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CS4.....what's going on?

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Brett Howe
CS4.....what's going on?
on Dec 2, 2008 at 6:03:49 am

Blackmagic....what's going on? I am very dissapointed with the CS4 compatability progress.

I am currently writing an article for a mag, running CS4 through it's paces on VISTA, and the lack of support from Blackmagic is bewildering to say the least. No reply on the tech support, and suspicious silence from any blackmagic bods on the forums. Looks like you dropped the ball on this one!

a./ Where is the CS4 support?
b./ Where is any information for users on CS4 Support? Certainly nothing on your website..nothing in search...just nothing!
c./ Why has it taken so long?
d./ How come you have time to hold roadshows singing and dancing about blackmagic and ADOBE, while your customers browse the web searching for an alternative output solution?
e./ How about at least giving registered users access to a beta driver?


Brett Howe
Creative Director / Producer
Brave Vision Pty Ltd


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Bill Buchanan
Re: CS4.....what's going on?
on Dec 2, 2008 at 3:39:34 pm

I and no doubt many others second Brett's post/questions. Let's get it in gear BMD.

Bill Buchanan
Buchanan Film Co.


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Aristides Tiropolis
Re: CS4.....what's going on?
on Dec 2, 2008 at 7:28:02 pm

What is really stopping any professional from working on CS3 and Blackmagic cards, right here, right now?

It's not like there's no support for Vista or i.e x64, but even then there's always "the now" working solution suggested by the company which one should follow in order for him/her to work on a project, that's the whole point isn't it?

They said they're working on supporting the new version, it's not like CS4 is out for 6 months or anything. There really is no need to go crazy right now, it will happen soon.

For me the most important aspects are the proper OMF, AAF support, RED support and the reset TC issues to be fixed. Oh! and 720p 25p Out, Support!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Some day I hope...

However we do know that we can more or less work right now with things as they are...I don't think programmers will do work faster, by complaining here...




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Brett Howe
Re: CS4.....what's going on?
on Dec 2, 2008 at 11:05:16 pm

This isn't about complaining or bitching about the product. I have a lot of respect for what black-magic have done thus far...and yes, of course we should stick with CS3 for production until the support is there...that's not the issue.

The issue here is one of communication. I don't know about the rest of you, but we are on pretty tight deadlines around here, and the only way we can work effectively, is to communicate. Communicate with our customers, communicate with each other, and manage everybody's expectations on completion dates. Simple. Everybody's happy.

So this is my first issue with the BM team. Get some info on your site, to let people know when they can expect to be able to upgrade.

For me, it's about taking a window of opportunity, between series, to upgrade the whole suite. OS and all. If I miss that window, well it's another 26 weeks before it will come around again....if I'm lucky.

The other issue also stems from communication. Communication between Adobe and BM. Adobe have BM listed, with a link, on their site, as an option for CS4, when clearly that is not yet the case. Everyday, somebody entering the market for the first time, and choosing BM, will be bitterly dissapointed. Frustrated, and generally unhappy. Nobody wins.

And lastly, it's about effective support. I find it hard to believe that BM didn't have access to Beta SDK's to get the drivers developed before, or within a few weeks of release. As it stands, companies are selling tunkey systems bundled with CS4 and BM hardware, (HP for example)...and they can't possibly work without the drivers. That's not good for anybody.

As for your comment on complaining won't make them program any faster, I beg to differ. In my experience, If I had customers out there grumbling about my services, and it's lack of progress, then I'd chuck more people on it, and pay the overtime, until the issue was sorted. Goodwill does have a value.

Lets hope BM gets the message. I for one will volunteer as a Beta Tester. Maybe that will help :)

We don't want another Canopus DV storm situation here. (your'e not working on your own editing packaage are you Blackmagic?...don't do it!)



Brett Howe
Creative Director / Producer
Brave Vision Pty Ltd


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Aristides Tiropolis
Re: CS4.....what's going on?
on Dec 2, 2008 at 11:57:58 pm

[Brett Howe] "I don't know about the rest of you, but we are on pretty tight deadlines around here, and the only way we can work effectively, is to communicate. Communicate with our customers, communicate with each other, and manage everybody's expectations on completion dates. Simple. Everybody's happy."

