Advice on major purchase desperately needed - edit to archive
by walnut crunch
on
May 21, 2007 at 12:42:01 am
I've been planning to outfit my production group with a bunch of computers running Adobe Production software and one matrox axio system to handle mxf's from a P2 camera. The thought was we could all pass files back and forth while the axio did the lionshare of the work.
The Adobe stuff isn't working quite as planned and I still haven't purchased the axio so I'm not too far along to stop the train.
We have over 30 high def screens and we feed them with educational content. A windows box drives each screen so we use Windows Media as our final format in HD.
The footage we create has archive value so the current plan is to just jam it all on a file server tied into our IS infrastucture. IS really wants us to stay windows. And that has flavoured my decision so far.
I'm worried we're going out on a limb a bit with the Axio, with FCP looking well anchored. I've cut on Avid, Axio, and FCP, so I don't really care, I just want the best software to fit our uses.
We have an editor and a motion graphics person so we need there to be a smooth workflow between them. They don't need to work on the same stuff at the same time, they just need to be able to do a handoff. I'd like the editor to have a proper HDTV monitor but I don't know what gear that works well for FCP for that. Motion Graphics will mostly still happen with AfterEffects.
We're P2 and HDV based, so we don't need an analogue capture card.
The Final Cut Server looks like a missing piece for us as far as archiving goes. I guess that means an xserve and some kind of disk array. Does it have to be the Apple Raid? Can I tie the xserve into a windows based system?
Will ProRes 422 work with AE? Will it be a good codec to archive in? Has anyone actually worked with Final Cut Server? Would it make sense to transcode everything to ProRes, and use that as our main format?
Tons of questions I know, but I'm on the verge of spending a lot of money and I want to make sure we're doing the right thing.
Axio works, the Adobe system mostly works but it has its share of problems. I'm just nervous about trading one set of problems for another.
Anyone have any real practical advice for any of the questions?
Re: Advice on major purchase desperately needed - edit to archive by Shane Ross on May 21, 2007 at 3:25:07 am
[David Roth Weiss]"What does qualify as a good archiving format?"
The tapes that the footage was shot on. Or, if you must have all of this footage on your system, than as the same codec it was shot with, if you want it at full quality. OR, if you do offline/online cutting, keeping all the files at offline RT, and keeping the tapes when you recapture during the online phase.
Or, if you shoot P2, archive the original MXF files.
I don't know of a codec to transcode footage into for "archiving" purposes. I don't know of anyone who does this. They keep the tapes, they keep the offline RT files...sometimes...or the full res files...sometimes.
Re: Advice on major purchase desperately needed - edit to archive by Shane Ross on May 21, 2007 at 3:55:14 am
Just know that, based on the statement that ProRes 422 has the same storage requirements of 10-bit UC SD, then you are looking at about 82GB for one hour of footage. Not very small...better than 478GB...but still not small.
Re: Advice on major purchase desperately needed - edit to archive by walnut crunch on May 21, 2007 at 2:56:51 pm
I guess what i was thinking is that rendering a final out to DVCPRO HD wouldn't be the best bet and 8bit Uncompressed HD is massive, so I'd need something else to render out to. Using ProRes422 might be the key. Then our archived masters would be in ProRes and have good quality and not overly punishing file size.
I'm just trying to think what the equipment needs for monitoring P2 on FCP, and the workflow from FCP, to AE, to windows Media would be and if it would be a smoother run than going the Axio/Adobe Software route.
Re: Advice on major purchase desperately needed - edit to archive by gary adcock on May 21, 2007 at 3:09:43 pm
[walnut crunch]"I'm just trying to think what the equipment needs for monitoring P2 on FCP, and the workflow from FCP, to AE, to windows Media would be and if it would be a smoother run than going the Axio/Adobe Software route."
rather than Axio, why not look at the Xena solution for Premier? it has many more features than axio with the other apps
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Re: Advice on major purchase desperately needed - edit to archive by Oliver Peters on May 21, 2007 at 1:01:17 am
[walnut crunch]"The Final Cut Server looks like a missing piece for us as far as archiving goes. I guess that means an xserve and some kind of disk array. Does it have to be the Apple Raid? Can I tie the xserve into a windows based system?"
AFAIK, FC Server is just software that can run hosted on any Mac computer. It could, for instance, be used to index just the files on a single computer with local drives. In a shared/networked environment, one computer is going to have to act as the host, but this wouldn't necessarily need to be a beefy server. On the other hand, FC Server isn't shipping yet, so requirements probably aren't in stone.
I'm not sure how it handles the archiving for offline/nearline storage. FC Server is mainly an asset management tool designed to give producers and editors media search capabilities. It generates proxies to facilite search and review functions. I'm not sure if it would work with your Axios. There are hooks into FCP6 so that media, which is captured to specific watch folders, is catalogued and proxies are generated. Although FC Server is supposed to track about 100 file types (that may include your Axio media) it probably can't look into the metadata generated by Premiere Pro.
Sincerely,
Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
www.oliverpeters.com
Re: Advice on major purchase desperately needed - edit to archive by walnut crunch on May 21, 2007 at 2:53:28 pm
The thing is I haven't bought the Axio yet. It's still pending. One of my big problems is how the hell do I track all our projects and assorted media files.
It's stuff we'll go back to again and again. I was just going to create a simple kind of cue sheet system pending the next batch of big bucks that would let us buy media management software.
If I have reason I can still switch us from the PC world to the Mac world and FCP.
Being able to use Final Cut Server, and it's various search and proxy functions would go a long way to pushing me that route.
Apple sort of forgot me in this process, one of their engineers was supposed to contact me and didn't, whereas the Matrox folks were more involved.
I'm just getting worried about what I'm buying into. I get one big shot to buy, and I'm staking a lot on whatever I buy being the system to stick with. No second chances.
Re: Advice on major purchase desperately needed - edit to archive by Arniepix on May 21, 2007 at 10:29:40 pm
Just stay away from anything that might be proprietary to the hardware that it runs on. Media 100, Avid, and others have all had at least some products with codecs tied to their hardware. Anyone who's migrated from one of these platforms to another will tell you that it was difficult to move any archived material, like graphics or stock footage, that was native to the old hardware.
If you want to archive online, use a codec that's not tied to any one platform, like animation, targa, photo JPEG, Sheer, image sequences, etc.
Arnie
Now in post: Peristroika, a film by Slava Tsukerman
Re: Advice on major purchase desperately needed - edit to archive by braker on May 22, 2007 at 6:41:13 pm
> If you want to archive online, use a codec that's not tied to any one platform, like animation, targa, photo JPEG, Sheer, image sequences, etc.
I'm interested in this too... for the closes to true archival file storage I can get to (Don't worry, we're archiving on tape as well).
My question: which of these formats reliably hangs onto audio tracks, sync, and especially timecode, and is also expected to be generally and easily readable in 10-20 years?
