"ammunition" for FCP in schools
by Geof Gilland
on
Oct 31, 2007 at 12:37:03 pm
While I'm not interested in starting a war between PC vs Mac's, I would like to hear if anyone has found or can point me to information on the following:
1) state of the mac in post production
2) number of FCP seats sold
A local school system is giving a teacher difficulties with her purchase of macs for use in the television lab. I just need some numbers that reflect what many of us already know, that macs are an itegral part of post and desgin houses.
Re: "ammunition" for FCP in schools by walter biscardi on Oct 31, 2007 at 12:51:56 pm
I would suspect on Apple.com you can do some searches for this but at NAB Apple announced 800,000 Registered Users of Final Cut Pro right as Final Cut Studio 2 was being released. I've heard it is over 1,000,000 today, but don't have a link to those numbers.
As for the State of the Mac in Post Production, at least in Atlanta I can tell you that FCP is probably installed 20 to 1 over any other form of NLE. If you look at that Apple pro site, you will be able to find a lot of examples of how FCP is used in Post. The biggest early splash for FCP in broadcast Post was "Scrubs" for NBC which has been cut on FCP for quite some time now.
As for us, we're delivering "Good Eats" to the Food Network in HD (three seasons now), "Assignment Earth" overseas in HD, "The Carter Center" documentaries in HD and a whole host of other broadcast and documentary type work.
Keep in mind schools get a tremendous discount from Apple so do not use Apple's pricing as a "ammunition" unless you get the correct educational pricing. You will need to contact Apple or your local VAR. In fact, if you have a good VAR in your area, they should be able to help you get some facts and figures directly from their Apple reps.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
Stop Staring Start Grading with Apple Color The new Color Training DVD now available!
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Re: "ammunition" for FCP in schools by walter biscardi on Oct 31, 2007 at 1:11:18 pm
[Geof Gilland]"
Great, Thanks Walter. And your post is especially appreciated since the school district is in Georgia."
Oh, well if you want to contact me offline and tell me where your district is located, I can probably put you in touch with the proper VAR to help you get your information. You can get my email through my website.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
Stop Staring Start Grading with Apple Color The new Color Training DVD now available!
http://store.creativecow.net/p/66/stop_staring_and_start_grading_with_apple_color
Re: "ammunition" for FCP in schools by Shane Ross on Oct 31, 2007 at 1:59:00 pm
All of our Avid's are Mac based. MANY of the new ones are PC based, but Avid Media Composer is still Mac and PC based. But that is Avid. You want FCP numbers.
Here in LA, Avid is still the main editing system used. But FCP is growing VERY fast. Easily used in 1/3 of the productions out here. IN FACT, besides SCRUBS, there was a recent article in VIDEOGRAPHY that pointed out that THE CLOSER on TNT used FCP. Then there are places like Bunim/Murray that does THE REAL WORLD and THE SIMPLE LIFE that have over 100 FCP stations.
So it really isn't a MAC/PC thing, but rather an AVID/FCP thing....here anyway.
Re: "ammunition" for FCP in schools by Warren on Oct 31, 2007 at 4:26:51 pm
Over here in LA -Universal Studios, a lot of the new shows have moved to FCP. Some of these shows have not aired yet. There's been some grumbling by long time Avid users, but it is just cheaper in the long run, and it doesn't matter what you cut on as editing is an art, not about the tools. So they grumbled but it was cheaper to buy a bunch of FCP for everyone then just having a few Avid rentals.
Re: "ammunition" for FCP in schools by walter biscardi on Oct 31, 2007 at 4:32:57 pm
[Warren]"and it doesn't matter what you cut on as editing is an art, not about the tools."
That's the most important thing for all editors to remember. Everything you use is a tool, the application does not make you an editor.
[Warren]"So they grumbled but it was cheaper to buy a bunch of FCP for everyone then just having a few Avid rentals."
That's the most important thing for business owners. I have outfitted three Uncompressed HD systems for less than a single high end Avid Uncompressed HD system.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
Stop Staring Start Grading with Apple Color The new Color Training DVD now available!
http://store.creativecow.net/p/66/stop_staring_and_start_grading_with_apple_color
Re: "ammunition" for FCP in schools by lightning ad on Oct 31, 2007 at 1:10:05 pm
Apple were also using those same figures in London earlier this year. And don't forget that is just registered users - there are plenty of illegal copies doing the rounds as well.
Regardless of the NLE, Macs have been used in Post for over a decade both for FCP and Avid. early versions of Media 100 also ran on the Mac.
I know for a fact that all lot of facilities in UK use Mac/FCP. I use it for all my commercials (over 300 this year).
The Mac is the backbone of studios cutting stopframe animation shows Bob the Builder & Pingu ( i know - i worked on them).
I also use a separate mac for doing all my audio production on Protools.
Re: "ammunition" for FCP in schools by Chris Poisson on Oct 31, 2007 at 2:10:38 pm
Geof,
Last year I looked into teaching video/editing at a local community center, here's what I ran up against.
Macs were COMPLETELY out of the question. Compounding the problem, most people have PCs in their homes, so a PC-based solution seemed necessary. Fortunately, I found that AVID had AVID Free DV, which, while it has some limitations as to screen size requirements etc. was going to be a viable alternative to an Apple-based system. I actually downloaded it and began learning it, really not bad for a basic editing theory class.
Would I rather have them get Macs? Absolutely, but this is a government-run institution can't fight city hall!
Re: WALTER>>>>>What by walter biscardi on Oct 31, 2007 at 6:45:28 pm
[hdfilmmaker]".... are you guys shooting Assignment Earth on? what kind of cameras and what are you native FCP settings for editing that show?"
