Re: Igniter driver for Tiger? by David Battistella on May 19, 2005 at 3:19:13 pm
I know that we will be seeing a new Igniter driver in the coming days.
I personally had a not great experience installing the new driver under 10.3.9, FCP 4.5. I am certain it is bcause I did not upgrade to QT 7.0 on the machiine. I am note sure if the 3.5 release is actually set to work with older versions of QT (6.5.2).
The problem I had was that the picture was not playing back on the external monitor. I was mid project so I quickly uninstalled and reverted to the Pipe 3.0.2 driver.
Re: Igniter driver for Tiger? by John Lussow on May 23, 2005 at 4:38:15 pm
I just sent an email to Aurora Support since I have heard, through a few pretty reputable sources, that the IgniterX family support is being discontinued. I sure hope not but looking at the way things are I would not be surprised. No drivers since October for us while the Pipe and now the FuseX are already updated for Tiger. It's been weeks since the other drivers were updated and absolutly nothing about the IgniterX. I asked if the will offer a trade down from my Igniter Pro to a PipePro.
Re: Igniter driver for Tiger? by lolo on May 24, 2005 at 7:11:28 am
what?
Aurora support said previously that Tiger IgniterX drivers are ready in couple of weeks, you mean after Tiger/FCP5 support?
you are scaring me :(
Re: Igniter driver for Tiger? by jwlussow on May 24, 2005 at 4:44:52 pm
I heard some rumours at a couple of trade shows and the fact that their other drivers are abundant and up to date and the IgniterX hasn't had any updates since last October, it is hard to refute these rumours. It seems that there is a shift away from the IgniterX family. I sure hope the rumours aren't true but I am not very confident right now. Hey Aurora, please prove the rumours are not correct.
Re: Igniter driver for Tiger? by David Battistella on May 24, 2005 at 7:59:41 pm
Hey Guys,
I may have been the one who posted that I thought that the support for Igniter/Tiger was coming in a couple of weeks. I was completely assuming that (based on what aurora supoprt has been like in the past.
I know that Aurora is still selling the 8-bit Igniter Products but the technology is four years old which is an eternity for these types of products. There is the 10 bit Pipe and HD around the corner (we hope) and eventually the Igniter line will fade away, which makes sense because it is 8 bit and built on older cards. We all held our breath when OSX arrived because we were not sure that the Igniter would work in OSX and in the end Aurora was able to engineer a driver for OSX. Other manufacturers never made cards for OS9 and had no existing customer base to satisfy and they chose to satisfy existing customers and begin developing the Pipe as their 10 bit solution.
The Igniter card has has gone from OS9 migrated to OSX (when most people thought it could not be ported to OSX) I had my igniter for about six months at that time. We went through several growing pains into OSX.
My Igniter is still in a machine running OSX.9 but it might just stop right there. If Aurora was to not do another release of the driver, or choose to put their resources toward the HD products on Fuse instead of Igniter, I would not blame them because I got a lot out of that Igniter card. I think I paid 4k for that card. I have had it for four years.
I hope I get that much out of the Pipe Studio, it's almost the cost of doing business with FCP. This isn't even to say that I can not still use the card on a BU machine running OSX.9
As an Aurora Igniter user and a satisfied customer, I would love to see them focus their attention on an HD product and offer me a competive upgrade from the Igniter to the Pipe or the HD (that is around the corner, I hope!!!!!!).
Re: Igniter driver for Tiger? by Ken Zukin on May 24, 2005 at 8:10:48 pm
What's the concern, guys? Aurora has told us that an Igniter driver will be released for Tiger.
That buys another year or so. It's probably unlikely that the Igniter system can be rigged to eventually handle High Def - that's fine. Like David, I've owned my Igniter for 4 -5 years. It's paid for itself many times over. I'm just grateful a new driver is coming down the pike.
Ken
by the way - has anyone played around with FCP 5 yet?
Re: Igniter driver for Tiger? by Michael Alberts on May 24, 2005 at 8:40:11 pm
Not to beat a dead horse...but,
The Igniter card came out in 1999. They were the first card for FCP that offered uncompressed 601 video for both NTSC and PAL. This was two and a half years before AJA came out with their first Kona card. This was three and a half years before Decklink came out with their first card.
