Confused newbie seeking advice
by Paul Burgess
on
Feb 10, 2008 at 9:37:05 pm
I have only just come over from Avid Liquid to the FCP world and a Mac.
I have a Power Mac 8 core 3 Gz with 8 Gig of ram. I have two 30 inch HP displays on the mac. In addition to the Apple Studio 2 software I use AE and Ps etc.
All my work i for my own productions - mainly marine based video.
I use my own cameras only - a Sony Z1 HDV and the Sony PMW-EX1 using HD XDCAM.
I am now looking to do the following jobs:-
1. Colour correction - so I need output to a monitor that can handle that and the means to output the signal.
2. Component output to a plasma 42 inch that I already own.
3. If possible improved rendering speed. I edit the HDV in ProRes and the XDCAM in its native imported QT wrapped form.
So what hardware would be the best route to go to achieve the above?
All advice appreciated.
Re: Confused newbie seeking advice by Shane Ross on Feb 10, 2008 at 10:05:04 pm
[Paul Burgess]"1. Colour correction - so I need output to a monitor that can handle that and the means to output the signal."
For that you will need an HD capture card. AJA and Black Magic make cards for this. And then you will need an HD monitor that will accept the signal. For broadcast quality you will need a broadcast quality HD LCD, and they start at about $3500. If you are making DVDs only, then the BlackMagic Intensity and an HDMI HDTV should be a good option for you.
[Paul Burgess]"2. Component output to a plasma 42 inch that I already own."
For that you'd need the Decklink Intensity Pro, or Decklink Extreme, or AJA Kona LHe.
[Paul Burgess]"
3. If possible improved rendering speed. I edit the HDV in ProRes and the XDCAM in its native imported QT wrapped form."
The only way you can improve render times is to get a computer with faster processors. RAM helps too, but to a lesser extent.
Re: Confused newbie seeking advice by Paul Burgess on Feb 10, 2008 at 10:19:44 pm
Thanks for the advice.
I need to ask more questions to clear up my 'overinfoed' mind.
.1, HD Monitoring - is it not cheaper to get the AJA MXO box and an Apple 23 inch display?
Over here in the UK that would cost about $2500 USA for the pair.
Or will that not provide the quality needed for Colour correction?
Or does the Kona 3 card/bob provide an output that matches the MXO as well as the component for the plasma?
2. I was told there was no point in going over 8 gig on the ram because ti would not be used by FCP etc. So I have to accept that thats my limit for rendering but does not the Kona 3 lift off some burden from the Mac and therefore speed up the rendering?
My work is all output to DVD or in various forms to the web. Never the less I am trying to achieve the highest quality so that they may be later used on some specialist TV channels.
So I do some conversion work for the web and of course use Compressor etc.
Looking forward to your response and once again thank you for taking the time to advise.
Re: Confused newbie seeking advice by Shane Ross on Feb 10, 2008 at 10:33:02 pm
[Paul Burgess]".1, HD Monitoring - is it not cheaper to get the AJA MXO box and an Apple 23 inch display?"
Yes, that combination is the cheapest way to go to get proper colors. And since you were working with HDV and XDCAM, importing via firewire and via the SS card, I would have recommended it. However, I heard that the PAL version of the Apple Display doesn't have the proper refresh rate. the MXO and ACD combo need the 59.94 rate...60 Hz basically. You being in PAL land the refresh rate of the ACD isn't quite right. That's why I didn't mention it. It provides the quality you need, but it might not work properly there. E-mail the guys at Matrox and see if you get get a better answer.
[Paul Burgess]"2. I was told there was no point in going over 8 gig on the ram because ti would not be used by FCP etc. So I have to accept that thats my limit for rendering but does not the Kona 3 lift off some burden from the Mac and therefore speed up the rendering?"
No capture cards assist in rendering. Some help with more RT effects with certain formats, like HDV and DVCPRO HD (the Kona 3 does this), but they don't speed up rendering. And unless you plan on running multiple programs at the same time, getting more than 8GB of RAM won't help.
