FORUMS: list search recent posts

WHY WOULD I NEED a DeckLink HD Extreme if I can capture via firewire?

COW Forums : Blackmagic Design

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Adam Coyle Roach
WHY WOULD I NEED a DeckLink HD Extreme if I can capture via firewire?
on Mar 4, 2009 at 5:06:29 pm

Guys, can you give me a bit of advice please? I bought a whole studio worth of gear and I'm selling off what I don't think I'll need.
I shoot on a DVX100b and will use FCP and Shake on my octo-core Mac Pro. Should I keep the DeckLink HD Extreme card or sell it off (I have an offer for $800 ATM). I guess I could export to a hd lcd for a cheap broadcast monitor alternative...is that right? What else could I do with it?

I hope to hear from you guys soon, I really value your opinions.
Thanks in advance,
-adam



















I don't have a message signature, and I'm comfortable with that.


Return to posts index

Aristides Tiropolis
Re: WHY WOULD I NEED a DeckLink HD Extreme if I can capture via firewire?
on Mar 4, 2009 at 7:49:47 pm

The DVX100 is a DV camera. It has only DV output through the 1394 port and no Component/SDI/HDMI outputs.
There is absolutely no gain in capturing with the Decklink card.
The big question is: Do you plan on getting a better camera, or capturing from a deck with SDI and serial control?
If yes, then the Decklink is a hardware you may want to keep.

What is your deliverable? If it is just DVD, then again you do not require the Decklink.

Do you require color timing your videos and previewing to a broadcast monitor? Are you planning on getting one in the near future? If not...well you know the answer...

You can always convert the DV files to ProRes or uncompressed for compositing in Shake or CC in Color etc..No need for the card again.



Return to posts index

Adam Coyle Roach
Re: WHY WOULD I NEED a DeckLink HD Extreme if I can capture via firewire?
on Mar 4, 2009 at 8:32:43 pm

Thanks so much for the reply - I guess the question i would ask you is, what is the aftermarket value of the decklink card down the line. Will I be able to buy it for like $200 in the future when i get a HD cam, or should I hang on to it because they hold their value? Do you follow? I mean, I'm not desperate to sell it, but if it makes sense to - i will.

my current deliverable is pretty low-fi, either DVD or .mov, as broadcast is potentially just local sd community channel.

Could someone briefly list me the features of this card - in LAYMANS terms please? That would be super helpful.

thanks again
-adam





I don't have a message signature, and I'm comfortable with that.


Return to posts index


Bob Zelin
Re: WHY WOULD I NEED a DeckLink HD Extreme if I can capture via firewire?
on Mar 4, 2009 at 8:41:03 pm

these cards exist so you can capture video media from professional VTR's and cameras (and video switchers), and then output to monitors, and different VTR's for delivery.

But imagine this. Imagine the whole world was DV25. Just firewire. No Beta VTR's. No Sony HDCam, Panasonic DVCProHD, no Sony SRW5500.
Just the web. You shoot in DV, input via firewire, edit and create your shows, and encode for the web. No other equipment. And this is how broadcast TV was watched (like with Apple TV, or ultimately a better version of YouTube).

Do you know what would happen?
Every company on these forums (including Blackmagic) would be out of business. There would be no hi end video production, because DV25 would be "good enough". Only Apple would exist. We would all starve. Soon school children would be producing the shows that you create, because creativity is everything, and the "story" is all that counts - not the technology. So we would be in the streets, all begging for food, because DV25 (and it's successor - which by the way would be wireless, so you don't even need the FW cable) would be good enough for everything that is required for professional shows, music videos, features, corporate presentation, etc.

We would have to all gather at NAB, and drink the large vat of Kool-Aid, because it would ALL be over. Now, do you want this to be our fate ? Do you? Strive for excellence - say that NOTHING is good enough quality. Strive for HD, strive for 2K, 4K, and RED Epic 28K, and don't make firewire "good enough".

Besides, it is common knowlege that all employees of Blackmagic are
now required to drive Ferrari's, so we have to keep that flow of money going to Australia. It takes a lot of Decklink Cards to buy a Ferrari !

Bob Zelin




Return to posts index

Adam Coyle Roach
Re: WHY WOULD I NEED a DeckLink HD Extreme if I can capture via firewire?
on Mar 4, 2009 at 8:57:28 pm

Umm...thanks for the info mr zelin...did you read my post or just the title?

