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Print to Video Question: Not 16x9 on my external monitor?

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Print to Video Question: Not 16x9 on my external monitor?
by zack hill (zeech26) on May 26, 2008 at 4:39:20 pm

Hello!
Situation:
Film Festival needs film on "MINI DV TAPE"
Director is embarrassed to tell the festival that we are just now finishing the video, so he won't call to get more specific. We shot on panasonic hvx 200 with P2 and sony V1U with tape.
Mixed the footage on a timeline specific to the Panasonic, 720 24p.
Now for my question: I exported the sequence and brought it into a SD sequence, 720 by 480 NTSC DV with the ANAMORPHIC 16;9 tab clicked on. Rendered it, looks fine on my computer monitor, but when I print to video, it comes up squeezed into a 4 by 3 format. I printed to video, and re-ingested the footage and when I drag the clip into the timeline, it looks fine, 16 by 9, no squeeze. So why does it look that way on my external monitor? When I preview my HDV footage on my monitor it shows letterboxed.
I am using a Sony M15 HDV deck by the way. Do i have the wrong settings in FCP?

Thanks!!!
Zack Hill
www.zeechproductions.com
G5 4 gigs FCP 6.0.3 Sony HVR V1U



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Re: Print to Video Question: Not 16x9 on my external monitor?
by David Roth Weiss on May 26, 2008 at 5:12:17 pm

[zack hill] "when I print to video, it comes up squeezed into a 4 by 3 format."

I'm trying to help, but your post is pretty difficult to follow... What does "comes up" mean? Comes up where? That's not really a video term.

(Now that I've reread your original post and see your subject header again I get your post a bit better and realize I did answer correctly below.) A better way to state what you siad would have been, "after printing to tape, the tape displays 4x3 squeezed on my TV or monitor when monitored directly from my VCR.")

Anamorphic video when recorded to tape is in fact squeeezed to 4x3 and everything is tall and skinny until it is unsqueeezed. So, if you're monitoring on a 4x3 SD TV right off the tape and your monitor has no switch for 16x9, what d'ya think its gonna look like??? 4x3 squeeezed.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.


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Re: Print to Video Question: Not 16x9 on my external monitor?
by zack hill on May 26, 2008 at 9:54:14 pm

Sir David, sorry for my cryptic post. my 7th month old was on my lap, and this is due this afternoon.
So, to help achieve an answer to my problem, when I submit this tape to the festival, whom I assume with take this copy and put it on a master tape, will it unsqueeze? Or do I have to change my settings to get it to print in 16:9 format?
Thanks,
zack hill



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Re: Print to Video Question: Not 16x9 on my external monitor?
by Katrina Mann on Jun 13, 2008 at 2:09:36 am

Yes, it's different - I'll be referring to the Printing to Video portion of this post next month. Thank you for your help on this part, I really appreciate it.

Katrina



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Re: Print to Video Question: Not 16x9 on my external monitor?
by Dylan Reeve on May 26, 2008 at 8:04:13 pm

That's what 16:9FHA (Full Height Anamorphic) footage looks like on a 4:3 display - tall and skinny. On a 16:9 device (projector, widescreen TV, etc) it will look nice and wide. Some DV decks and cameras will actually convert the playback to suit a 4:3 display by letterboxing it, but that's not common, and would be a menu option somewhere.

Don't worry, you've done it right. Be sure to clearly label the tape as being 16:9 Anamorphic to make sure it's handled properly.



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Re: Print to Video Question: Not 16x9 on my external monitor?
by zack hill on May 26, 2008 at 9:55:50 pm

Hey, thanks for your Post, that is what I wanted to hear! Sorry if the message was cryptic, and I should have read your post before I responded to Sir David's post.
Thanks!
zack hill



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Re: Print to Video Question: Not 16x9 on my external monitor?
by David Roth Weiss on May 26, 2008 at 10:22:54 pm

[Dylan Reeve] "Be sure to clearly label the tape as being 16:9 Anamorphic to make sure it's handled properly."

Dylan is absolutely right on this one, which I thought about a while later. Consider going a step farther and calling to make certain the head programmer puts a big red note to the projectionist reminding them that your project is anamorphic, because Murphy's law of bad projection states, "whatever can be projected improperly, will be projected improperly."

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY

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Re: Print to Video Question: Not 16x9 on my external monitor?
by zack hill on May 26, 2008 at 10:31:42 pm

Thanks so much for your help guys!
I appreciate it.
Zack Hill





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Re: Print to Video Question: Not 16x9 on my external monitor?
by Robert Ober on May 26, 2008 at 11:48:14 pm

[Dylan Reeve] "On a 16:9 device (projector, widescreen TV, etc) it will look nice and wide."

Really? Wouldn't that be assuming a playback device that understands anamorphic like DVD players do? What he probably will get on playback is 4:3 squeezed inside of a 16:9 frame, right? Do most DV decks understand anamorphic? Maybe later I will try my DSR-11 as a test.

