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1080p / 23.976 / 10bit

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hd-encoding.com1080p / 23.976 / 10bit
by on Aug 29, 2007 at 1:10:33 am

Hey gang I just made the jump from BMD to Kona3. I am running an 8 proc new mac loaded w/ram and 30TB of fast enough raid all on a fabric switch running Xsan. Has anyone been capturing and outputting 1080p/10bit/23.976 on one of these new 8 proc machines? I understand that Kona3 cards can do 1080p in a 10bit space but I am having problems. I have to say that my old BMD system worked just fine both in and out in the same configuration. I am running into many issues that even Aja's and Apple's support teams do not have answers for. All capture and layoff is being done on a D5. Please remember I am working in 1080p not psf otherwise sometimes mistaken for interlaced. ;-)

hd-encoding.com
Blu-Ray to flash and everything in between


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JeremyGRe: 1080p / 23.976 / 10bit
by on Aug 29, 2007 at 2:10:59 am

[hd-encoding.com] "I am running into many issues"

Like what?


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gary adcockRe: 1080p / 23.976 / 10bit
by on Aug 29, 2007 at 2:25:06 am

[hd-encoding.com] "All capture and layoff is being done on a D5. Please remember I am working in 1080p not psf otherwise sometimes mistaken for interlaced"

LOL (and everyone thinks I am crazy when I bring this up_)


are you using the special p setups that have to be downloaded separately from the AJA sight

if so what are the issues you are having and what is your working setup?

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows


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hd-encoding.comRe: 1080p / 23.976 / 10bit
by on Aug 30, 2007 at 3:38:08 am

I guess what I am trying to figure out is, why when a D5 or a Sony deck is capable of out putting a 1080p signal are we not taking advantage of that 1080p as a straight to BluRay and HDDVD encode. (after compression of course) Encoders have been flipping interlaced signals for years into a progressive stream. What is Psf? Why don't we just call it INTERLACED? Everyone I talk to has a different idea of what Psf is as opposed to interlaced. Can some one clear this up please. We need someone to break this down in plain English not techwhanese. As an encoder all I care about is that I get true progressive frames as early on in my pipeline as I can. Thoughts?

hd-encoding.com
Blu-Ray to flash and everything in between


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gary adcockRe: 1080p / 23.976 / 10bit
by on Aug 30, 2007 at 11:04:47 am

[hd-encoding.com] "I guess what I am trying to figure out is, why when a D5 or a Sony deck is capable of out putting a 1080p signal are we not taking advantage of that 1080p as a straight to BluRay and HDDVD encode."

When I tested Ps3 for the EU launch earlier this year- I checked nearly 100 disk and did not find a single one that was true P - all were Psf. It is the default playback for all 1080 content.
(jump right to the credits and pause the screen- true P is razor sharp)

While True P can be captured on those decks, true P is almost non existent outside of animation and VFX work.

"What is Psf? Why don't we just call it INTERLACED? Everyone I talk to has a different idea of what Psf is as opposed to interlaced. Can some one clear this up please. We need someone to break this down in plain English not techwhanese"

The truth in labeling laws in the EU force it to be called 50i - there are no such requirements in the US.

from wikipedia page:
Each "true" progressive frame is separated into "segments", with the odd lines in one segment and the even lines in the other segment. This allows for a progressive picture to be processed through the same common electronic circuitry that is used to store, process and route interlaced video. The primary difference between PsF and interlaced video is motion. In PsF there is no motion between the two segments that make up the "progressive" frame while in interlaced there is typically motion between the "fields".





gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows


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weevie833Re: 1080p / 23.976 / 10bit
by on Aug 30, 2007 at 3:01:38 pm

PsF is interlace, but itt is not interlace as you know it in the conventional sense.

In standard def, and in "true" interlace HD, there is a temporal difference between fields. For example, if you had a baseball pitcher's arm movement in Still mode off of a SD or interlaced HD VTR, you would see jitter between the position of the arm in the even field and the odd field. Same phenomenon would appear if you had digitized an interlace image and paused a frame on FCP where the video card is set to display both fields - which I believe is a default in the AJA cards.

PsF simply takes a progressively recorded image and divides it into even and odd fields, but there is no progression of time in the recording between the two, thus the image in the above example would simply be a single [probably blurred] image. your eye cannot discern the difference, provided you have set your playback to 24p as well.

This was done to accommodate the limitations of the display formats, and there are no TV displays that I am aware of [which doesn't mean much compared to some of the dudes here] that is even capable of displaying a true progressively displayed 24p image versus a 48Hz PsF. This may be no longer true since I was involved in the research of it for my company some 2 years ago, so take FWIW.

So to answer your question, yes, your digitized image is indeed progressive, though it is merely displayed non-invasively, in terms of aesthetics, in interlace.

steve covello


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gary adcockRe: 1080p / 23.976 / 10bit
by on Sep 2, 2007 at 1:57:41 pm

[weevie833] "PsF simply takes a progressively recorded image and divides it into even and odd fields, but there is no progression of time in the recording between the two, thus the image in the above example would simply be a single [probably blurred] image. your eye cannot discern the difference, provided you have set your playback to 24p as well."

But not for all instances, with many displays the output by default is 48i or in the case of most LCD's or Plasmas that support it as 48p using a line doubling algorithm. For the most part only the BVM series monitors are displaying the materials as 24. My panny and astro displays show the format as Psf and indicate that it is playing at 48.


"his was done to accommodate the limitations of the display formats, and there are no TV displays that I am aware of .... that is even capable of displaying a true progressively displayed 24p image versus a 48Hz PsF."

sure there are now, the new Sony Luma series, Cinetal, E-Cinema, Astro, that Monster Pioneer prosumer set, most of the Panasonic LCD's and Pro Plasmas all can show 24p if true Progressive is sent to it. But the format was done that way for legacy.

There are only a few cameras that can capture TRUE P in 1080, and not one of them can record true progressive to a tape in camera - all need to recorded to external devices or
flash memory. Any format that is extracted from an interlaced master cannot be true progressive without special tools.






gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows


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