Re: Confused newbie seeking advice by Paul Burgess on Feb 10, 2008 at 10:46:13 pm
Now there is some solid advice that could have cost me dearly - i will check the matter out as you suggest.
My system still takes ages doing QT conversions etc.
I assume the Kona 3 would help with this? Help a lot?
It would also provide the component output.
I am trying to base my decisions on longer term needs hence the multiple questions.
Once again thanks for the advice and sorry to pester ou with questions :-)
Re: Confused newbie seeking advice by Shane Ross on Feb 10, 2008 at 11:08:23 pm
[Paul Burgess]"My system still takes ages doing QT conversions etc.
I assume the Kona 3 would help with this? Help a lot?"
You assume incorrectly. The Kona will not be able to help with this at all. It can convert as it captures to many formats, but it cannot aid in conversion via software like Compressor.
[Paul Burgess]"It would also provide the component output."
That it will do. SDI in only, but Component and composite outs.
[Paul Burgess]"Once again thanks for the advice and sorry to pester ou with questions :-)"
Re: Confused newbie seeking advice by Paul Burgess on Feb 10, 2008 at 11:36:47 pm
OK. thank you - almost there now.
You wrote, in relation to outputting to a broadcast monitor:-
"For that you will need an HD capture card. AJA and Black Magic make cards for this"
Which exact card would you suggest?
Won't a AJA Kona LHe do that job as well as outputting to the large plasma?
Re: Confused newbie seeking advice by Shane Ross on Feb 10, 2008 at 11:45:04 pm
[Paul Burgess]"Which exact card would you suggest?"
The one that suits your needs. A Decklink Extreme is only $995, and can input and output HD SDI, Component, Composite and S-Video. The Decklink Intensity Pro inputs and outputs Component, COmposite and S-Video, and costs $400. Both are cheaper than the Kona LHe. But, the Kona LHe adds more RT to HDV and DVCPRO HD in terms of effects handling. So it all depends on your needs.
[Paul Burgess]"Won't a AJA Kona LHe do that job as well as outputting to the large plasma?"
Yes, as will the Decklink cards I mentioned.
I like AJA, but I also want you to know that Decklink is a perfectly viable option.
Re: Confused newbie seeking advice by Paul Burgess on Feb 10, 2008 at 11:59:31 pm
My plan is now to:-
1. Check out with Matrox to see if I can use the MXO in PAL land - I do not expect a positive answer.
2. In any even get the AJA Kona LHe card as it will let me connect the plasma and the broadcast monitor (I guess not at the same time unless you can suggest some sort of splitter box.) and I will get some RT effects speed benefits as well. I just like the quality vibes coming out of Kona products.
3. If step one is a no go with the MXO what colour LCD broadcast monitors would you go for?
I have no idea of which is best - its purpose would be to colour correct using Colour - or Color as I should learn to call it :-) I do not want to go mad on price but would need something that can do the job properly.
Re: Confused newbie seeking advice by Shane Ross on Feb 11, 2008 at 12:03:40 am
[Paul Burgess]"
2. In any even get the AJA Kona LHe card as it will let me connect the plasma and the broadcast monitor (I guess not at the same time unless you can suggest some sort of splitter box.)"
Can to. You can go HD SDI to a broadcast monitor, and then COmponent to the plasma. Or component to the broadcast monitor, and with the aid of a HD SDI to DVI box like the AJA HDP then DVI to HDMI, you can connect the plasma.
[Paul Burgess]"3. If step one is a no go with the MXO what colour LCD broadcast monitors would you go for?"
My favorites are, in this order:
TVLOGIC LVM-240D - $7995
JVC DTV 24L2D - $4695
Panasonic BT-LH1700 or LH2600
Sony LMD-2450W HD
All will work with the MXO. And the AJA or Decklink cards too.
