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Rob WarrenRED 2.0 and SQUARE PIXELS!
by on May 1, 2001 at 1:39:03 pm

Great! I just got my copy of RED 2.0. I figured since it didn't render clearly in Premiere 6.0 I could at least take advantage of it's standalone rendering. WHERE IS THE ASPECT SETTING FOR NON-SQUARE PIXELS? All I can find is 4:3, 16:9 and SQUARE. Thanks!

This is getting ridiculous. First RED doesn't work correctly in Premiere 6 and now it seems that the stand alone renderer doesn't even know how to use non-square pixels.

Hello? BorisFX? There are people out there with DV Footage that would ACTUALLY like to use their footage without making it look squashed. I know that sounds like a lot to ask but could you actually let us?

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Mark McKelveyRe: RED 2.0 and SQUARE PIXELS!
by on May 1, 2001 at 3:10:50 pm

I'm starting to feel...violated. This is what has happened to me with
software purchases in the last year: upgraded my BorisFX 3.5 to version 5 and got Graffiti for $450 (worked great in Premiere 5.1),
bought the Adobe Dynamic Media collection for $650 ( a steal!),then
bought Atomic Power's Evolution set for $299 (great price,right?),then
CultFX package for $200 (not bad I thought),got Premiere 6 upgrade for $160 (now Boris stuff doesn't work right).Adobe announces AE 5
which includes Evolution and CultFX! Well I bit the bullit and ordered
the upgrade from AE 4 Standard to AE 5 Production Bundle for $500
(too good to pass up right?) I'm wondering what will happen next!

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Tim WilsonRe: RED 2.0 and SQUARE PIXELS!
by on May 2, 2001 at 6:42:58 pm

Actually, what you should have done was upgrade to RED 2. :-) Not too late, either.

Another cool thing about R2 is that you don't have to render inside your host: create effects there, then render outside. It's one way to deal with the P6 rendering issue that we're working on as we speak: create your effects inside Premiere, but don't render there. :-)

And just to reiterate, RED 2 handles rectangular pixels fine - they're the default, in fact.

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Mark McKelveyRe: RED 2.0 and SQUARE PIXELS!
by on May 2, 2001 at 10:01:41 pm

Yes,let me go out in the back yard and see if anything has budded out
on my money tree....nope, it's still bare. Look, I'm sure Red is a
fantastic program but I don't have $1100 to spend, to get the two
programs I just bought from Artel six months ago, to work correctly.
What is the deal with this problem and is something being done to
fix it? Is there something I'm missing in the preference settings?
Project settings in Premiere? (my footage is Canopus DV)I went to
use Boris to do a color correction and the resulting footage looked
like *****. All fuzzy and the aspect ratio changed in the clip
causing it to *hop* when playing into and out of the clip.
I have over the last year and a half sung the praises of Boris 3.5
then FX5 and recently Grafitti on the Canopus forum- now with Premiere
6 I can't use either.

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Ron LIndeboomRe: RED 2.0 and SQUARE PIXELS!
by on May 2, 2001 at 11:35:20 pm

From what I understand, the problem lies in a change to the plug-in architecture of Premiere 6. It is not a problem that Boris can fix on their end. From what I've heard, Adobe is aware of the problem and is looking into it.

Best regards,

Ron Lindeboom

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Rob WarrenRe: RED 2.0
by on May 3, 2001 at 1:14:31 am

Since I have been making waves (not in RED however!) let me be the first to remind everyone how good BorisFX has been at identifying the problem and working to getting Adobe to notice it - Once the intial round of "Have you got your computer plugged in?" type of questions with Tim was over!


I will be VERY happy once it's fixed.


It seems like Boris RED can use DV (Type 1) files directly in the rendering engine. It acts like it can load them but then chokes. Is this a bug or must all clips be in QT format? It would be really great if it could use DV footage directly as it is captured from the camera. Saving a rendering step.

Just a suggestion.

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Mark McKelveyRe: RED 2.0
by on May 3, 2001 at 1:33:20 am

Thanks for the replies. I feel a little better knowing that it is
an acknowledged problem and it is being worked on.Don't want to
seem negative but I'm a little gun-shy from the Canopus-Raptor-Premiere driver ordeal.Canopus was not very forthcoming about the
development of it (when and if it would support all the new features)
for several months so I'm leary of being left out in the cold with
software that I invested that won't do what it needs to. Tim, one of
these days I will upgrade to Red :) but it will have to wait for now.
I would like to say that BorisFX and Grafitti are awesome tools and
do a lot that people aren't even aware of such as color and level
corrections on a par with dedicated programs like Vixen.I was also
hoping that this would be a Boris bug rather than an Adobe one-I think
it would get fixed faster!

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Susan VoseRe: RED 2.0
by on May 3, 2001 at 6:51:28 pm

Hi Rob, I am waiting to hear from our engineer on the Premiere render issue as to whether there is anything that we can do on our end to fix this. Ron is right though,there has been a change made in the Premiere plugin architecture since 5.1c. I will keep you posted on this.
As for the DV file issue, currently we support AVI and QT files, but now that we have made our debut as a standalone compositor, we will be hoping to add support for more filetypes such as common proprietary DV files, etc.

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Rob WarrenRe: RED 2.0
by on May 4, 2001 at 6:58:05 pm

I doubt you (BorisFX) will be able to do anything. It looks like Adobe doesn't give you the entire image to work with so it would seem impossible to "magically" work with pixels you don't have.

Let's hope Adobe takes their plug-in bug issue seriously.

The support of native the DV format for the engine would be FANTASTIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Keep up the good work!

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Rob WarrenRe: RED 2.0
by on May 4, 2001 at 8:52:54 pm

I just checked RED with the Premiere 6.01 update (beta?). Same thing.

No change.

In case anyone was hoping for a fix.

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Rich RubaschRe: RED 2.0 and SQUARE PIXELS!
by on May 1, 2001 at 3:11:08 pm

Did you try 4:3? If they have a Square setting then I would try 4:3 as their "Non Square" setting.

Just thinking out loud...

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media

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Tim WilsonRe: RED 2.0 and SQUARE PIXELS!
by on May 2, 2001 at 6:38:46 pm

Gold star for Rick. That's exactly how it works - we assume non-square pixels until told otherwise. I've suggested adding the words "non-square" or "rectangular" to the preferences UI just to avoid confusion.

Note that there's a teeny bug in RED 2 operating in standalone mode in this regard: make sure to turn OFF the choice that says "Conform to 4:3," which will force square pixels. That kinda makes sense since 640x480 is 4:3 and 720x480 is not, but it's still a bug that should be fixed in a patch coming soon.

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