Capture aborts on timecode breaks on DVCPRO AJ-D455
by danrnw
on
Jun 28, 2005 at 12:32:04 am
I've been using this deck with Pipe Studio for months
and no problems whatsoever. Now, with the new setup,
FCP5, OS 10.4.1, Quicktime 7.0.1, Aurora drivers 4.1.1,
it aborts after 20 or 30 seconds and says it found a
time code break. There is no time code break.
It's also not aborting at the same place each time.
I've checked the settings and they are the same as
previous version. Using rs422, SDI in, DVCPRO codec
during the offline (roughcut) version.
Re: Capture aborts on timecode breaks on DVCPRO AJ-D455 by David Battistella on Jun 28, 2005 at 1:37:33 pm
I seem to remember this was a problems months ago, with a different OSX and FCP incarnation. You should report this to aurora. FCP was reporting dropped frames when it actually wasn't. you could proboably turn off dropped frame warnings and checka few clips to see if it is true. ALso, have you updated al drivers for hard drives. Tiger has been very flaky with hard drives.
Re: Capture aborts on timecode breaks on DVCPRO AJ-D455 by Danrnw on Jun 28, 2005 at 5:16:30 pm
It's not reporting or aborting on dropping of frames.
It says it's broken time code, which is not the case.
The tapes are fine. It aborts at different points everytime.
Tapes that were captured with the old setup (old aurora drivers,
FCP4.5, OS 10.3.7, Quicktime 6.5.2) don't work either in this
new setup, so it's not the tapes.
Something has changed with software/drivers, not
my deck or tapes. I have a useless configuration
at the moment. Needless to say, this needs a fix fast.
Re: Capture aborts on timecode breaks on DVCPRO AJ-D455 by Aurora Support on Jun 28, 2005 at 5:22:10 pm
Hi Dan,
Try going into "Audio / Video Setting", and on the Dev. Ctl. Presets tab, duplicate and edit the preset you've been using. Try switching to/from VITC/LTC. Also, verify that you have a good control cable.
Re: Capture aborts on timecode breaks on DVCPRO AJ-D455 by Danrnw on Jun 28, 2005 at 6:16:27 pm
I did both of those things yesterday.
As for the VITC or LTC, I tried it LTC,
then VITC, then LTC+VITC. Same results.
I'm assuming I don't have to restart the program or the OS
each time I reset the above settings.
Or is this not true?
Re: Capture aborts on timecode breaks on DVCPRO AJ-D455 by Danrnw on Jun 28, 2005 at 7:15:39 pm
I just booted into my other partition that has OS 10.3.7,
FCP4.5, old Aurora drivers. Tried the same clip again and
the capture was flawless.
So, my question is, what part of my setup determines
whether or not FCP sees and acts on a timecode issue?
Is this all FCP related?
Does the Pipe Studio card have something to do with timecode?
Does the Aurora drivers have something to do with timecode?
Additionally, I've been digitizing from DigiBeta with the new
setup (FCP5, new drivers) and there was no timecode issues.
But with the Panasonic DVCPRO AJ 455 deck, there is a big issue.
Re: Capture aborts on timecode breaks on DVCPRO AJ-D455 by David Battistella on Jun 28, 2005 at 9:36:59 pm
I am just going to throw this out there. If you are capturing from the Panansonic deck then you may be dealing with METADATA information. This "additional" information embedded in the clip is what could be causing the dropped frames.. FCP has all kinds of things built into it for specific codecs so I would consider trying to capture to a different codec (as a test) this could be narrowwed down to the DVCPRO50 codec and the additional information coming across through the panny deck. This might explain why things seem more "normal" with the D-beta or other decks.
Try the firewire port instead of RS-422 for macihne contol. Try SDI, TRY s-video. Does it stop at the same point in the tape each time?
Re: Capture aborts on timecode breaks on DVCPRO AJ-D455 by Danrnw on Jun 28, 2005 at 9:45:23 pm
Thanks David.
I'll try some of your ideas right now.
I've been really worried because this DOES need to work.
I can't tell management the upgrade time and expense
was a mistake because all the parts don't work together now.
Re: Capture aborts on timecode breaks on DVCPRO AJ-D455 by Danrnw on Jun 29, 2005 at 12:55:46 am
David and Aurora,
I tried all the different codecs. None would allow capture without
"broken timecode" abort. The abort is never at the same place.
I'm capturing from SDI, just like I did on the old setup.
As far as capturing from firewire...
I don't see an input option within the Aurora codecs.
It's just composite, component, s video, and SDI.
I don't want to do that anyway. It won't solve the problem of
Aurora/FCP working with the Panasonic DVCPRO AJ455 deck.
It might cause me other problems with sync and timecode
when I uprez or capture a different way later.