True, communication is important, however customer or internal team communication does not fall in the same category as product support for a specific hardware item, that is currently working.
I for one had always have good communication with the BM team regarding issues I might have had. I do agree on communicating future development and progress but we have seen different approaches from AVID and Apple.

[Brett Howe] "I find it hard to believe that BM didn't have access to Beta SDK's to get the drivers developed before, or within a few weeks of release. As it stands, companies are selling tunkey systems bundled with CS4 and BM hardware, (HP for example)...and they can't possibly work without the drivers. That's not good for anybody."

No one says they don't have access to BETA SDK's and I don't think they would be giving that kind of an excuse.
I'm with you however on the Bundled systems and the Adobe product website having Blackmagic as ready for CS4.

[Brett Howe] "If I had customers out there grumbling about my services, and it's lack of progress, then I'd chuck more people on it, and pay the overtime, until the issue was sorted. Goodwill does have a value."

Well this is half true I think, having had a past in IT I know that post production is not the same thing as programming and some times "chucking" more people on a project actually may create more problems and slow things down. More resources never hurt, but one cannot put it that simply, its more complicated in my view.

Cheers


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Bill Buchanan
Re: CS4.....what's going on?
on Dec 3, 2008 at 12:00:30 am

You're right, Aristides. We should never complain about anything for which we paid a lot of money when it doesn't work. BMD, Adobe et al. are doing us a huge favor just letting us purchase their products. And when they don't work or are not promptly updated or supported, we should be grateful, if not thrilled. Why, it's almost like being given a job for which there will be no compensation. "Hey, I gave you a job. You want to be paid, too!? Ungrateful cretin!"

Perhaps like you, I'm happiest when something doesn't work as advertised. Regarding BMD not promptly supporting CS4, I know now that I (and perhaps Brett, too) was way out of line by believing (and complaining) that BMD should have by now issued a CS4-supporting driver. And you--an astute detector of the obvious--were also right that we should just use CS3 for now. Well, I don't have CS3. So here I sit like the proverbial monkey with a cocoanut. I await further advice, Aristides.



Bill Buchanan
Buchanan Film Co


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Brett Howe
Re: CS4.....what's going on?
on Dec 3, 2008 at 12:15:10 am

Well put Bill.

You are indeed the type of customer I am referring to.

I'm just playing devils advocate here, as I still have suites running CS3, so I'm not so disadvantaged.

For your sake Bill, I hope they sort it soon. I'm sure your'e one of many who have upgraded from CS2, or purchased it outright for the first time.



















Brett Howe
Creative Director / Producer
Brave Vision Pty Ltd


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Aristides Tiropolis
Re: CS4.....what's going on?
on Dec 3, 2008 at 12:20:38 am

[Bill Buchanan] "You're right, Aristides. We should never complain about anything for which we paid a lot of money when it doesn't work. BMD, Adobe et al. are doing us a huge favor just letting us purchase their products. And when they don't work or are not promptly updated or supported, we should be grateful, if not thrilled. Why, it's almost like being given a job for which there will be no compensation. "Hey, I gave you a job. You want to be paid, too!? Ungrateful cretin!""

So, if there's a different opinion on a matter, the only course of action is to state an extreme edition of something that was never even actually said...Do you honestly think, that I believe that people shouldn't complain about anything and say thank you, even when they're on the right side?

[Bill Buchanan] "I know now that I (and perhaps Brett, too) was way out of line by believing (and complaining) that BMD should have by now issued a CS4-supporting driver. And you--an astute detector of the obvious--were also right that we should just use CS3 for now. Well, I don't have CS3. So here I sit like the proverbial monkey with a cocoanut. I await further advice, Aristides."


Who said that anyone is way out of line? I posted an opinion, but I don't recall being ironic towards you Bill, however I do have a comment since you said you already have CS4 and obviously cannot do anything with it...Although I agree Blackmagic obviously had a slip up when they couldn't make the CS4 release date, wasn't it possible to actually know if CS4 was supported prior to having it? Couldn't you have made a different decision?