Incidentally, your diatribe was appreciated, though not really warranted, as you're preaching to the choir, but i WOULD love your input on my question: does it make sense to sell this off now and buy one for dirt cheap when it comes time for an hd workflow or should i keep hold of it since i'm not desperate for the cash.

I don't have a message signature, and I'm comfortable with that.


Return to posts index

Joshua Helling
Re: WHY WOULD I NEED a DeckLink HD Extreme if I can capture via firewire?
on Mar 4, 2009 at 9:47:47 pm

Bob has some excellent points there. Truth is, that firewire is good enough for a lot of things. But it is not the best. And people are always pushing for the best. The best leads to the best being "good enough" when something better comes along. It's a cycle

***Sent from my Ferrari***

Sincerely,

Joshua
Director of Support
Blackmagic Design Inc.


Return to posts index


Aristides Tiropolis
Re: WHY WOULD I NEED a DeckLink HD Extreme if I can capture via firewire?
on Mar 4, 2009 at 10:14:18 pm

I find that the biggest misconception lies in the fact that firewire is somehow "connected" to a video codec like DV, when it clearly is just a reliable external computer bus which can carry anything (within limits) we tell it to.

So the question is not if firewire is good enough in a generic term but what exactly are one's requirements in a specific time in quality/workflow/portability/budget/ease of use and many other parameters.
Perhaps an extreme example but, Danny boyle and his DP found that the best solution for shooting in India's slums was to (partially) use the SI 2k camera, a laptop and the Cineform codec. They would get definitely better image quality from 35mm film or an ARRI D21 and log files, but their requirements were different in this project.



Return to posts index

Bob Zelin
Re: WHY WOULD I NEED a DeckLink HD Extreme if I can capture via firewire?
on Mar 5, 2009 at 1:04:42 am

firewire is usually considered "DV25", or DV/NTSC, based on what Apple preaches in FCP's easy setups. OF course, as you stated, Firewire 400 is a hi speed interface, that can pass alot more than a 25Mb/sec signal. For the masses, firewire connection = DV25, even though this is technically inaccurate.

To answer the question - keep the Decklink HD Extreme. It is an EXCELLENT product, that you will (hopefully) use in future higher paying projects. Will it be obsolete 3 years from now - sure it will, but people cut feature films on AVID Meridian systems that are worth nothing today.

Bob Zelin




Return to posts index

Adam Coyle Roach
Re: WHY WOULD I NEED a DeckLink HD Extreme if I can capture via firewire?
on Mar 5, 2009 at 6:51:07 pm

OK Bob and everyone else. Thanks for your input. Bob, I'll take your advice and hang onto it - i do hope to be in the position to make use of it at some stage.

I don't have a message signature, and I'm comfortable with that.


Return to posts index


Tracy Peterson
Re: WHY WOULD I NEED a DeckLink HD Extreme if I can capture via firewire?
on Mar 6, 2009 at 3:19:27 pm

Ok, let me jump in here a sec...

If it were me and I was using a DV camera only, and not outputting to a deck or importing video from a deck, I'd sell the card. I worked with my DVX for two years with only firewire and never had the need for a deck or SDI.

Fact is, you won't be killing the industry by only working in DV and monitoring via firewire through your camera. You can even preview NTSC after effects projects this way. It's neat, I've done it.

As you can do all the really cool stuff that Bob mentioned, up to but not including destroying the lives of thousands of professionals, you could probably get your 800 while it's still worth that, then get the gear you need later when you need it. 800 buys a lot of mini-dv tape stock, or even a quality lighting kit or great mics.

See, quality is important, but it seems like you don't need that quality yet. If you were using a camera with SDI outs, or a camera that circumvented the compression chips to an output, the decklink would be necessary. As it is, it seems like for you it's just an expensive monitoring solution (800 plus monitor for NTSC, meh, get a TV)

There's room in the world for high end sports tuning shops and the shade tree mechanic as well.

Tracy Peterson
http://www.onetwomany.com


Return to posts index

Kristian Lam
Re: WHY WOULD I NEED a DeckLink HD Extreme if I can capture via firewire?
on Mar 19, 2009 at 12:02:03 am

Hi Bob,

I think there are a few companies running the line that compressed workflows are all you need, and I think it's because they are trying to sell products that use FireWire and store video on memory cards.

