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HDLink 2 problems with 23.98sf and HDMI

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Aaron Neitz
HDLink 2 problems with 23.98sf and HDMI
on Apr 17, 2009 at 6:32:42 pm

I'm trying to use an HDLINK 2 as an SDI to DVI/HMDI converter for a consumer Panasonic plasma.

We're working in 1080 23.98sf. But the TV won't recognize the signal coming from the HDLINK at this setting. 1080i, 720p, SD are fine.

I also have an AJA HDP which DOES work feeding 1080sf to the plasma.

Is there a setting that needs to get switched, or is this a known issue?



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Luke Maslen
Re: HDLink 2 problems with 23.98sf and HDMI
on Apr 21, 2009 at 2:46:29 am

Hi Aaron,

The original HDLink and HDLink 2 support 1080PsF23.98 and 1080PsF24 via DVI but not via HDMI and you can find the details of these differences in the support note named HDLink unsupported video formats in HDMI mode.

HDLink Pro (US$495) and HDLink Optical Fiber (US$795) both support 1080PsF23.98 and 1080PsF24 via DVI and HDMI.

There are quite a few HDMI TV's which do not support 23.98p and 24p signals. If the current HDLinks receive these signals and detect that the TV will not support them, they will automatically apply pulldown processing and output 1080i59.94 which the TV is sure to support. This is great if your TV is incapable of handling these signals as the HDLink makes it possible to see the video image.

Regards,

Luke Maslen
Blackmagic Design


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David Phillips
Re: HDLink 2 problems with 23.98sf and HDMI
on Apr 21, 2009 at 4:31:28 pm

Hi Luke,

Can you tell me if the new HDlink Pro supports HDMI v1.3 and 10-bit color depth? In other words, if you input a 10-bit SDI signal, does it pass a 10-bit or 8-bit to the HDMI out?

thanks,
david



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Luke Maslen
Re: HDLink 2 problems with 23.98sf and HDMI
on Apr 22, 2009 at 2:28:42 am

Hi David,

HDLink Pro currently doesn't use HDMI 1.3 but I think it could as there's a lot of spare capacity on the chip in the HDLink so we can probably upgrade the quality with a firmware update. The engineers are at NAB, so I can't check with them this week, but that is what I recall from hearing some conversations between our engineers. As we're not currently using HDMI 1.3, this means that any 10-bit YUV or RGB signal received on the HDLink input are output via HDMI as YUV 10-bit. In other words, we perform a colorspace conversion if HDLink receives an RGB signal and is connected to an HDMI display. As you may know, DVI displays are always RGB and are always 8-bit because that is what the DVI standard requires. So any YUV 10-bit or RGB 10-bit signal received by HDLink is output as RGB 8-bit otherwise it wouldn't work on the DVI display. Finally, while some HDMI displays advertize "10 bit processing", the displays themselves are usually only 8-bit and I'm confused by whether any displays truly have an all 10-bit RGB path as the technical specifications never seem clear enough on that point. In any case, if there are HDMI displays with an all 10-bit or higher bit RGB path, then we should be able to add a firmware update to HDLink to support that. I'd also be interested in learning of any HDMI displays that readers of this forum believe are fully 10-bit RGB including the display. My feeling is that no processing should be required if the display is 10-bit RGB native so I suspect that "10-bit processing" means that the HDMI display is probably a YUV display but that's just my speculation. Maybe there are some true 10-bit RGB HDMI displays and I'd love to hear about them as we could then buy some and test with them to see if we can add support.

Regards,

Luke Maslen
Blackmagic Design


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David Phillips
Re: HDLink 2 problems with 23.98sf and HDMI
on Apr 22, 2009 at 3:19:24 am

Thanks, Luke. As far as 10-bit displays, the HP Dreamcolor monitor, for instance, supports billions of colors through a HDMI 1.3 connection (and DisplayPort) and has profiles for Recs. 601 and 709. Eizo has a couple of 10-bit native displaya, I think.

http://www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/382087-382087-64283-72270-444767-364...'>http://h10010.http://www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/382087-382087-64283-72270-444767-364...

Please let us know when you have feedback from the BM engineering team.

-david


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Luke Maslen
Re: HDLink 2 problems with 23.98sf and HDMI
on Apr 22, 2009 at 5:15:15 am

Hey David,

Thank you very much for the reference to that monitor. I've checked it out and it looks good so I think we'll get one soon for testing as HP make some really nice monitors. We already use their 30" DVI monitor for 2K monitoring but this DreamColor monitor looks very nice for color work. I'll also do some homework on the Eizo site as we have previously been very impressed with their monitors and I'll be very happy if they've got something suitable.

Regards,


Luke Maslen
Blackmagic Design


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Aaron Neitz
Re: HDLink 2 problems with 23.98sf and HDMI
on Apr 23, 2009 at 6:58:41 pm

An engineer I ran into in LA says he tested the Dreamcolor and found it pretty horrible.... they couldn't get it to match the color on a CRT.

Eizo however make GREAT little LCD's. We use them on our Flame. The only problem with them is their viewing angle is pretty narrow



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Luke Maslen
Re: HDLink 2 problems with 23.98sf and HDMI
on Apr 24, 2009 at 12:43:15 am

Thanks Aaron,

That is good to know.

Regards,

Luke Maslen
Blackmagic Design


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Sean Donnelly
Re: HDLink 2 problems with 23.98sf and HDMI
on Apr 30, 2009 at 2:51:29 pm

I use an EIZO CG241w with and HDLink Pro box and have been very impressed with it, although the viewing angle does leave a bit to be desired. It is in fact an 8 bit panel, however it uses 12 bit processing for internal gamma/white point correction. I'm interested to see the CG232w which should be out soon, which has SDI and DVI.

-Sean Donnelly
Digital Supervisor, SFI


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Leigh Christopher
Re: HDLink 2 problems with 23.98sf and HDMI
on May 22, 2009 at 8:08:48 am

Luke

According to this PDF, Blackmagic Design already uses the HP Dreamcolor.

http://www.nexustech.com.ph/hpnewsletter1/files/blackmagic-design-colour-th...

This is actually the document which got me interested in this monitor.

The issue is that the monitor needs 10bit RGB through the HDMI and as you stated above, it only outputs YUV on HDMI. Is it possible to add an option to output 10Bit RGB to the HDMI Out from the Decklink Extreme 3? This would allow one to use the Dreamcolor with purchasing a converter as explained in the white paper linked below.

The relevant papers are at the bottom of this link:

http://www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/DocumentIndex.jsp?contentType=Sup...'>http://h20000.http://www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/DocumentIndex.jsp?contentType=Sup...

Look for the very last white paper called:
"Using the HP DreamColor LP2480zx Monitor for Professional Video Applications"
which explains the current situation quite well.

It looks like a good solution but there isn't a lot of feedback on how well it works. I'm hoping to try it soon.




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Byron Lamarque
Re: HDLink 2 problems with 23.98sf and HDMI
on Jul 15, 2009 at 10:54:42 pm

Hello Luke,

Thanks for your response regarding the Blackmagic HDLink. Can you confirm that the current HDLink is upgradable to HDMI v1.3 via firmware? I have purchased an HP Dreamcolour monitor, HD Extreme video card and am keen to purchase the HDLink as I really appreciate the six channels of audio. I however need the 10bit RGB 4:2:2 Progressive HDMI output for the Dreamcolour monitor.

Best,

Byron.


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