apple cinema HD 23" display, help me decide
by chris gorman
on
May 11, 2008 at 4:01:34 am
I'm getting ready to buy an HD monitor for viewing my hdv or ProRes 422 std timeline in realtime. I like the under $900 price for apple cinema HD 23" display.
Before I make the purchase I'd appreciate any input. I want to keep the price under $1000 and it needs to work with my PowerMac G5 dual 2.3, with AGP graphics card ATIX800XT. Hopefully I don't have to add some other type of card for realtime display. I'm using fcp 6.0.3
I'm not doing super high end color correction, but I do want an acceptably accurate color/exposure display and a good enough resolution so that I can trust that focus problems or motion artifacting is not present in the footage. I wouldn't want a client viewing on an HDTV to see problems in the footage that I may have missed because of monitoring limitations.
My dvi port is occupied with my vga computer workstation monitor, so I'll be getting an adc to dvi adaptor so I can hook it up to the adc port on my card.
Re: apple cinema HD 23" display, help me decide by Shane Ross on May 11, 2008 at 5:59:56 am
Sorry, but you are going to have to spend at least $2000. The Apple display alone won't cut it. Digital Cinema Desktop to the monitor gives you a low res proxie image, rife with all sorts of artifacting. Only with the Matrox MXO will you see what you really have on that ACD...
Re: apple cinema HD 23" display, help me decide by chris gorman on May 11, 2008 at 10:42:35 am
Yes, I was thinking about getting the mxo about a year ago. After all this time and Apple upgrades etc., you think this is still the best choice in the affordable range, right? Are you recommending the mxo and not the mxo2?
I wonder if I'll hit a snag with the fact that my available connection on my G5 card is the odd adc port. If I can get an adc to dvi adapter I can make the connection, but hope it wouldn't compromise anything by using an adapter?
Re: apple cinema HD 23" display, help me decide by Shane Ross on May 11, 2008 at 4:27:53 pm
[chris gorman]"you think this is still the best choice in the affordable range, right?"
Yup. I don't recommend what is the cheapest a year ago...I remain current.
[chris gorman]"Are you recommending the mxo and not the mxo2?"
The MXO 2 isn't out yet. And it doesn't connect to an Apple monitor, as it doesn't have DVI out. It has Component, SDI, COmposite and HDMI out...and the only HDMI monitors are consumer HDTVs.
[chris gorman]"I wonder if I'll hit a snag with the fact that my available connection on my G5 card is the odd adc port. If I can get an adc to dvi adapter I can make the connection, but hope it wouldn't compromise anything by using an adapter?"
Put your regular computer monitor on that. YOu had DVI and ADC, right? If not, then adapter should work...same information, just different connector type.
Re: apple cinema HD 23" display, help me decide by walter biscardi on May 11, 2008 at 4:44:33 pm
[Shane Ross]"and the only HDMI monitors are consumer HDTVs."
actually, the Panny Pro Plasmas now come with one or two HDMI inputs standard. I wouldn't use this for color grading alone unless you had it properly calibrated. I also would not use HDMI for my pro monitoring anyway, but that's another story.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.
Re: apple cinema HD 23" display, help me decide by chris gorman on May 11, 2008 at 8:26:09 pm
This thread is very helpful, thanks.
I can't use the adc port for my vga computer workstation monitor because the adapter for adc to vga is no longer available and I don't have one. So the acd with have to connect to the mxo via an adapter to the adc connection. ie., a adc to dvi. Hope that extra piece of hardware doesn't slow down or cause any problems.
I guess the Kona LH pci-x would fit my G5, but it's more bucks and I could never figure out if the features are something I'd need.
Re: apple cinema HD 23" display, help me decide by Chris Poisson on May 11, 2008 at 1:48:05 pm
Shane,
I am not qualified to disagree with you, so I won't. But, I want to point to some advice I got from Graeme Nattress a while back, which said that DVI out to a 23" ACD is about as close to an MXO as you can get. This was here on the Cow, but I can't find it.
He never said anything about a low res proxy image. And while I haven't done the excellent tests and photos you did for your article, I have sent 1080 sequences to my CRT via my Kona LH and via DVI to my ACD and the images are too close to argue about.
This whole discussion I had with Graeme was an effort to save my cheap ass from springing for an MXO, which, I agree is a great product and the calibration is a huge plus, but my needs for grading have turned out fine with the CRT, so it's all kinda moot.