I think this is where this "compressed workflow and all you will ever need" line is coming from. 

There are some good workflow advantages to this, and it's an exciting new direction, but I agree with you Bob, the television industry is much more complex. And high end television production and TVCs often mandate higher quality compressed or uncompressed 10 bit. 

I also think SDI is going to be around for a very long time, and it's the only open standard that anyone can build products for that handles the highest quality. SDI also lets you plug into anything and always keeps your quality perfect.

Also, I mentioned your Ferrari comment to Grant, and he laughed, and told me to let you know that "the moment I ever go and buy a $@#%^ Ferrari then Bob can personally come over and kick my ass!". The closest Grant's come to buying a red Ferrari is he just purchased a new bright red Honda Fit. Our director of worldwide marketing also drives a Honda Fit, and I think they're so great, I have one too. I think we are a long way from buying Ferrari's at the prices we charge for our products at Blackmagic! And as it should be.



regards

Kristian Lam
Blackmagic Design


Return to posts index

Margus Voll
Re: WHY WOULD I NEED a DeckLink HD Extreme if I can capture via firewire?
on Mar 7, 2009 at 7:39:34 am

Sell all your pro gear and go with paper and glue.
It is a bit short sighted to go on and get better on professional arena with such vision in your profession.



--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu


Return to posts index


Tracy Peterson
Re: WHY WOULD I NEED a DeckLink HD Extreme if I can capture via firewire?
on Mar 7, 2009 at 7:55:12 am

Huh

"Sell all your pro gear and go with paper and glue.
It is a bit short sighted to go on and get better on professional arena with such vision in your profession"

I see you have plenty of money to spare, keeping it tied up in gear you don't use. Good for you. Actually you probably use yours, Margus, again good for you. I think what I read earlier is that he doesn't use his.

My advice is based on financial principal, but obviously if you want to be taken seriously by professionals don't take my advice. This appears to be shortsighted vision in the opinion of real professionals.

Everyone seems to be in defense of high quality, even me, but I'm saying to you that if you can use the money to purchase quality gear that you actually use, go for it. I recommend microphones or lighting as they both add to a quality product.

Apparently that is a terrible affront to professional values and I lack professional vision in this professional world, but whatever, it works for me and I have a well rounded working studio that I am able to improve over time.

Whatever you decide, don't forget to have fun while you are being professional, you professional, you.



Tracy Peterson
http://www.onetwomany.com


Return to posts index

Margus Voll
Re: WHY WOULD I NEED a DeckLink HD Extreme if I can capture via firewire?
on Mar 7, 2009 at 8:22:44 am

Ofcourse one should consider business mathers but it is a bit different than saying that quality etc tech stuff is not important.

I belive there is annother list on cow for business ideas etc.

No fence.

Professionals only horizon is to make ultimate on the field he/she is working as business owner to make money artist to make art and technical person to make reliale good systems (sometimes in budget).



--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu


Return to posts index

Tracy Peterson
Re: WHY WOULD I NEED a DeckLink HD Extreme if I can capture via firewire?
on Mar 7, 2009 at 8:51:01 am

I think I agree with you about trying to make the best work possible and I think most people who seek advice come here because they have that mentality.

In my own philosophy, I try to improve all of the things that I can. If you only edit and don't shoot, then my advice for lights and mics doesn't matter and keeping the card makes more sense, I suppose :) I'm just putting it out there as an alternate point of view.

I also get a little over touchy when people question each other's professionalism here. Cheers. I like the commercial work on your site, very good color and images, must have been a good capture setup ;)

Tracy Peterson
http://www.onetwomany.com


Return to posts index


Adam Coyle Roach
Re: WHY WOULD I NEED a DeckLink HD Extreme if I can capture via firewire?
on Mar 8, 2009 at 7:57:52 pm

Wow, did I touch a nerve or something? lol
Thanks for the advice Tracey, I deserately need lighting and a couple wireless mics actually, so i could use the money from the sale fo the card for that, but i know how fast thigns can change, and 2 months from now i might need to buy another card if i sell this one, so ill hang on to it i think, and just use more capital to source other gear i need.
- adam





I don't have a message signature, and I'm comfortable with that.


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]