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844/X Wish List

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844/X Wish List
on Dec 7, 2004 at 4:31:46 pm

Well the Holidays are coming, and though there is no update planned for a while, I figured we could start a thread about what we'd like to see in the next revision...

1. Motion Blur (similar to AE) for all Scaling, X, Y, and Z movement of a layer
2. Unlock the image buffer. Let us bring in images/video files bigger than 720x486 without cutting them off.
3. EQ
4. EQ
5. EQ did I mention EQ?
6. Option to split a stereo layer
7. Option to combine left and right channels into a stereo pair
8. True OMF support w/ range selection

What's on everyone else's wish list?

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Max Power
Re: 844/X Wish List
on Dec 7, 2004 at 6:48:28 pm

9. Tabbed windows. 844/X is way too window-happy as it is.

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Jöran Maaswinkel
Re: 844/X Wish List
on Dec 7, 2004 at 8:01:20 pm

The motion blur realtime like AE is nearly imposible, the effects that are now in 844/x are realtime in-stream effects and the motion blur like AE isn't.
EQ is coming soon very soon, I have worked during IBC with version with VST-plugins so that's available very soon.
The audio part is indeed weak and will be improved I guess in the coming release.
OMF/XML or AAF is also coming soon there press statement tell us that it will be there.
Large import file / graphic buffer is one of the hottest features as you could read earlier here on the COW.

I've heard the they are working on tabbed windows, but you can always use the Pharilea Card with a third screen like I have :-)

(see the picture if you click on my head)



Senior Editor at John Bake Postproductions
Personal Homepage
Media 100 844/X

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Tom Gillen
Re: 844/X Wish List
on Dec 7, 2004 at 9:46:54 pm

I was at Marlboro in late October and saw the tabbed windows for the bins. It's already part of the next upgrade. It is very cool.

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Aaron Johnson
Re: 844/X Wish List
on Dec 8, 2004 at 1:28:38 am

I use F11. That rotates thru all my open bins.

REL Productions
Des Moines, IA

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Glen Hurd
Re: 844/X Wish List
on Dec 7, 2004 at 10:51:24 pm

"6. Option to split a stereo layer
7. Option to combine left and right channels into a stereo pair "

are you referring to the "set stereo-mono parts" on audio clips, available by right-clicking on clips in a bin?

How about rotoscoping and matte use. Does anyone out there have use for it? I'm a little annoyed that a system capable of "8 layers of realtime" can't play 1 layer in realtime for scrubbing in a rotoscope session? Rotoscoping is like animation -- it's all about matching the timing of your subject, and without playback -- well you know what I mean.
How about being able lock mattes that aren't being tweaked, so you don't keep accidently adding new control points to masks beneath the one you are adjusting?
The control points are buggy -- zoom in on them and they are never where their visual indicators say they are.
I'd like the ability to hit a key ("u" in AE) and get all the created keyframes to show up in the curve tool so that I can select them across control points and manipulate them (or delete them) at once instead of one little hair at a time.

I've mentioned other compositing issues here, like sub-comp'd layers losing feathers and glows to their alpha channel (which exist nicely in their internal tracks), lack of gradient support for garbage mask. I assume these are bugs being worked on.
How about the ability to export video without a matte? Or . . . export video that can just as easily be imported without going through the "import" process. There is a bug there too, unfortunately. The imported version is less saturated and has less contrast than the exported clip. With no way to set range of luma parameters. (Just discovered that with a 75 GB export I did because the tonal correction had to be done in segments since the whole show wouldn't fit on the RAID. After importing the color-corrected timeline, I wondered if my monitor was on composite instead of component -- so drastic was the difference! OUCH)

Then we could talk about effects management. Just finished a 40+ minute show averaging 5 layers (as high as 11) with tonal correction applied to each little clip. Try making some changes and you'll feel like you're weaving a quilt with fly eyelashes. Especially where filter order is critical (like when associated with key-pulling and inner/outer glow filters). The current method of pasting new filters in, dragging them to the correct position in the heirarchy of filters (critical with key pulling elements) and deleting the old ones since they aren't automatically replaced is intimidating if not useless. (Perhaps this is why audio is such a small issue with me -- already have a DAW to handle that side of the equation.)
How about a tool that lets you select a range of clips, pull up a menu of available effects used by those clips, and then allows you to change all those clips' effects settings in one stroke (by dragging an updated effect to it, for example.) You could use it to delete a range of effects or simply reset that range to default settings. Now THAT would be power.

We could use reliable consolidation tools, that don't leave consolidated timelines with off-sync video. Or the ability to eliminate unwanted elements from a project without totally throwing out all your masks - used and otherwise. Since the PC seems limited to how much it can store in the trash (I can't get mine to go above 4 GB), the 844X could "trash" unused clips to a designated folder so that the project could be tested for reliability before the "unused" elements disappear.