I'll have to disconnect the deck from the rack and patchbay
and other AVID edit rooms use the deck too. This will not
look good down the road as far as future purchases go,
if you know what I mean. This place loves their AVIDs
as it is. This is just another reason to not stick with FCP.
This is very frustrating, and the reason by the way,
many people won't go with an FCP setup.
I've lost two days of work when I could have been
digitizing and getting ready for the edit sessions.
I'm probably going to have to stay overnight and dub
all the DVCPRO tapes to DigiBeta so I can get this project done.
And we're not talking about a deck that's new or not in use.
There are thousands of these AJ455s out there.
Or maybe it's not FCP/Aurora.
Maybe it's Tiger/Quicktime 7.
Who the heck knows.
That's the trouble.
Finally, I'd just stay in the old partition with the old setup
if it wasn't for the fact this new project is multicam
and I need that part of FCP5. I sold management
on the upgrade because of this ability.
We already can do Multicam on the AVIDs and now
they are scheduled for other projects.
Re: Capture aborts on timecode breaks on DVCPRO AJ-D455 by John Pale on Jun 29, 2005 at 1:24:06 am
If you are 100% certain there are no time code breaks, then maybe you should change your preferences to warn after capture instead of aborting on timecode breaks.
Re: Capture aborts on timecode breaks on DVCPRO AJ-D455 by Danrnw on Jun 29, 2005 at 2:08:44 am
There is no option for that, unless I don't know about a
setting somewhere. The one in the user prefs-general
is for dropped frames. I don't think FCP ever has allowed
capture over timecode breaks. Here again, if you know
the above option also will let you capture over
timecode breaks, let me know. I'll try it tomorrow.
And yes, the tapes are fine. They captured perfectly
under 10.3.7/FCP4.5/old Aurora drivers/Quicktime 6.5.2.
And EVERY DVCPRO or DV or DVCAM tape in the house
that I've tried does the same thing with this new setup.
Previously they all were captured just fine via the same
deck, the same way.
On the other hand, the DigiBeta 500A deck works great
with the new setup...thank goodness.
Re: Capture aborts on timecode breaks on DVCPRO AJ-D455 by David Battistella on Jun 29, 2005 at 4:50:25 am
Dan,
What kind of drive setup are you running. I just recently had a problem with a huge drive after an upgrade to Tiger. I have heard that Tiger is causing problems with external hard drives.
Is there a way to move the media and reforma the drive in tiger. Can you run an AJA speed test on the drive, just to be sure it's performing.
Have you tried a capture to a different drive?
My huge drive started to act flaky after the tiger upgrade. You might need a firmware update or someting to either your atto card or your drive set-up.
This does not explain why it works well in Digi beta.
Are you using the same cable or do you have a serial digital router set up?
How long is your serial cable? ( I use 100 feet with no problems.)
Have you created a capture and device preset from scratch?
Keep trying to work it from the inside out. I know that Apple some people have been having problems with bathc capture in that it was converting captured clips into sub clips.
On selling FCP's multicam. I am not so sure it is well proven.
You could try this with 4.5 as a workaround for now.
maybe you can get an evaluation copy or ask them if they are dropping their price now tha t5.0 is around
David
I do not want to sound like an old lady, but try not to sell features you have not usedand tested. The hype on this release was huge for not much of a package.
Re: Capture aborts on timecode breaks on DVCPRO AJ-D455 by Danrnw on Jun 29, 2005 at 6:15:13 am
Look at the top of page 3 Dave.
It's right there.
Panasonic AJ455p.
As far as your other suggestions,
I'll look into them tomorrow at the office.
The thing is, SD uncompressed puts alot of pressure on
the drives, while DV does not. SD/FCP5/Aurora drivers/DigiBeta
all work great. It's the Panasonic deck that doesn't, DV or SD
or any other codec you pick.
It's hard to connect the dots that the disk drives
are the trouble. But I won't rule out anything.
The other thing is, it's hard for me to believe that with
Apple's very close relationship with Panasonic,
they would not go through the testing of the Panasonic decks
with FCP5 before releasing it. And it's always worked great
in the previous versions.
So my question still is,
what happens from deck to quicktime captured file,
that has to do with FCP, the capture card, Quicktime,
the OS and the timecode stream?. Who has control of that
timecode data and who decides if it's correct or not?
I haven't heard from the Aurora guys on that yet.
Does their card and drivers effect what FCP does
with that data? If so, we need to investigate that connection.
If it's not an Aurora issue, then I would assume people using
the AJA cards would also have the trouble, as would
Blackmagic people and also people with no card at all.
And maybe it's just my setup only. Maybe my Tiger
install is bad. But why does other stuff work ok?
These are the directions I'm going to look at next.
