Exporting hi-def timeline out of FCP in order to import into Premiere
by Matthew Bruder
on
Jan 29, 2008 at 3:09:26 am
Hi all. I did some digging around in this forum and can't figure out my problem. Suffice it to say, I have projects in FCP and I need to be able to export the timeline into a MPEG2 file that I can then import to Premiere. I can't seem to get FCP to export anything that is even readable by a PC. It either makes these FCP-icon files that even in Mac cause FCP to open upon double clicking the files. Adding to the frustration the .mov's that I make using the HDV 1080i codec are not openable in Mac, let alone PC.
So again, I want to be able to export footage I captured and edited in FCP off my Sony FX1, into an MPEG2 hi-def video file that I can import this into Premiere Pro on my PC. I want to be able to do this as lossessly as possible. I realize there's going to be compression in these steps (not as in avi.)
Re: Exporting hi-def timeline out of FCP in order to import into Premiere by Chris Borjis on Jan 29, 2008 at 3:45:40 am
you shouldn't export it as mpeg, even if it worked the quality hit would be pretty substantial.
one cross-platform option that works for me is exporting the timeline with uncompressed audio and motion jpet (mjpeg) as the codec, set for a quality of 90%.
thats as lossless/painless as you can get without having issues.
Re: Exporting hi-def timeline out of FCP in order to import into Premiere by David Roth Weiss on Jan 29, 2008 at 4:54:14 am
[Matthew Bruder]"It either makes these FCP-icon files that even in Mac cause FCP to open upon double clicking the files. Adding to the frustration the .mov's that I make using the HDV 1080i codec are not openable in Mac, let alone PC."
Matthew,
If you right click on those files and choose Open with -- Quicktime Player, you will find that these are just Quicktimes like any other, but with a FCP icon. So, the only reason you can't open them on a MAC is because you don't know how. Meanwhile, you can't open them on a PC because the Apple HDV codec is one of the proprietary Apple Quicktimes that isn't licensed to play on anything but MACs.
David
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Re: Exporting hi-def timeline out of FCP in order to import into Premiere by Matthew Bruder on Jan 29, 2008 at 5:01:06 am
I should have been more clear. I know how to open files via the method you prescribe. When I open those files using right click open with quick time, they open in QT but show a white screen. The same happens on my PC, thus I didn't think PC vs MAC had anything to do with it. For what it's worth I have all the HD and mpeg2 codecs installed on my MAC. The same white screen results when I try to open the raw hi-def capture files. A raw capture in HD is an mpeg2, it SHOULD in theory open with QT. Do you have any suggestions as to why I'm getting this white screen?
Re: Exporting hi-def timeline out of FCP in order to import into Premiere by Matthew Bruder on Jan 29, 2008 at 6:23:56 pm
OK, I want to use Premiere b/c my PC is way faster than my Mac and it handles the compression out to .WMV files (the necessary output for me) WAAAY faster. About 2000% faster. It has tons of other support files that I need, it has 8gigs of Quicktrax that I need. I could go on...
Also, I don't really see why mpeg2 is so lossy. In Premiere, when I capture footage off my FX1 it captures as an mpeg2 file, b/c that's how the FX1 handles hi-def; it is "natively' mpeg2. (I'm sure you know all this, I'm just building my question.) That mpeg2 file is then portable across a bunch of other PC-based systems. If I render an edited timeline at 100% quality, mpeg2, file at 25mbps from Premiere, there is no detectable loss in quality that I can see. I know it's there, b/c I understand that any time any mpeg2 is rendered out in this way there's going to be a compression process. Why choose 25mbps? Well that's the theoretical bitrate its coming off the camera (I'm sure you knew that too) so now I have an edit that is very close to the quality of the original capture.
As a side note, is it weird that QT can't play the capture files? In the PC world, any number of players can play captured hi-def footage.
Your questions:
What's the original you're cutting? (see above; captured hi-def files)
How exactly are are you exporting? (Compressor or QT Conversion?)
I didn't use QT Conversion b/c I didn't see hi-def settings that I'm used to in Premiere like "HDV 1080i60."
Exactly which codec and what settings are you selecting? (not sure what codec FCP is using if it's behind the scenes. I'm just doing the process I outlined above.)
And, what is your overall objective? (What will cutting MPEG files in Premiere actually accomplish???) (see above)
My questions.
How do I know what codecs are on my MAC?
How do I install a Black Magic codec?
How do I specify in FCP to use that Black Magic codec when writing out a file? Will it show up in the drop downs?
Re: Exporting hi-def timeline out of FCP in order to import into Premiere by Brian McCartney on Jan 30, 2008 at 12:25:20 am
Unfortunately there is no easy cross platform compatibility between PC and MAC when it comes to HDV. Neither the native captured QT files (mpeg2-TS) nor the AIC (Apple intermediate codec) will work on a PC. For AIC it's obvious, Apple does not include that codec in QT for Windows. For the "native" HDV QT clips its a bit more confusing but basically it has to do with the QT wrapper on the media. It just doesn't work on QT for Windows.
I think the common wisdom is that you really don't want to edit a highly compressed file type if it is at all avoidable. The MPEG2 Transport Stream HDV uses is really best fit as an acquisition format, not really for editing. That being said, FCP and Premiere took to great lengths to accommodate that exact modality of editing to keep things easy for the user. Unfortunately the way the two programs handles the media are not compatible with each other.
So the trick is to find an "intermediate" codec that you can export from FCP and then import into Premiere. I think the Black Magic codecs might be the ticket although I have never tried that workflow. As soon as the codec is installed you should be able to export using Quicktime conversion out of FCP and then just choose that codec and the appropriate settings.
As an aside, I have found that Episode from Telestream does a great job encoding WMV files on my MacPro. Actually faster than my PC running squeeze or the Premiere media encoder. And a bit better quality too! Of course your mileage may vary...
Re: Exporting hi-def timeline out of FCP in order to import into Premiere by Sean ONeil on Jan 30, 2008 at 2:02:20 am
[Matthew Bruder]"That mpeg2 file is then portable across a bunch of other PC-based systems. If I render an edited timeline at 100% quality, mpeg2, file at 25mbps from Premiere, there is no detectable loss in quality that I can see. I know it's there, b/c I understand that any time any mpeg2 is rendered out in this way there's going to be a compression process. Why choose 25mbps? Well that's the theoretical bitrate its coming off the camera (I'm sure you knew that too) so now I have an edit that is very close to the quality of the original capture. "
The HDV file on your Mac resides within a Quicktime wrapper (.MOV). In order to use it in Windows natively without any quality loss, it will need to be re-wrapped (not re-encoded) as HDV with a Video for Windows wrapper (.AVI).
It's $250. I don't know why or how badly you need a cross-platform HDV workflow. For a lot less than that you could get a firewire card for your PC and capture directly with Premiere. I strongly suggest taking a step back and re-evaluate your workflow plans. As someone here mentioned, Motion-JPEG is a good option.
Re: Exporting hi-def timeline out of FCP in order to import into Premiere by Matthew Bruder on Jan 30, 2008 at 7:33:57 pm
I realize my work flow is wonky. It's a long story, not worth going into.
Actually, I've been using Flip4Mac to get wmv's out of the timeline from FCP and it works great, it's just incredibly slow, like overnight slow. As far as encoding wmv's on the PC, Premiere is complete crap, and I've found using Windows Media Encoder or Ulead (which uses the WME engine) is far superior.
I'll give Black Magic and motion Jpeg a shot to see what results I get.
