Perfect FCP to AE workflow
by Michael Nikitin
on
Apr 28, 2008 at 4:39:17 am
Hi everyone,
I've got an FCP project, and I need to do some work on the footage in After Effects. The footage is DV-NTSC, lower fields, 29.97. I've got no Automatic Duck, and no funds to get it. So, that pretty much means that I need to render files out of FCP, then bring them into AE (please correct me if I am wrong.)
I ran some tests, rendering files out as Uncompressed, and Animation, and ProResHQ... no matter what I try, the footage degrades. It's barely perceptible when I render the footage as Uncompressed, but I can still see a little bit of a deterioration in high-contrast areas, like cracks in the walls, for instance. The footages becomes just a tad softer. And I really don't like that. (Anything other than Uncompressed, the issue becomes more noticeable.)
So, I guess, my question is -- are there any tricks in the workflow that I'm not aware of, and is there anything I can do to have a truly lossless transfer from FCP to AE? (I did turn on "preserve edges" settings in AE already, btw.)
Re: Perfect FCP to AE workflow by Michael Nikitin on Apr 28, 2008 at 5:06:24 am
I could, theoretically, but I would have to pretty much recreate the FCP sequence in AE for that to work... and it's a fairly complex sequence, with numerous effects and crossfades all over the place, which are applied to the footage in Final Cut, already.
This route is something I can fall back on, when all else fails... but it would mean hours of moving stuff around, in practical terms. Maybe dozens of hours.
Any other ideas? :-)
Re: Perfect FCP to AE workflow by Rafael Amador on Apr 28, 2008 at 6:22:56 am
Try Nattress "Chroma Smooth/Sharpening" on top of your DV footage in FC( 411. Smooth then Sharp).
Set the sequence to 10b Unc and "Render all YUV in High precision". The footage will look much better than the original. No degradation, no blocks. You won't believe it was DV footage.
Mac OX 10.5.2-FC 6.02-QT 7.4.1
G5 2x2Gh 4GbRAM-BlackMagic Extreme
PMBP 17"Core2Duo 4GbRAM-AJA ioHD
JVC DTV-17"
SONY EX-1 . SONY PD170
..and always a big mess on top of the table.
Re: Perfect FCP to AE workflow by Steve Covello on Apr 28, 2008 at 1:24:50 pm
Two things:
Don't export in any other format other than what is native to your footage/timeline. Use the plain old "QuickTime Movie". this essentially clones your media without transcoding it.
There are certain sw requirements, and the process is a bit tricky, but it is free and it actually worked when I tried it. but you really have to follow the directions to the letter.
The alternative, AKA the Slow Stupid Way, is to export the entire sequence as a single QT [or QT reference movie - though not a good idea for a long sequence subject to change], bring into AE, then park at the head frame of each scene and do CMD + D to split the layer at the edit point. This sucks but it works.
Re: Perfect FCP to AE workflow by Michael Nikitin on Apr 28, 2008 at 6:24:26 pm
Hi Steve,
I remember trying to use this script some time ago, and the results were buggy - some of the media lost its in and out points. But I have since upgraded to FCP 6.0.2, so maybe this time the outcome will be better. Thanks for reminding me; I'll try it.
As far as sticking to DV-NTSC, and rendering it out as such, since this is the source format... it makes sense. I wonder, though -- would it make any difference if I render files out as Quicktime movies, or if I went with "using Quicktime conversion"? (Actually, I've been curious about these two alternatives withing FCP's export options all along, and never found out what the difference was.)
Thanks again!
Re: Perfect FCP to AE workflow by Rafael Amador on Apr 29, 2008 at 2:12:19 am
[Michael Nikitin]"would it make any difference if I render files out as Quicktime movies, or if I went with "using Quicktime conversion"? " Try to avoid "QT Conversion. When you export to QT from FC, only the clips where you have hanged something are rendered. With QT Conversion all your footage is re-compressed. You loose a generation.