The curves editor could be so much more than it is -- and it is a wonderful tool to start with. But it could be improved by allowing selection of keyframes from multiple parameters, across multiple effects. I shouldn't have to change a scale and motion parameter for a "landing" graphic one little channel at a time!!! Talk about ruining the sense of "real time." And the ability to create custom groups of those selected parameters would speed up the selection process. When we animate we rarely use just the move tool. Let the selections involve a group that automatically opens up motion, scale, rotation . . . with one click. And we should be able to select across all of them at once as well.
The curve tool could also add a range tool that lets you select a range in the curve editor, then a selection of effects that can have their keyframes deleted or scaled or moved or reset for that range -- this would be very useful in the rotoscoping arena as well.

Another big one for me would be some sort of linking tool between parameters of different layers -- a simplified "expression" tool (if not the full blown version AE has) so that motion from one clip can affect another without having to pre-compose. Even simple parenting would be huge. Seems simple enough in concept. And math-driven entries for all the realtime channels would be a boost too-- the random motion was a start. Click a little icon, enter some math, and watch things bounce and spin. We do it in AE all the time, and with the 844/X that would be real cool "real time."

Geesh. It's a compositing program. It should shock people, not make them wonder how it compares to another "editing" program.

Phew. That said, I should close saying I think the 844X has helped me personally to be a better compositor and graphic artist. You always hear "It's not the tool but the artist." I feel like adding "But the faster the feedback, the faster the growth." I love the speed of "feedback" for trying new things. The quality is top notch. It's easy integration with After Effects is a real plus. It just needs a few wrinkles worked out.
But compositing wrinkles first please! ;) Doh!!

Glen Hurd
DDG Production

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Re: 844/X Wish List
on Dec 8, 2004 at 1:41:45 am

what do you think about the transition feature.
I think this is basic in editting system.
Of course I can use the Boris Red or sapphire plug-in S/W for the transition
effect(like Cube DVE).
But I want to use it direct in 844/X easily.
Can't you think of some good idea?


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Re: 844/X Wish List
on Dec 8, 2004 at 3:57:44 am

Let's talk basic needs......

1. XML or edls that translate slow motion clips better from original "low rez" editing platforms like m100i. It subcomps the slow mo and then doesn't even show the clip. Gosh, what a waste of time doing the work around.

2. Audio tools of equal power to m100i or better. EQ, sub faders on tracks for overall track volume control, compression, catch my drift. (Maybe at NAB, I hear)

3. TIMECODE! Need to see the TC from different layers in a MENU window (or on each individual track) that displays various TC attributes, in addition to the 2 small tc windows at the bottom of the timeline. Also to borrow or "recreate" a function that would tie 2 clips TC together like the gang function on the avid. Helpful in multi cam editing.

4. Archiving. Being able to archive all graphic/video/program elements digitally to digibeta (like the flame) or a "collect files" function that gives you choices of what to archive and lay to firewire,dvd,etc. Big time saver when you have to start the next project.

5. Why must we wait so long for a deck control driver to load? Can we re-code it native to the program? Just wondering. (WasteOT)

the list does continue, but I want the new formed passion (with the help of the new financial support) to take this dynamic, steady, box of 844/x hardware and not only shape it into the ideal editing/compositing tool but to focus on the essentials and the basics for the editor/designer.

EDITOLOGY of 844/x

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MXF support !
on Dec 9, 2004 at 12:04:38 am

What do you think about the MXF support ?
We are examinig this now.

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John Ward
Re: 844/X Wish List
on Dec 9, 2004 at 1:47:05 pm

We would love large audio waveform display in the curve editor and ability to cut audio at sample level instead of just to frame ... not enough resolution right now.

Oh, yeah, keyframe and clip nudge would be nice, too ...
and all the things people have listed so far (especially compression and EQ).

John Ward
Editor / Animator,
Synergetic Productions

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Bruce Butler
Re: 844/X Wish List
on Dec 10, 2004 at 12:58:20 am

Speaking of the basics. Got to have a new CG!! Inscriber has got to go. Please, please give us Boris Graffiti!

Food and Drug Administration
Washington, DC

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Elliott Dunwody
Re: 844/X Wish List
on Dec 10, 2004 at 1:48:36 am

[Bruce Butler] "Please, please give us Boris Graffiti! "



Bright Blue Sky Productions
4811 Rivoli Dr
Macon, GA 31210

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Al J. Marschke
Re: 844/X Wish List
on Dec 15, 2004 at 3:36:53 pm

How about support for MPEG IMX. 2.5 x - 5x transfer of media from the new disc acquisition cameras.

Al J. Marschke
BluMars Media
Pittsburgh, PA

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