That original Igniter card was based on the cutting edge technology at the time. I think the Blue and White G3 was the computer of choice at that moment in time. Let's get some perspective here. The PCI technology of computers at that time was about 1/10 the speed it is now. As we demand more and more data to be pumped through the the data chain (drives to computer) the PCI bandwidth becomes a potential bottleneck for older technology like the Igniter. With the introduction of the G5 and PCI-X, the Igniter cards had to make a shift in their fundamental design to maintain compatibility with this new technology. With the advent of PCI Express I seriously doubt the Igniter will see any future upgrades. There's only so much one can squeeze out of outdated technology.
I think it's commendable that Aurora has been able to maintain the Igniter family for this long. We have several Igniter cards at our facility which we find ourselves using less and less. We need the optimal PCI-X speed that only the Pipe cards can offer. I wish we had true 24 frame capability in the Pipe cards, but that would add to the cost of the Pipe cards for a feature that maybe 5% of the users require. Besides, Apple offers this feature in Cinema Tools, be it a slower workflow.
I don't want to go into my Avid upgrade experience when moving up from NUBUS, to PCI AVBV to Meredian and now total obsolescence. Let's just say those "upgrades" alone totaled $50,000 per system. But the return on my investment was worth it. The same holds true for my upgrades to FCP, the computers and the video hardware. It all pays for itself on the first several jobs. The day will come when Aurora no longer offers updates to the Igniter. They've already stated that they will be updating the driver for OS 10.4 Tiger. This should get you another year or so of usability. But don't be surprised if/when they stop releasing updates for the Igniter. Aurora offers a 25% trade-in discount for people moving to a Pipe card. I've gotten several people moved over to Pipe with this discounted upgrade. They are all happy for the ability to stay with Aurora products and save a bit on the upgrade. Besides, this stuff is so cheap now a days you can't go wrong.
That's my 2 cents. I'm getting off my soapbox now.
Re: Igniter driver for Tiger? by Michael Alberts on May 24, 2005 at 8:43:35 pm
[Alex Salerno]"But doesn't any one want hardware-based real-time video compression any more???"
Yes, but no one wants to pay for it. That would drive up the price of the card significantly. Besides, FCP will do RT compression to DV, PhotoJPEG, DVCPro50, DVCPro HD, etc. The writing has been on the wall for a long time. MJPEG will never be supported as an RT codec in FCP so why support it. That's an Apple decision, not Aurora.
Re: Igniter driver for Tiger? by John Kaley on May 25, 2005 at 2:10:12 am
I've had my 5 volt Igniter since 2001 and am still using it everyday. I just finished a 5 multicam edit that was started in February and FCP 4.5 with Igniter did not crash once!
Anway, I am soon moving up to a G5 and Aurora has said that I can upgrade my 5V Igniter to a Pipe Studio for $1311.00 Apparently it's possible to purchase a "No B.O.B Pipe Studio" and simply use my existing Igniter B.O.B! Amazing! I was not aware that an old Igniter B.O.B will work with a Pipe card but according to Aurora, it will.
Re: Igniter driver for Tiger? by lolo on May 25, 2005 at 6:52:21 am
Its sound good for the Bob, but it will be really worry to have no support for FCP5 (maybe remove the MJPEG support on the card?)
I moved from Truevision Targa 1000 (OS9) to IgniterX for his MJPEG capabilities and codec qualitie and OSX support this year and now I hear the support will be maybe broken, I have no luck :((
Re: Igniter driver for Tiger? by Michael Alberts on May 25, 2005 at 2:53:44 pm
lolo,
There is no reason to worry about support for your Igiter. Aurora has said they will be coming out with a FCP 5/Tiger driver for the Igniter in the next few weeks. They haven't said anything about dropping support for the card. In fact, even if they stopped writing drivers for the card the card will work in the most recent configuraion (G5, FCP 5, Tiger 10.4) for years to come (if you maintain that particular system in it's current state). I see no problem here.
We've got Igniters running on G5's (OS 10.3.9, FCP 4.5) and have no issues. We could keep those machines running in that state for years and be productive, billing systems. The equipment is so cheap these days I have a hard time understanding how anyone could complain! Just purchase a new, more modern card like the Pipe and stay current for years to come. The Pipe Pro is only $800 USD. The Pipe Studio is only $1900 USD. CHEAP!!!!