The D.P. prefers to use the Panasonic HDX-900, but some episodes are shot on the Sony Z1 if the location calls for it. For instance, "Damming the Mekong" was all shot up and down the Mekong River so they went with the Z1 in case it was dropped into the river and it was much smaller to deal with on that shoot.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
Stop Staring Start Grading with Apple Color The new Color Training DVD now available!
http://store.creativecow.net/p/66/stop_staring_and_start_grading_with_apple_color
Re: "ammunition" see Boise ID by bogiesan on Oct 31, 2007 at 6:13:22 pm
Haven't bothered to read the rest of the thread.
The issue with a bureaucracy cannot be solved by pointing at numbers. It's emotional and it's fueled by poor information from people who have no freakin' clue. You do not stand a chance unless you can determine exactly what the objections are and confront each of them directly.
But, here's hope: You might want to talk to some instructors at
They have a completely Macintosh-based video production curriculum and a Mac-based publishing setup. It's cool. And they face the same fight every fiscal year.
Vicki Francis heads up the photography and yearbook program based on a Mac server and Airports. She has student geeks/wonks running the whole thing. Leave her a message at the school 208.854.4490 and say hello from david bogie. The school's Web site doesn't have an email directory that I can find.
Rob Parsons heads up the video production outfit, I don't know him personally but say hi anyway.
Re: "ammunition" for FCP in schools by Bob Flood on Oct 31, 2007 at 4:43:16 pm
Hi
I was a student at emerson college from 75 to 79 (1975),
for a place that was supposed to be a very good communications school, we had the worst gear around. mostly discards from radio and tv stations (we actually had the original mccurdy console used on the Honeymooners. it was too heavy to get up the stairs so we left it in the lobby)
we groused about the gear, but I know it taught us how to use waht we had to make stuff, and to work around limitations to get the job done.
let the students use Windows Movie Maker, (which is supposed to be better thant iMovie) then they will focus on editing, and not on which button to press.
Re: "ammunition" for FCP in schools by walter biscardi on Oct 31, 2007 at 4:50:28 pm
[Bob Flood]"let the students use Windows Movie Maker, (which is supposed to be better thant iMovie)"
Oh good lord no. iMovie is a professional editing tool compared to Windows Movie Maker.
I agree with everything else you say, but not that.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
Stop Staring Start Grading with Apple Color The new Color Training DVD now available!
http://store.creativecow.net/p/66/stop_staring_and_start_grading_with_apple_color
Re: "ammunition" for FCP in schools by MHancock (promoboy) on Oct 31, 2007 at 5:38:53 pm
The school I'll be teaching at runs Final Cut Exress on iMacs. There are enough seats for every student in the class. Next semester we're going to start adding Avid seats in the PC labs (or Mac labs, whichever is available).
We spend one class dedicated to learning what the buttons are and how to use each program, and the advanced classes cover how to be an editor. It's designed so students will know two of the most popular tools in professional post production. Doubles their chances of getting a job once their reel gets their foot in the door.
Re: "ammunition" for FCP in schools by David Roth Weiss on Oct 31, 2007 at 5:54:28 pm
[Bob Flood]"I was a student at emerson college from 75 to 79 (1975), for a place that was supposed to be a very good communications school, we had the worst gear around. mostly discards from radio and tv stations"
Bob,
I think BU (up the street, where I went) must have gotten the rejects from Emerson...
David
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY™
A forum host of Creative COW's Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.
Re: "ammunition" for FCP in schools by ben on Oct 31, 2007 at 5:57:38 pm
everyone from emerson is a reject, i know that sounds harsh. i've had to fire/let go every student from there i have had in the past 5 years. I wouldn't trust that program to teach them how to use itunes!
Re: "ammunition" for FCP in schools by bob Flood on Oct 31, 2007 at 6:48:01 pm
ben
thats too bad.
even thougth the gear was awful, a lot of people from my class and later went on to do great things.
I think that someone finally gave them some money, and they bought a whole bunch of good gear (one purchase was something like 50 media 100's). Maybe that was the death knell? good gear and the kids got lazy!
sooo we should all send our old gear to emerson, so as to improve the quality of students that comes from there!! huh? waddya say???
Re: "ammunition" for FCP in schools by ben on Oct 31, 2007 at 7:43:33 pm
I think i'll send my gear to iran. I bet a few 18 year olds, some film gear could make a hell of a film. what could these american kids do, make a movie about going to hot topic and eating hamburgers at the mall?
lol
i cant stand emerson. I went to VFS (www.vfs.com), seemed like it had a lot less BS associated with it.
Re: "ammunition" for FCP in schools by A.Zander on Oct 31, 2007 at 8:38:01 pm
a lot has been said about experience, i'm in a good position to help you with info. Not only do I help run a FULL final cut lab (actually 3) with 90+ seats, as well as about 8 specialized rooms, for editing, I'm also a student at the place these labs are run. We have been struggling with avid about getting licensing, system support and enough seats to be useful with media composer. It's strange, We went from having a base volume license with apple to a FULL upgrade support license in under 15 minutes on the phone with our rep from apple. I spent twice that three times in a row waiting for some one to pick up from avid.
We can give you numbers, we can give you data and facts and 1/3 this, 2/3 that 800,000 here 1,000,000 there. And yes, it's very impressive as FCP is very easy to use and integrate into multi tasking machines that are for general student population not just students in 2 classes a day. But what really matters to me, is when the shit (excuse the language) hits the fan, and computers stop working, or a new version come out. How long, and how much is it going to take to get avid up to the current level. With my experience dealing with the 'educational reps' from both companies, as well as a dozen other top companies in our field. Apple is up there as the best. The only other companies that have ever been so quick to help are promax and newteck.
if you want to contact me for more feel free to do so.