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Tim Kolb
Re: CS4.....what's going on?
on Dec 3, 2008 at 1:03:32 am

AJA and Matrox also have yet to support CS4...

I can sympathize to a point with not having the system you had planned on, however this sort of a delay between a primary product and peripheral product isn't unusual.

I'd relax and ease up. I'm certain they want to sell you something as badly as you want to buy it...




TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,


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Brett Howe
Re: CS4.....what's going on?
on Dec 3, 2008 at 1:07:36 am

OK lads, settle down. I'm not feeling the love here anymore!

Bill, I can see you are frustrated. And fair enough, you have outlaid good money for a bucketload of troubles. All I can say is it will get better, and once you are up and running, you'll love it.

Aristides, you were always opening up a can of worms with your post. Yes, we can all make different choices, but to be honest, If Adobe says it's supported on their website, then generally that would be good enough for most. Interestly...I did a fresh search today, and there is no longer any such claims...that I can find. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place. Matter of fact, they now currently support NO HARDWARE officially, according to the online tool for such searches.

And this is where we finally come to the truth of the matter.

I have just had a nice email from one of the Blackmagic Software engineers. He states

"CS4 was released without any 3rd party hardware support. Support was promised to be included in the first patch, namely 4.01, which was made available the last week of November"

So ther was no opportunity for BM to support CS4 until 2 months after release

He continued to state "All hardware manufacturers, including Blackmagic, AJA, and Matrox are all in the same situation...no one has drivers readily available"

They are working on it NOW. All we can do is wait. If you want to give somebody a verbal bollocking...give it to ADOBE for not working more closely with the companies that make thier software a more professional option.

Now we wait.



Brett Howe
Creative Director / Producer
Brave Vision Pty Ltd


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Kristian Lam
Re: CS4.....what's going on?
on Dec 3, 2008 at 1:16:27 am

Hi guys,

Thanks for the comments and it's very heartening to see passionate discussion about Blackmagic Design.

We are indeed working on CS4 support and hard at it as well. I'm not trying to make excuses but implementing support for a new version of NLE is always tricky as there may be significant architectural changes that we have to cater for. With confidentiality agreements in place, it is also difficult for us to release any kind of information on our website, even though we would like to.

If you have any queries, please feel free to drop me a note: kristianl@blackmagic-design.com






regards

Kristian Lam
Blackmagic Design


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Baz Leffler
Re: CS4.....what's going on?
on Dec 3, 2008 at 11:17:10 pm

I think maybe the question maybe should be

'why did Adobe release CS4 without the 3rd party plugin capability?'

I think it was something more sinister and they had a reason that some may think was a little left of field....

Baz

What would I do without the 'UNDO' button!!!!


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Tim Kolb
Re: CS4.....what's going on?
on Dec 4, 2008 at 4:25:47 pm

[Baz Leffler] "
I think it was something more sinister and they had a reason that some may think was a little left of field...."


...like they ran out of time?



TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,


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Neil Bastin
Re: CS4.....what's going on?
on Jan 23, 2009 at 7:40:44 pm

Just to let everyone know, Matrox has already released Windows CS4 drivers for their RT.X2 cards, and the Axio drivers are just around the corner. They have been open and clear with their customers even before the CS4 release. Why can't BMD have that kind of customer relations policy?

To a lesser extent, this is like the Vista driver nightmare all over again. I too am worried about this driver situation because of my past experiences. For me, no configuration has worked as stable as the Premiere Pro 2.0 / Decklink 6.7.1 combination (which I still use today to avoid crashes in front of my clients), unlike CS3 which has been sluggish, riddled with bugs and very unstable from day one. But CS3 Software-only, although not perfect, is smooth and stable enough for doing offline cuts.

So my reasoning is this: if CS4 is going to perform as bad as CS3 on my Decklink HD Extreme card, I'm willing to wait as long as necessary for STABILITY (probably the most-needed feature in a professional environment) and sacrifice a couple of months of extra features.

But even so, I agree that BMD could be a bit more supportive of its customers and keep us better informed. Same goes for Adobe. In fact, Adobe is at fault for much more, but that's another subject.


Neil Bastin


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