Re: Igniter driver for Tiger? by John Lussow on May 26, 2005 at 11:48:08 am
I just got a response from Aurora. After I've invested more than $7000 on their gear I get this response. They really used to be good. Now it seems that they don't need my support. My customer number is in the 50's. I've been with them just about since the beginning. I am concerned because A/V is my (very expensive) hobby. I am using a Pro Tools HD and an 002R system and the Igniter Studio. Since I am a beta tester I asked about Igniter support. After an intial friendly answer from support, I offered to help them beta test on Pro Tools since I have many connections at Digidesign. I don't feel I have been mean, I was told at a conference by a representative of Swiderski Electronics that Aurora would discontinue support. I was only looking for clarification. Now Aurora sends me this answer...
"We've had received dozens of support inquiries because of your inane posting on the CreativeCow site, all inquiring as to why we're supposedly "dropping" the Igniter. So, NO THANKS. We don't need any more of your "Help"."
Sorry if your customer has questions. I should simply buy anything you sell and happily accept it if it works or not.
Re: Igniter driver for Tiger? by David Battistella on May 26, 2005 at 12:24:13 pm
John,
It seems that all of the engines are running a little hotter than normal. Let's everybody just take a few days and come back at this next week. I am sure that you guys can work it out and you can continue to be a good resource for one and other.
I know that there are many concerns about the products we own whenever the Gorrilla (in this case Apple) is going to overhaul it's product line and release new stuff after a year of anticipation.
I worry about this stuff too but I always end up telling myself this:
"I know that there are AVID's running on 9500's cutting major feature films to this day. Your investment is not dead if support is discontinued. You may be limited to your upgrade path, but that is the choice that the consumer makes. I am even sort of wishing I had stuck with 10.3.6 and the Piep Drivers because the machine was unning so smooth. I upgraded and I have to deal with my choices."
You are a longtime customer with at large investment. If your car was six years old and started showing rust, would you force GM to repaint it?
Was this the whole response you posted in this e-mail, or just the part that bothered you the most?
Either way. I don't liek seeing people mad at each other, step back, breathe and look at it in a week. Mayb the new drivers will be out by then.
Re: Igniter driver for Tiger? by John Lussow on May 26, 2005 at 12:38:55 pm
I love my Igniter. I have never minded having to upgrade from the Fuse to the Igniter to the "new" IgniterX to the IgniterX Studio. I just wanted to know how quickly I need to warn my wife that I need more "stuff". I felt that they were taking offense to my honest questions so I offered to help with Pro Tools certification. The response I posted was the entire response from Aurora. I'm sure I will end up switching to a PipePro but I have lost some respect for Aurora's support.
Re: Igniter driver for Tiger? by Aurora Support on May 26, 2005 at 2:52:54 pm
John,
We did take offense to your posting of rumors in this public forum especially after I posted that we ARE releasing new IgniterX drivers next week. On Saturday evening, May 21st I personally logged in here http://www.creativecow.net/forum/read_post.php?postid=111661599222195&forum... to answer Dave Fisher and to let the rest of our users know that we ARE supporting the Igniter family in Tiger, just as we did for OS 8.6, 9.0, 9.1, 9.2, 10.1, 10.2, and 10.3
Despite several assurances in response to your emails to our support department, you decided to ignore my statement, and spread rumors from "a few pretty reputable sources" and then further fan the flames with "other drivers are abundant and up to date..."
Is the data from your "sources" more accurate than my statement? Have any of these so-called sources contacted us directly? If they had, they would receive the same reply we sent you, and that we posted here. Further, we don't release drivers for kicks. We release to add features, or to fix bugs. If there's not a new feature or bug fix, then the driver stays "as is."
Our support inbox has been overflowing with questions about your posting, and the "true future of IgniterX", and answering them is diverting precious resources that normally would be focussed on development.
We ARE supporting Tiger with IgniterX drivers, as a service to our loyal customers. We have no obligation to do so, and someday there will be new OS or new hardware technology that we won't be able to support. When that day comes, further development for IgniterX will cease, but we will still support the product. As a matter of fact, to this day, we support Fuse users who are still running their original 1997 Fuse cards in OS 9.2.2. Can you name another company in this market with this level of support? Even so, people occassionally write in to complain that we never did an OS X driver for Fuse, or to ask why they can't plug it into their G5. We even had a guy tell us that the lack of an audio connection on Fuse was a major flaw. You can't please everyone...
