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Why Blackmagic doesn't offer support for 25p

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Sebastian Toro
Why Blackmagic doesn't offer support for 25p
on May 12, 2009 at 1:13:32 am

If you read the Specs of almost all products they don't offer support for 25p.

Also one time i ask for some troubles i have trying to capture 25p footage through HDSDI i was redirected to read a note at the DECKLINK website.

I reproduce a part of this note...

We deliberately do not include a 1080p 25Hz easy setup although it would be easy to do as the card is programmable. Most people use 1080i/50 with both interlaced and progressive video. There is a 1080p 25Hz format but it's incredibly rare and we haven't had many requests for it. We haven't included a 1080p easy setup for 25Hz as it would cause confusion and DeckLink users would then use the wrong easy setup in many cases.


I ask to Decklink guys, is this format the same incredible rare now in 2009?

Also the note refers to playback and timelines for 25p footage but dont said nothing about capturing this 25p footage.



Thanks in advance.




sebastian toro -
sinsistema.tv -
bs.as. argentina


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Kristian Lam
Re: Why Blackmagic doesn't offer support for 25p
on May 12, 2009 at 2:11:07 am

Hi Sebastian,

What is the device you're using that's sending out 1080p25?



regards

Kristian Lam
Blackmagic Design


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Michael Lyas
Re: Why Blackmagic doesn't offer support for 25p
on May 12, 2009 at 7:46:47 am

Hi

Can add to this question as well, but be more specific and aim the question at the Intensity Pro.

I live in PAL land and shoot with a little Canon Vixia HF 10

I like to shoot in 1080 25p, but I can Shoot in 1080i I usually Log and Transfer in ProRes HQ

Does the Intensity capture ACVHD ?

If not can the Intensity card simply just allow me to monitor the ProRes Output from FCP Studio 2 once I've Log and Transfered my AVCHD files?

Cheers

Michael


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Sebastian Toro
Re: Why Blackmagic doesn't offer support for 25p
on May 12, 2009 at 4:37:01 pm

We are working with different type of digital cameras. Red, SI2k, Phantom and previously and only one time Weisscam.

We also receive footage from Arri D21 recorded in for over crancked 50 fps into 2 x 25psf 1080 422 and have some troubles during captures besides the P or PSF subject.
this was related to a version of 2 x 422 HD SDI streaming over HD SDI Dual Link that SR deck allows.
At that oportunity we are dealing with 50fps capture but this could also be used for generate 2 x 25psf for stereo footage.

The other cameras records true 25p and many send this trough HDSDI single 422(Phantom) or double link 444(RED).

what do you recommend to have te option for monitoring this kind of footage.

Probably a better support for cineform codec inside Mac will be a great solution to avoid uncompressed.



thanks in advance

sebastian toro -
sinsistema.tv -
bs.as. argentina


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Ian Lewis
Re: Why Blackmagic doesn't offer support for 25p
on May 13, 2009 at 12:39:47 pm

I have a Blackmagic HD EXtreme and I've captured and replayed 1080/25p through HD/SDI from HDCAM with no problems, and edited/monitored 1080/25p from EX-1/EX-3 routinely with no problems.

(Cineform's next version, coming soon, will be able to use Blackmagic cards for monitoring.)
Ian



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Keith Pratt
Re: Why Blackmagic doesn't offer support for 25p
on May 13, 2009 at 1:47:01 pm

I've requested genuine 25p in the past. I agree with Sebastian that in 2009 it is not a rare format. Ian, what version of the Extreme are you using. I have the second iteration and it only outputs PsF (i.e. interlaced).


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Sebastian Toro
Re: Why Blackmagic doesn't offer support for 25p
on May 13, 2009 at 2:03:07 pm

Hi ian... i think that the hdcam and the ex series send 25psf. also about this... the BM product sheets sometimes doesnt includes this format compatibility but includes the 1080i50 format. is this the same for our records about format support of the boards...

why you put 25psf sometimes an other times doesn't mention in the specs. this is confusing... altought 25p i think isn't in any spec of the product line...

thanks in advance



sebastian toro -
sinsistema.tv -
bs.as. argentina


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Ian Lewis
Re: Why Blackmagic doesn't offer support for 25p
on May 13, 2009 at 2:18:10 pm

Yes, my fingers might have been too quick for my brain. However, in the same support document (I guess) that Sebastian began with, BM also say:

"If you really need to do 1080p/25, you will want to avoid rendering frames by modifying the easy setup in Final Cut Pro HD:
1. Launch Final Cut Pro HD
2. Select a Blackmagic HDTV 1080i 50 easy setup and then create a new project.
3. Go to the Final Cut Pro HD menu and choose Audio/Video Settings.
4. Click on the Sequence Settings tab.
5. Click on the desired Blackmagic HDTV 1080i 50 preset and choose Duplicate and then Edit the new preset.
6. Change the Field Dominance to None.

You should now be able to work in 1080p 25Hz without rendering."
Ian



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Kristian Lam
Re: Why Blackmagic doesn't offer support for 25p
on May 15, 2009 at 7:57:45 am

Hi Sebastian,

You're right. Sony VTR uses the PsF transport method and we don't currently support true P capture and playback, only PsF.

The question is if there is a display out there that takes a progressive (not PsF) HD-SDI signal for monitoring? Could you point me to one?





regards

Kristian Lam
Blackmagic Design


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Sebastian Toro
Re: Why Blackmagic doesn't offer support for 25p
on May 15, 2009 at 1:51:41 pm

Oh kristian i try...

Ecinema, FSI, Panasonic plasmas and lcd video monitors. in think also JVC lcd video displays and also proyectors.
Look at their specs. And please try to give me an answer for my previous questions.

Why do you metion p / psf sometimes and sometimes not. This is confussing. Can you clarify this for me?
look at your records.

ULTRASCOPE SPECS. Spport for true p but no psf HD Format Support 1080p 23.98/24/50/59.94, 1080i50, 1080i59.94, 720p50 and 720p59.94.
(3 Gb/s RGB 4:4:4 and 2K not supported.)


HD LINK PRO SPECS (DVI-D support) psf for 1080 and true p for 2k. 1080PsF23.98, 1080PsF24, 1080i48, 1080i50, 1080i59.94, 1080i60, 720p50, 720p59.94, 720p60, 2048 x 1556p23.98 and 2048 x 1556p24.

MINI CONVERTERS SPECS 625/25 PAL, 525/29.97 NTSC, 1080PsF23.98, 1080PsF24, 1080PsF25, 1080i50, 1080i59.94, 1080i60, 720p50, 720p59.94 and 720p60.

MULTIBRIDGE PRO specs 720p50, 720p59.94, 1080PsF23.98/24, 1080i48, 1080i50 and 1080i59.94.

and the other solution i am looking forward...

How can i use the SR deck modes for different dual streams option.

ARRI D21 also use this mode for recording a true anamorphic image. We have a IRIDAS SPEEDGRADE SUITE that can reproduce this incredible rare format.
We also have a Multibridge Pro2 and we want to use it for our main workflows that now are changing to true progressive. (also this format 25p will be very common for mastering DIGITAL CINEMA in PAL LAND)

regards and thanks for your help.





sebastian toro -
sinsistema.tv -
bs.as. argentina


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