolis
Re: blackmagic and psystar- one more thing
on Sep 15, 2009 at 7:04:09 am

[Margus Voll] "It is not the os that makes the final result. The person that operates this machine is."

Yeah, but one does need some tools and find solutions on a project. Sometimes being only on the windows world doesn't bring the best tools available and you find yourself needing more choice.

[Bob Zelin] "How you folks are running your businesses (and making money) with $500 PC's is beyond me."

I personally never had a 500$ computer and the one I have costs more than triple that, without peripherals and special cards.

Bob, I'm a director and producer. I work freelance so I don't own\run a production house. If I did all my systems would probably Mac Pro's or HP's. I do need however to be able to do some or a portion of my professional work at home, pretty much the same way an audio engineer can sort and cut an audio project at his/her home and export an OMF/AAF and then work the mix in a Dolby Digital certified mega-studio. In a similar manner I may do some editing at home and have a Flame artist for example do some CC or compositng on a Flame Workstation, but I may need to do/test stuff on Shake or Color prior to going in the production house, or I sometimes do 75% of the work at home...you catch my drift?

Now's the time that we need powerful systems at home and we sometimes use workarounds to get what we want. Apple isn't giving the hardware range people want and we do need a good price/value ratio and we maybe want to overclock, you don't need that type of stuff so you probably think its worthless, but hey, its not.

Although support on off-the self systems is not the same as a support plan from HP or Apple Care. At least all my hardware is on a three year warranty. Apple gives just one year and you must pay any additional time.

I'm in a schedule were I constantly move files from Mac's to PC's to production houses, to my colleagues, in other houses, over the internet, you name it. My old career was in IT so I'm probably more relaxed with computers, but that means I'm more specific in my needs...






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Margus Voll
Re: blackmagic and psystar- one more thing
on Sep 15, 2009 at 7:14:33 am

Hi again.

One thing some RED people are testing is 17" MBP with pci extender or something like that for red rocket.

I think something similar would work with editing and capturing cards if someone tested it with compressed formats. Only question is where you put your media as express slot is filled. FW 800 maybe.

I have no idea about the cost but generally it is possible in theory and then you could have your mobile, home, testing machine. No mandatory 8 cores. I i'm considering this one against iMac for home testing unit.

--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu


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nicky van der walt
Re: blackmagic and psystar- one more thing
on Sep 15, 2009 at 9:52:53 am

I'm probably not all that qualified or experienced to add my 2c worth to this discussion, but I will anyway :)

Down here in South Africa where we struggle to get the balance right between being third world and trying to act first world it is difficult to run your facility only on Mac Pro's or HP/Dell/whatever pre built 'supercomputers'. Because by the time you get those baby's down south... the price has been inflated so much that it gets a bit crazy.

In our facility we run all PC and all custom built PC's. But they don't just get slapped together in a day after randomly picking components from a catalog. They get researched and tested to make sure the components work together and that they will work for what they are built for and that they will run the software etc

For example, I have 2x Intel Core i7's and if I wanted to go the Apple route, my only option would have been to get MAC PRO systems at a much higher price, becuase Apple dont have anything in the same market. It's either Quad/Dual Quad Core XEON based systems or an iMac with no options for capture cards RAID's etc

I also have a Dual Quad Core XEON system running with 24GB RAM which cost me probably the same that I would have paid for a MAC PRO, but then I would have had to add a lot of extra cost to add more RAM, extra drives etc to get to the same level as the PC.

I think it is possible to run your facility on custom built machines as long as the builder of said custom machine is not your auntie's gardeners cousin who slaps together systems in his garage in his spare time. Just do your research, know your components and do things properly or find yourself a technology partner that can do that for you.

Cheers.



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Randy Johnson
Re: blackmagic and psystar- one more thing
on Sep 15, 2009 at 1:31:56 pm

2 things 1. I dont remeber anyone saying were using a $500 computer My i-7s have the best motherboards on the market with intel chip and cost about $1,200. Just because you pay a lot for a computer doesnt mean its any better. Id put my i-7 up against a Mac pro any day. in fact its better because it can properly run Windows too. The difference between one of mine and a Mac pro or a Boxx is your paying $1500 to have someone put it together and give you a warranty. Which is important if you dont have the ability to maintain your own machine but its not to me.

