workflow riddle: 24p to 29.97 to 24 p
by Byrd Mcdonald
on
Sep 24, 2007 at 12:04:36 am
THE BACKGROUND
Shot a feature in 720p 24n on HVX-200.
While show is a mix of formats, our primary codec is the DVC Pro HD 720p 24 codec that we shot in natively.
We are finishing the film, out of money (of course) and are in Portland where HD color correction still hasn't found it's way.
THE NEED
I need to color correct the first 10 minutes of my show, as it is this section where the biggest problems lie. As I mentioned above, we are still figuring out our best cc options from a financial POV, but I'm able to pay for 2 hours on our local DaVinci system, which is somewhat legacy, only capable of SD color correction.
In essence, I need to take my first 10 minute reel from the land of HD to the land of SD, lay it to Digi-Beta, have that color corrected, and then bring it back into FCP, marry to the rest of the show, and encode a DVD screener for a certain film festival whose deadline looms.
THE QUESTION OF DOWNCONVERSION
So, what do I do? I can, of course, drop the hd timeline into an uncompressed SD timeline. But the results are mud to my eyes. Also, the cadence of the pull down looks off to me eyes. Or I can take the timeline to Compressor. Better looking results, but still a bit muddy.
Or, maybe I can transcode into a uncompressed SD timeline at 24p, and let my AJA I/O add the pull down when I'm laying to tape? But I tried this and the results, when I capture it back, are strange frames where I'm getting 2 fileds from different shots. So, from a field order perspective, this isn't working so well.
Should I depend on the AJA I/O to add pull down correctly?
And, when I get this tape back, since the color correction house is going to lay their work back to a digi-beta, is there a way I can capture that tape and extract the frames?
COBBLED TOGETHER WORK FLOWS
I imagine there are several people like myself who are trying to put together make-shift workflows until the world steps up to HD. I have this need for CC on some critical parts of my show. but, unless I take advantage of the local post house and their very fair indie rates, I'm stuck trying to make this work.
To recap, my questions are
1) What is the best way for me to output to digi-beta an sd timeline that originated in DVC ProHD 720p 24n timeline? Transcoding through compressor? Re-mastering an SD timeline of the same footage and laying that to tape?
2) When I bring this 10 minutes back into my machine, what is the best way to make that footage place nice with the other 70 minutes of the feature, which are, again, DVC PRO HD 720p 24n??
3) Is the big missing component for me a Kona card or other such thing that would downconvert via hardware in real time?
Re: workflow riddle: 24p to 29.97 to 24 p by Shane Ross on Sep 24, 2007 at 12:11:47 am
Avoid this headache...it really isn't worth the time and effort. And a DaVinci is MORE than capable of color correcting HD. Is it the facility that isn't HD ready?
No no...find a post facility that is FCP friendly and a colorist that uses Color or Final Touch...stay HD. Or find a way to output to DVCPRO HD, and find a place that can color correct HD.
Going from HD to SD for color correction, then back into FCP as SD to mix with HD...that is a mess!
Re: workflow riddle: 24p to 29.97 to 24 p by David Roth Weiss on Sep 24, 2007 at 2:20:23 am
I completely agree with Shane. I like DaVinci tape to tape as much as anyone, but you should save your dough and your sanity. Its far better to show mediocre HD than to go down the conversion road you're headed for. At this stage of you could even just find someone who really knows the FCP 3-way Color Corrector who should be able to do a pretty nice job for you.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
Re: workflow riddle: 24p to 29.97 to 24 p by Sean ONeil on Sep 24, 2007 at 2:54:43 am
[Byrd Mcdonald]"1) What is the best way for me to output to digi-beta an sd timeline that originated in DVC ProHD 720p 24n timeline? Transcoding through compressor? Re-mastering an SD timeline of the same footage and laying that to tape?
2) When I bring this 10 minutes back into my machine, what is the best way to make that footage place nice with the other 70 minutes of the feature, which are, again, DVC PRO HD 720p 24n??
3) Is the big missing component for me a Kona card or other such thing that would downconvert via hardware in real time?"
I agree with Shane and David. But I'll answer your questions. Hardware downconversion is where it's at. So yeah, the Kona card is what you are missing. It's the best option without a doubt.
If you have FCP5 you can drop the
After Effects absolutely provides the best scaling quality for software. But does it automatically convert the color space (709 to 601)? I don't think it assumes these things for you.
Final Cut 6 and Compressor are loaded design mistakes in regards to video conversion. And the scaling within FCP is not very good (turning on "Best" in the sequence settings helps, but it's still not great).
Re: workflow riddle: 24p to 29.97 to 24 p by Sean ONeil on Sep 24, 2007 at 2:56:21 am
Little typo there, sorry about that. What I meant to say was with FCP5 or FCP6 you can drop HD in an SD timeline and it will usually do the proper conversion - but there are problems.
Re: workflow riddle: 24p to 29.97 to 24 p by Arniepix on Sep 24, 2007 at 11:48:22 am
Portland, OR; or Portland, ME?
If the 1st, then look to Vancouver, Seattle or San Francisco. If the 2nd, look to Boston or New York.
I personally think it is pointless to CC only the 1st 10 minutes of your film. It will only make any flaws in the rest of the film seem more obvious. If you want to CC, CC the whole thing.
I also think it's waste of money to down convert and CC in SD. If you ever want to do anything in HD later, then you'll have to go back to square 1 & re-do any CC you've already done.
I won't even touch the idea of mixing a downconverted, CC'd beginning with a HD, un-CC'd rest of the film. That's just a bad idea.
If this film has any importance to you at all, it should be important enough to do this right.
Arnie
Now in post: Peristroika, a film by Slava Tsukerman
Re: workflow riddle: 24p to 29.97 to 24 p by Byrd Mcdonald on Sep 24, 2007 at 2:47:49 pm
Thanks all for the input. I agree, it's a mess of a workflow, and I think I see the light. It's just really difficult in Oregon right not for HD color correction. Sure, I have Color, but no time to learn it for this output, and I'm seriously respectful of the role a colorist plays in the affair.