Robert:-)

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Re: Print to Video Question: Not 16x9 on my external monitor?
by Dylan Reeve on May 27, 2008 at 3:00:16 am

Most 16:9 devices will just put whatever pixels they see on the screen, so an anamorphic image will look right, but a 4:3 image will look short and fat.

DVD players step in the middle of this process by reading the format flag on the DVD and looking at the TV aspect setting you've provided, and doing whatever is necessary to make the format look right (so a 16:9 DVD on a 4:3 TV will be letterboxed for output by the DVD player).



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Re: Print to Video Question: Not 16x9 on my external monitor?
by Katrina Mann on Jun 12, 2008 at 11:13:08 pm

Hello,

I've been eavesdropping on this conversation as I try to make sure my DVDs play properly for my director.

(so a 16:9 DVD on a 4:3 TV will be letterboxed for output by the DVD player).

Does that mean 16:9 anamorphic? I want to export a sequence for DVD Studio Pro to create a DVD that will play right on whatever TV/DVD player combination my director might come across.


Is my best bet to export 16:9 from an anamorphic sequenece? (Our footage is 16:9 HD.) I'm still learning DVD Studio Pro and haven't seen this very clearly explained yet.

Thanks for any help





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Re: Print to Video Question: Not 16x9 on my external monitor?
by Katrina Mann on Jun 12, 2008 at 11:13:09 pm

Hello,

I've been eavesdropping on this conversation as I try to make sure my DVDs play properly for my director.

(so a 16:9 DVD on a 4:3 TV will be letterboxed for output by the DVD player).

Does that mean 16:9 anamorphic? I want to export a sequence for DVD Studio Pro to create a DVD that will play right on whatever TV/DVD player combination my director might come across.


Is my best bet to export 16:9 from an anamorphic sequenece? (Our footage is 16:9 HD.) I'm still learning DVD Studio Pro and haven't seen this very clearly explained yet.

Thanks for any help





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Re: Print to Video Question: Not 16 by 9 on my external montor?
by zack hill on Jun 12, 2008 at 11:39:52 pm

A little bit different than what I was talking about, but here is my two cents.
Are you using DVDSP to burn your DVD? If so, this is what I do:
Out of your FCP timeline, say I am editing an HDV 1080i sequence, I use compressor to compress for SD DVD, 90 minutes best quality. then, when I bring it in to DVD SP, I make a new track and add the M2V file from Compressor to the track. Then in the attributes of the track, you can set it to play either 4:3, 16:9. pan scan, 16 by 9 letterbox, or 16:9 pan scan and letter box. I tend to use 16 by 9 letter box, so that if its on a standard tv, it will letterbox, and if its on a wide screen, it stretches to fit.

Hope that helps!
zack

"Hello,

I've been eavesdropping on this conversation as I try to make sure my DVDs play properly for my director.

(so a 16:9 DVD on a 4:3 TV will be letterboxed for output by the DVD player).

Does that mean 16:9 anamorphic? I want to export a sequence for DVD Studio Pro to create a DVD that will play right on whatever TV/DVD player combination my director might come across.


Is my best bet to export 16:9 from an anamorphic sequenece? (Our footage is 16:9 HD.) I'm still learning DVD Studio Pro and haven't seen this very clearly explained yet.

Thanks for any help"



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Re: Print to Video Question: Not 16 by 9 on my external montor?
by David Roth Weiss on Jun 13, 2008 at 2:12:57 am

[zack hill] "Then in the attributes of the track, you can set it to play either 4:3, 16:9. pan scan, 16 by 9 letterbox, or 16:9 pan scan and letter box. I tend to use 16 by 9 letter box, so that if its on a standard tv, it will letterbox, and if its on a wide screen, it stretches to fit."

Zack,

For the record, you should change your method to the method I described, for good reason. The proper way the DVD spec works is to "set the 16x9 flag" when encoding MPEG2 (in Compressor in this case), then DVDSP or any other authoring software will automatically create a widescreen DVD that displays properly on widescreen or 4x3 TVs.

Using the method you describe, if a person should accidently encode a letterboxed MPEG2 in Compressor, and then they set DVDSP to create a 16x9 DVD, they will get a distorted stretched image on a widescreen TV.

Your method may work sometimes, but not all he time. The method I described works all the time.

Hope this helps...

David

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.


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Re: Print to Video Question: Not 16 by 9 on my external montor?
by Katrina Mann on Jun 27, 2008 at 12:49:20 am

Hi David,

By "Set the 16x9 flag" in Compressor do you mean just choose that in Geometry? You warn against accidentally encoding a letterboxed MPEG 2.
I don't want to do this, but don't know how.. I don't see letterbox option.