But anyways, I was just curious about this proxy image thing...
Re: apple cinema HD 23" display, help me decide by Shane Ross on May 11, 2008 at 4:37:14 pm
[Chris Poisson]"DVI out to a 23" ACD is about as close to an MXO as you can get."
This is tough to answer, because you really have to see it to see what I am talking about. Graeme...to my knowledge...hasn't come to see a demo of this unit, and the guys at the Matrox booths at conventions (and I) show people the difference. While it is close, once you see what the MXO can do...it seems like night and day. The red color bleeds on Digital Cinema Desktop...and interlacing "stepping" can be seen..as well as moire effect on line art and grooves in the road.
Switch to the MXO and the RED is normal, the moire is gone, and the stepping is gone as well. AND...DCP cannot show you a properly interlaced image....the MXO can.
Oh...and with the MXO you can calibrate your monitor to bars...and BLUE ONLY gun built in. Something you cannot do with Digital Cinema Preview.
THis is all very difficult to prove...it has to be seen to be believed.
Oh, and Chris...cheaper HD cards exist...Decklink Intensity and Intensity Pro...but those are for PCIe Mac Pro towers only.
Re: apple cinema HD 23" display, help me decide by Chris Poisson on May 11, 2008 at 6:21:06 pm
Shane,
Interesting, I do have a Kona LH just like you, so I don't need another card, but the info on the MXO is helpful nonetheless. If I come out of my divorce and recent illness with any cash, I'll probably buy one!
Re: apple cinema HD 23" display, help me decide by Stefan Boyland on May 22, 2008 at 11:45:17 am
I am curious. I have the Kona Lh card in my computer for capturing analogue HD signals.
I have not used the output for monitoring HD material...yet.
In your opinon, using a 2nd Apple Cinema Display (say 23") with the Kona Lh card, how would you compare that setup for color correcting and editing, to adding a professional CRT monitor from Sony (either an HD monitor for like $5K or an SD monitor for 1K)?
Does the Kona Lh card do something so the LCD display shows very accurate colors? How accurate? Good enough for decent HDTV work? Good enough for a feature film?
Lastly what about comparing (as a monitoring solution) the Lh card to the MXO Matrix...purely as far as observing the images...will you get the same quality image using say an Apple Cinema display or is one more color accurate.
Thx so much in advance...your posts are very good..the ones I read at least.
Re: apple cinema HD 23" display, help me decide by Shane Ross on May 22, 2008 at 4:03:36 pm
[Stefan Boyland]"In your opinon, using a 2nd Apple Cinema Display (say 23") with the Kona Lh card, how would you compare that setup for color correcting and editing,"
You can't. The LH doesn't have DVI outs, and the ACD doesn't have Component ins. I have the Dell and that does have component inputs, and I have used that with the Kona LH...but the image is NOWHERE near broadcast quality. Even if you got the AJA HDP, that converts HD SDI to DVI, it wouldn't be color correctable. Because you cannot set up the monitor to color bars. Only the MXO in combination with the ACD allows this.
[Stefan Boyland]"how would you compare that setup for color correcting and editing, to adding a professional CRT monitor from Sony (either an HD monitor for like $5K or an SD monitor for 1K)?"
The professional CRT or LCD would win, hands down. NO contest. Now the MXO and that solution...that solution would still win, but the ACD would be close. The MXO/ACD is a low cost solution. Not quite as good as the $5k to $12K solutions, but still very good.
[Stefan Boyland]"Does the Kona Lh card do something so the LCD display shows very accurate colors? How accurate?"
Nope...it doesn't. Not accurate.
[Stefan Boyland]"Good enough for decent HDTV work? Good enough for a feature film?"
No and no.
[Stefan Boyland]"Lastly what about comparing (as a monitoring solution) the Lh card to the MXO Matrix...purely as far as observing the images...will you get the same quality image using say an Apple Cinema display or is one more color accurate."
I have the Matrox MXO and the Kona LH and a Sony PVM-14L5 HD CRT monitor. Side by side they are close. Blacks are better on the CRT, as is the saturation. But to my eye the color and hue were spot on. I'd trust the MXO/ACD for color correction, and I have. A good low cost solution. But does it compare to a DaVinci room with a high end HD CRT? No.