Mac OX 10.5.2-FC 6.02-QT 7.4.1
G5 2x2Gh 4GbRAM-BlackMagic Extreme
PMBP 17"Core2Duo 4GbRAM-AJA ioHD
JVC DTV-17"
SONY EX-1 . SONY PD170
..and always a big mess on top of the table.
Re: Perfect FCP to AE workflow by Michael Nikitin on Apr 28, 2008 at 6:16:54 pm
Thanks, Rafael! I'll make sure to try that. I'm not sure if it will work, because I'm using Aja IoHd via HDMI, and I think that this setup only allows RGB colorspace, whereas the route you are suggesting entails going into YUV (if I understand correctly.) But I will try, and report back on the results.
Re: Perfect FCP to AE workflow by walter biscardi on Apr 28, 2008 at 1:38:03 pm
[Michael Nikitin]"but it would mean hours of moving stuff around, in practical terms. Maybe dozens of hours."
Well since you say you have no money for the Automatic Duck plug-in, which will do this work in a matter of seconds, then this is what you are going to have to do.
There's no easy way to move projects from FCP to AE except through the Duck.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.
Re: Perfect FCP to AE workflow by david bogie on Apr 28, 2008 at 1:50:22 pm
[walter biscardi]"There's no easy way to move projects from FCP to AE except through the Duck."
Yar, but the whole question of workflow needed to be addressed earlier. Perhaps the individual clips should have been tweaked before editing started.
Other question: What are you needing in AE that FCP/Color/Motino cannot deliver more directly?
Another question: Image degradation really cannot be avoided if you are processing the DV pixels. DV is terribly lossy/noisy and any filter in AE will process every single pixel. Degrading of an image is subjective, many of the filters may actually be improving your image.
bogiesan
This is my standard sigfile so do not take it personally: "For crying out loud, read the freakin' manual."
Re: Perfect FCP to AE workflow by Dave LaRonde on Apr 28, 2008 at 4:44:46 pm
There's a software snippet that MIGHT be able to do the trick: FCPtoAE, free from the nice folks at Popcorn Island (google it).
If you have ANY effects, filters, changes in motion, etc., FCP will ALWAYS re-render clips on their way to AE, which is NOT what you want to do with DV.
Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA
Re: Perfect FCP to AE workflow by Michael Nikitin on Apr 28, 2008 at 6:41:03 pm
Thanks, Dave. I'll try it.
I don't care if I lose all the effects that are done in FCP, because I can quickly re-create them in AE. It's the cutting that I don't want to do in After Effects. :-)
Re: Perfect FCP to AE workflow by Michael Nikitin on Apr 28, 2008 at 9:42:08 pm
Dave. It worked. I'm speechless. Thanks so much! And a big thank you to the guys at Popcorn Island.
In case if anyone has the same issue as I did, while having as little scripting experience as I do, here's what needs to be done (it was not apparent to me what to do with the jsx file, at first), --
The PI_FCP2AE.jsxbin file goes to After Effects' "Scripts" folder. Then, you need to run After Effects, go to File->Scripts->PI_FCP2AE, locate your XML (Version 3 worked for me) that you generated in Final Cut, and... voila.
I am using Final Cut 6.0.2 and AE CS3, btw.
Once again, thank you Dave, thank you Cow, thank you everyone! Damn! I'm so excited. I want to love the world and dedicate my life to public service...
Re: Perfect FCP to AE workflow by Michael Nikitin on Apr 28, 2008 at 6:35:56 pm
Other question: What are you needing in AE that FCP/Color/Motino cannot deliver more directly?
Well... it's a bit of a philosophical question. :-) The short answer is, I'm more used to After Effects, and it would take me a long time to get up to speed on Motion, Shake, and the rest of it, on the same level that I am in AE. Not that it is a bad idea to be comfortable with the former, but it will take time, and I'm under some deadlines.
While we're on the subject... when I export files from FCP into Shake, let's say, and then do some compositing voodoo there, then take them back into FCP timeline, -- isn't there some rendering involved? I mean, these files become standalone Quicktimes, so, am I adding an extra generation of compression in the process?