Re: Capture aborts on timecode breaks on DVCPRO AJ-D455 by David Battistella on Jun 29, 2005 at 11:47:50 am
Dan,
I hope i didn't sound pesky. I just want to help open it up to any possiblity. I still think it has to do with the way FCP is putting a quicktime wraper on the captured file shen it is coming from a Panny tape. They have built all kinds of things into the DV/DVCpro50 codecs that look at other data recorded in that digital format. (DV start/stop dect works on this principle and the varicam needs to have frames flagged for specific reasons.
Maybe ask panasonic and ask around in teh Apple discussions as well.
Re: Yes there is an option for that.... by Danrnw on Jun 29, 2005 at 6:14:15 pm
John,
When I came in this morning that's the first thing I checked and
sure enough you were right last night. I didn't think that choice
was there. I'll definately try that setting today.
Re: Yes there is an option for that.... by Chris Vargas on Jun 30, 2005 at 2:14:55 pm
Like you, I am also having problems with timecode break errors. Unlike you, I'm having them with our DigiBeta record deck. Like you, same setup worked great under 10.3.x/FCP 4.5/previous Aurora drivers: like you, still not clear which component is to blame.
I changed the default behavior for timecode break as John suggested and it has helped but not completely eliminated the problem. I'm hoping some future upgrade of QuickTime/Tiger/FCP/Aurora drivers helps.
Re: Yes there is an option for that.... by Danrnw on Jul 1, 2005 at 1:59:19 pm
Chris,
Oh Crap.
Not good news.
However, I've been batching for the last two days from DigiBeta
in the new setup with only once and a while getting an error
message at the end of a batch, otherwise it's been fine.
These are 90 minute camera reels from a studio 4 camera shoot
so I log camera 2 first, then do the export/import batch thing
and change the reel and camera number for the other reels.
Its all been going very well actually.
I have not done any more testing or captures from the
DVCPRO AJ455 deck for a couple of days so I can't confirm
if the idea to tell FCP not to stop or warn me of timecode
breaks with that deck will help or not.
Re: Yes there is an option for that.... by Danrnw on Jul 6, 2005 at 5:54:47 am
I've been using in/out points, logging the clips, then batching.
I've also tried capture now. Same problem.
I've also logged the clip and did log and capture for the single clip.
Trouble still there.
Tomorrow I'll try capturing with FCP set to only tell me AFTER
the clip is captured that there was a timecode break.
Hopefully this will work. But it really is a terrible way to
capture your footage. It opens up all kinds of possible errors
down the road.
Re: Yes there is an option for that.... by David Battistella on Jul 6, 2005 at 1:44:13 pm
Dan,
can you do this test.
Record color bars with burned in TC for one minute. Capture the color bars. Go through the captured footage and see if there are actually any frames missing. There was a problem in the past where FCP was eroneously reporting dropped frames. (this is entirely possible) if you find that no frames are missing from your capture then you can turn off the warning.
I actually think this happens most often when you are capturing over camera stops. I do not think that FCP is captruing a continuos flow of timecode through the RS-422 port. It captures the first frame and then begins a record run mode, if this TC "breaks" like on a shot change is notice and then it tells you that frames were dropped. when it should be telling you that there are incomsistances.
Also test this. capture now on the part of the tape where the clip was dropping. if it reports a dropped frames after going throuhg camera stops go and compare some frames to the tape, compared to the capture and actually see if the TC's are on.
Re: Yes there is an option for that.... by Danrnw on Jul 6, 2005 at 2:07:54 pm
I haven't gotten in to the office yet, but I'll tell you now that
the TC breaks were not over camera stops. It was happening
in the middle of scenes. Capturing over camera stops,
even when you set the camera for "record run" is tricky
depending on the camera. Some make good timecode through the
stop/restart and some do not. I don't worry about that in this situation.
And that's not what I'm talking about.
I'll try your tests, but I've already gone over frame by frame
of the area where FCP will stop capturing and tell me there
was a timecode break and in reality there was not any.
It never happens at the same place either.
Re: Yes there is an option for that.... by Danrnw on Jul 6, 2005 at 5:34:37 pm
Here's my experience today:
I'm having successful captures by turning off the "abort capture
on dropped frames" and by selecting
"on timecode break, warn after capture".....
and that's what it's doing. It's saying "lost communication"
and "broken timecode during capture".
However the clip it was capturing, that it warned about,
is fine and all the timecode is apparently fine.
I really don't like this way of operating.
It feels very un-pro-like. Very consumer-ish.
This is supposed to be a pro app.
It's a pro deck. A couple of grand for a capture card.
Not AVID prices but if these components can't work together
without spending the AVID-type money, then maybe
someone should be honest and say so.
This is getting more and more frustrating to deal with.
I need to be creating stuff, not testing editing systems for
manufacturers.