If I just export a 16x9 MPEG, then in DVD SP do I choose 16x9 letterbox or just 16x9? (To get it right on all TVs)

Finally, can I just go from fcp to Compressor MPEG without exporting a QT at current settings?

I'm very nervous about getting this right tonight.

Thank you,
Katrina



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Re: Print to Video Question: Not 16 by 9 on my external montor?
by David Roth Weiss on Jun 27, 2008 at 2:19:50 am

[Katrina Mann] "By "Set the 16x9 flag" in Compressor do you mean just choose that in Geometry?"

Nope, if you've output a 16x9 QT from FCP, the proper setting in Compressor is "16x9" in the Aspect Ratio field in the Encoder tab of the Inspector.

When properly set, that places a flag that signals authoring programs to automatically scale your DVD so that it displays 16x9 on widescreen monitors and letterboxed on 4x3 monitors.

Pretty simple huh?

Good luck tonight...

David

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.


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Re: Print to Video Question: Not 16x9 on my external monitor?
by David Roth Weiss on Jun 13, 2008 at 12:58:04 am

[Katrina Mann] "Is my best bet to export 16:9 from an anamorphic sequenece? (Our footage is 16:9 HD.) I'm still learning DVD Studio Pro and haven't seen this very clearly explained yet."

Always export using Quicktime Export -- current settings, which simply creates a file that exactly matches what is on timeline in the same resolution and format. In your case 16:9 HD anamorphic.

Import that file into Compressor, select the Best DVD preset that suits the length of your video, and check to make sure the Aspect Ratio is set to 16:9 under the Encoder tab in the Inspector. It will encode an MPEG2 properly so that you can create a DVD that will display 16x9 on a widescreen monitor and letterboxed on a 4x3 monitor.

Got it?

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY

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Re: Print to Video Question: Not 16x9 on my external monitor?
by Katrina Mann on Jun 13, 2008 at 1:07:13 am

Thank you so much! I swear I'll still spend the weekend reading the DVDSP manual as promised to myself. But knowing this extremely helpful and encouraging.

Katrina



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Re: Print to Video Question: Not 16x9 on my external monitor?
by Katrina Mann on Jun 23, 2008 at 8:18:45 am

Hi David,

Thanks for your help. Is this also the best process for sequences that have mixed frame sizes and aspect ratios? And frame rates in fact. Most of our footage is 1920x1080i, 23.98, but we have a smattering of 30 fps 4:3 archival.

Should I still export a Qicktime movie with Current settings? And do I need to check Anamorphic in the browser column of this sequence?

Thank you



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Re: Print to Video Question: Not 16x9 on my external monitor?
by David Roth Weiss on Jun 23, 2008 at 8:48:47 am

Hey Katrina,

Give it a shot, but you're probably going to encounter many issues with interlacing that you may not have seen until now. How have you been monitoring?

I'm heading to sleep now BTW, so I'll check back in the a.m.

David

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.


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Re: Print to Video Question: Not 16x9 on my external monitor?
by Katrina Mann on Jun 23, 2008 at 8:59:50 am

We've just been monitoring on a second computer screen - Digital Cinema Desktop preview. And I've just been de-interlacing the 4:3 stuff with the De-interlace Video filter. The archival in on initial DVDs I made in iDVD did look pretty bad though.

I have been reading the DVD SP manual, and got the Peachpit book today, but can't find what I'm supposed to do with this situation. I figure it must be pretty common.

Thanks so much for any help



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Re: Print to Video Question: Not 16x9 on my external monitor?
by Rafael Amador on May 27, 2008 at 3:20:02 am

The "squeezing" can be done by the playback machine (DVD) or by the monitor. In both cases the result is the same. Old DVD players can't do 16x9. You need to change the aspect in the TV set.
VTR's do not understand of Anamorphic. There is not difference at all between a 4x3 or 16x9 SD video signal. Is just to different ways to do the vertical scanning of your screen. Is like writing a text in a paper letting more or less space between the lines.

Mac OX 10.5.2-FC 6.02-QT 7.4.1
G5 2x2Gh 4GbRAM-BlackMagic Extreme
PMBP 17"Core2Duo 4GbRAM-AJA ioHD
JVC DTV-17"
SONY EX-1 . SONY PD170
..and always a big mess on top of the table.

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Re: Print to Video Question: Not 16x9 on my external monitor?
by Kevin Monahan on May 27, 2008 at 5:13:25 pm

I learned something too. FHA is a term I am not familiar with. Dylan must be an engineering "type". PROPS! :-)

Kevin Monahan
www.fcpworld.com
Author - Motion Graphics and Effects in Final Cut Pro

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Re: Print to Video Question: Not 16x9 on my external monitor?
by Dylan Reeve on May 27, 2008 at 8:56:08 pm

FHA might just be one of those weird BBC terms that seem to make their way into the industry outside the UK. Although that's what we always tag our programs with on the ID Board - "Aspect: 16:9FHA"



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