Re: Confused newbie seeking advice by Paul Burgess on Feb 11, 2008 at 12:18:58 am
Thanks once again.
Having decided to investigate the JVC 24L2D I cannot trace it anywhere on Google!
Its only reference is back to your messages?
Have you got the model number right?
Re: Confused newbie seeking advice by Ken Summerall on Feb 11, 2008 at 2:19:13 pm
Paul and Shane,
I don't mean to confuse the waters here but I noticed that you are already using 2 30" ACD's. I think that trying to add a MXO to this mix would cause you to lose use of one of your 30 inchers. Shane, you have a MXO, is this correct?
Again, don't mean to confuse but I would hate for you to have to retire a 30" ACD, unless you want to send it to me!
Ken Summerall
Wellwater Productions, Inc.
"A non-profit production company specializing in media with a mission."
Re: Confused newbie seeking advice by Shane Ross on Feb 11, 2008 at 3:07:55 pm
The MXO does not work with the 30" Apple Displays. They are dual link DVI and the MXO is single link. It only works with the 23" ACD, and would display pixel for pixel.
Re: Confused newbie seeking advice by Paul Burgess on Feb 11, 2008 at 3:25:02 pm
As I see it (and I am sure I will be corrected if wrong)
If I use the MXO then I will lose one of the 30 inch displays because basically the MXO takes the DVI in and out leaving nowhere to plug in my second 30 inch.
BUT if I use a card, the card will give me a DVI out to a broadcast monitor plus the component out to the 42 inch plasma whilst still leaving me the two 30 inch monitors connected --- right?
Re: Confused newbie seeking advice by Shane Ross on Feb 11, 2008 at 3:40:46 pm
[Paul Burgess]"If I use the MXO then I will lose one of the 30 inch displays because basically the MXO takes the DVI in and out leaving nowhere to plug in my second 30 inch."
You have two? Wow. Yeah, you'd lose one of them, as the MXO does not work with the 30" displays. They are dual link DVI, and the MXO is single link only. Typically what you'd do in a two monitor environment is have the MXO connected to one of the monitors. It allows for play thru of the monitor signal, and will switch to broadcast monitoring when you press Apple-F12 (View>External>All Frames).
To me this is fine, as I would use the two displays to perform my creative cutting, then when it came time to color correct, switch the MXO on and use one monitor to color correct and one to look at my image.
But yes, with the MXO you cannot have two computer monitors and one broadcast monitor. You can try the DualHead2Go from Matrox, to split one port to two monitors. But I have had terrible luck trying to get that to work.
Re: Confused newbie seeking advice by Paul Burgess on Feb 11, 2008 at 5:55:48 pm
Shane -If I choose to go the card route. not the MXO box, then the card has the extra DVI out for the broadcast monitor and the component out out for the plasma = all three monitors and the plasma at once - right?
Re: Confused newbie seeking advice by Shane Ross on Feb 11, 2008 at 6:57:26 pm
A capture card is installed differently. The MXO connects via DVI. Most capture cards are installed internally, in PCIe or PCI-X slots...so they don't take up a monitor port. So you can have two monitors and your plasma. A couple other options connect via Firewire 800, AJA I/O HD and MOTU V3HD. I know the AJA box has HDMI in and out...but costs $3500. Not sure what the Motu has...gotta research that yourself.
Re: Confused newbie seeking advice by Dave LaRonde on Feb 11, 2008 at 9:02:29 pm
[Paul Burgess]"2. I was told there was no point in going over 8 gig on the ram because it would not be used by FCP etc."
That's partially right.
More than 8GB may be useless in FCP, but not in other applications. The latest version of After Effects, for example, has a Multiprocessing mode, allowing each processor to access up to 2GB RAM for faster rendering. It's a substitute for Nucleo, although Nucleo Pro can still be a good buy for the power AE user.
If you do a lot of AE work, you might consider tricking your machine out with RAM.