Randy Johnson
Rando1968@comcast.net


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Margus Voll
Re: blackmagic and psystar- one more thing
on Sep 15, 2009 at 2:48:18 pm

In the beginning the post was not if it is possible to use self built computer but does mac os support BM on non apple machine.

Yes you can work on "self-made" machine on windows perfectly. I have built all my win machines and they work perfect if you know what you are doing. If you want to use mac os then there is a reason for that.
Only the possibilities to use them are limited a bit.




--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu


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Aristides Tiropolis
Re: blackmagic and psystar- one more thing
on Sep 15, 2009 at 5:58:31 pm

Randy this is where you are wrong, a desktop motherboard is clearly not the same as server based one like the one on BOXX\'s or Mac pro\'s.... it goes through more testing, it supports ECC memory, has dual sockets, supports xeon processors, it\'s bios is properly made and tested and the build quality is better. Comparing these machines is besides the point anyway...



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Randy Johnson
Re: blackmagic and psystar- one more thing
on Sep 15, 2009 at 8:15:34 pm

o.k. best on the desktop market I think you were trying to read into what I was saying. Yes server boards are "beefer" than desktop boards are very reliable. I dont think (in the editing world) that a server board is going to last that much more than a good desktop board. The question I have is What can I Mac pro do that a home made intel machine with OSX on it cant do? I mean that sincerly is there something that a $3000+ can do that my $1500 cant? Hey I build my own machines and I know most folks dont have the know how or the time to deal with service and unfortunatly have to spend bigger bucks but if you go cheaper why not? Spend more money on cameras. I know we have really gone off track and we will have to agree to disagree but to answer the original post from my experiance with my 2 systems YES you can run FCP and YES BM intensity pro both work fine. I cant speak for the other BM products because I dont have them.

Randy Johnson
Rando1968@comcast.net


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Aristides Tiropolis
Re: blackmagic and psystar- one more thing
on Sep 15, 2009 at 10:33:59 pm

[Margus Voll] "One thing some RED people are testing is 17" MBP with pci extender or something like that for red rocket."

Well I'd be surprised if they succeeded since the MBP (all laptops with ExpressCard) uses an x1 PCIe lane and I'd imagine the Red rocket will need a little more punch than that.


[Margus Voll] "
I have no idea about the cost but generally it is possible in theory and then you could have your mobile, home, testing machine. No mandatory 8 cores"


It could work if you don't have much rendering and don't put much pressure on the machine, but this is rarely the case for people, still it could work for some. I actually use my laptop only for mobile uses.



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Simon Blackledge
Re: blackmagic and psystar- one more thing
on Sep 16, 2009 at 11:14:17 am

"Well I'd be surprised if they succeeded since the MBP (all laptops with ExpressCard) uses an x1 PCIe lane and I'd imagine the Red rocket will need a little more punch than that."


R3d's run at about 36MBs so as long as the only thing is the r3d data going out and playback is only on the external monitor I don't see why it shouldn't work.





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Margus Voll
Re: blackmagic and psystar- one more thing
on Sep 16, 2009 at 11:15:44 am

And Pro rez is not much more either. It should be less.

--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu


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Ricardo Ellstein
Re: blackmagic and psystar
on Oct 22, 2009 at 11:31:26 pm

What I'm curious about is using a dual OS machine with a RAID array. First of all there's the issue of compatibility with the RAID card... but it seems that wouldn't be a problem since people have had few problems getting various PCI cards to work well in these computers (like BM).

The problem I see is that mac drives are formatted differently than windows drives. If you formatted your array in windows it probably wouldn't work well when you switched to OSX and viceversa... so that makes the idea of having a BM card in these systems irrelevant for us.

There are solutions like MacDrive, but I don't know how well that would work... and if it did it would most likely make your array lag since there are more processes required.

For editing uncompressed content in a semi-economic fashion Apple still wins out (especially now with the horrendous CS4 "update" to Premiere).


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