Hello.
We just shot and edited a video clip in HD.
We captured as 10-bit uncompressed 1080i50 (PAL land), edited and color graded with n o problems. It looked great... until we tried down converting to SD.
The clip became soft, the edges jagged. The more colorful parts of the clip started looking like a pastel painting (which is cool, but not at all what we wanted).
We tried downconverting in two ways:
1- Putting rendering and exporting the HD clip then putting it in a
10-bit SD timeline and rendering.
2- Using the "downconvert" feature on a Blackmagic multibridge extreme.
We had the same results with both (the downconvert on the Blackmagic made the text elements look extra bad though).
Re: HD to SD degraded by walter biscardi on Jul 28, 2008 at 1:29:23 pm
[eyad Hamam]"1- Putting rendering and exporting the HD clip then putting it in a
10-bit SD timeline and rendering.
"
FCP does a terrible job of this and this method should be avoided.
[eyad Hamam]"2- Using the "downconvert" feature on a Blackmagic multibridge extreme. "
Don't know about that, but I can tell you the AJA Konas do a spectacular job of downconversion in realtime. If the graphics have a lot of thin lines, you may have to re-create them just for the SD version, but for video elements, the conversion is completely pristine. So far we have not even had to recreate our graphics for SD because we make them appropriately for both HD and SD in one pass.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.
Re: HD to SD degraded by todd reid on Jul 28, 2008 at 3:34:04 pm
Hey Walter,
I have a follow up to your answer.
I have to use method #1, since my delivery is a data file (AVID DNxHD codec for the HD versions and uncompressed 10 bit for SD version to use on different network).
I have an AJA HD, so I know realtime downconversion is possible when outputting to tape, but what is the best method when you are only delivering files?
My client is happy with what I deliver in their HD world, but on the few occasions where they want to cross promote (on AFN - Armed Forces Network), I want to deliver the best possible.
Re: HD to SD degraded by walter biscardi on Jul 28, 2008 at 3:41:03 pm
[todd reid]" I have to use method #1, since my delivery is a data file (AVID DNxHD codec for the HD versions and uncompressed 10 bit for SD version to use on different network). "
That could be the source of your problems right there. The Avid codec does not work well, if at all, with FCP.
We never deliver data files so I can't tell you what to do there. I would probably lay it off to DigiBeta tape via the Kona and then capture it back in to the correct Codec during capture. That would be very clean and we've done that here in HD for 720 projects that need to be turned into a BluRay disc. Just lay it off in 720p and recapture in 1080i via the Kona 3. Incredibly clean process.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.
Re: HD to SD degraded by todd reid on Jul 28, 2008 at 4:25:33 pm
Thanks for the input.
Just to clarify...
I only use the DNx codec for final export. It is what they require.
I will still search for a cleaner solution since I don't have access to a digbeta.
I do know of a betasp UVW 1800 I can get for a reasonable price.
Do you think I could do the down convert to it and have better quality than above #1.
I would have to down convert output, then digitize to some flavor of SD.
Its not a deal breaker for me, since they have never said anything, but I want to keep exceeding my client's expectations.
Re: HD to SD degraded by eyad Hamam on Jul 28, 2008 at 9:06:42 pm
Hi Walter,
Thanx for the reply.
Do you know of any way to produce clean SD files from HD without down converting via the card (eg. export the full HD file then convert using compressor, or through after effects etc...?) And what format should I be exporting to (10-bit SD or ProRes HQ)?
Walter mentioned that the Kona cards do the down conversion cleanly. Does anyone have an idea about the BlackMagic cards?
Re: HD to SD degraded by walter biscardi on Jul 28, 2008 at 9:11:20 pm
[eyad Hamam]"Do you know of any way to produce clean SD files from HD without down converting via the card (eg. export the full HD file then convert using compressor, or through after effects etc...?) And what format should I be exporting to (10-bit SD or ProRes HQ)? "
Shane Ross always recommends Compressor for this. You can do a search on his name and find out what he uses for his settings.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.
Re: HD to SD degraded by eyad Hamam on Jul 29, 2008 at 5:33:38 am
Thanx Rafael.
I'll check. Even though I already set everything to best, but other people use the machine and may have updated the softare recently (resetting the prefs).
Re: HD to SD degraded by todd reid on Jul 29, 2008 at 12:26:12 pm
I didn't mean to try to highjack your post, but I thought my issue was so similar, I'd ask.
Funny thing is that Walter's answer to you, worked for me.
I'm not sure if I wasn't clear, but I think we were asking almost the same thing.
His answer to me was that he didn't deliver data files, so he wasn't sure.
The answer to your question sent you (and me) to search for Shane and compressor.
I did this, and after a bit of trial and error, I got a much cleaner SD version of my HD project.
This turned out much better than exporting quicktime and importing into an SD sequence, although I had to go in and reposition a few graphics (before going to compressor), but I'm very happy with the higher quality. I can even read the small disclaimer text!
