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FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?

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declouxFCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 16, 2007 at 10:27:41 pm

I am a new Apple customer, having recently invested $8,000 into a brand new MACpro system to edit video.

I spent 3 months researching products, bought the Mac and FCP Studio in late January, and now -- as I start my first real FCP project -- in order to have the new "current" version, Apple Support has told me that it will cost me $499 more (that's 'more' as in EXTRA).
This is an excessive price to pay for the upgrade, given the timeframe. This would total to about $1,800 within 3 months of my purchase of FCS-HD.

Given this situation, I now doubt whether Version 5.x (FCPstudio1) will be properly patched and maintained by Apple.

I am now stuck with this editing system, and maybe it will serve my needs; but UNLESS I can get this upgrade for a lot less, APPLE will never get my recommendation as being a good company -- and in the future I WILL avoid Apple products.

Apple should reconsider a "sliding" upgrade cost for recent purchasers.

This is not whining. This is a very justifiable complaint:
Apple's previous behavior had given me confidence that an upgrade done within 3 months (or even longer) would not be exorbitant.

dg

Thanks to Creative COW for allowing me to express my disappointment.
If this material belongs somewhere else, please advise.



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David Roth WeissRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 16, 2007 at 10:40:51 pm

Sorry, your argument holds no water. Any knowledgeable person could have, should have, told you that a new version was going to be released at NAB in April. And, even at $500 additional its still a great deal.


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Sean LanderRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 16, 2007 at 10:42:36 pm

I think $499 is very reasonable. Compare it to the Adobe CS3 upgrade or imagine you've bought Avid then you really would be up for some serious cash.


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gary adcockRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 16, 2007 at 10:45:26 pm

[decloux] "This is an excessive price to pay for the upgrade, given the timeframe. This would total to about $1,800 within 3 months of my purchase of FCS-HD."

there is nothing that says you have to upgrade, and many posts here on the cow should have given you the idea to wait until after NAB. Since the software is not released yet you are jumping the gun about an upgrade.

IF you are an FCP user you have now learned what many of us know- wait til after NAB.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows


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Bob RobertsRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 16, 2007 at 10:57:37 pm

If he gets the upgrade with Color, isn't he actually saving $24,500?


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David SmithRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 16, 2007 at 10:52:28 pm

I understand your frustration. A couple of thoughts:

If you purchased your present system I assume it will do what you need to be done. I see posts here with people still asking questions about FCP 3, 4, etc. which they are still running. It does what they need to get done. So while there are great new features in V.6, there's no reason you have to go out and buy it right away.

I used to edit on a Media 100. The annual upgrade/support fee was, if I recall, about 1400 bucks at the time. If you didn't pay up you got no support, no upgrades. Every year!

I've owned FCP 5 since August 05. I've gotten what, half a dozen upgrades since, all free except for about $50 bucks for the 5.1 crossgrade. I have no problem with paying 499 for this extensive update.

That being said, a sliding scale based on recent purchases like you suggest would certainly keep folks in your position happier. That would have been nice when they came out with faster, sharper screen powerbooks for less money about six weeks after I bought mine!

Regards,
David


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George LochRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 16, 2007 at 10:54:51 pm

How much are you charging your clients? If it takes you very long to make up $500 you may consider changing your rates or choosing a different area of business.

-gl


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BorjisRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 16, 2007 at 11:03:07 pm


$ 499 is an incredible price for the upgrade.

Anyone who buys Apple hardware or software anywhere near to a release is going to be upset.

I've seen it time and again.

The lesson learned is, never buy before NAB with apple very likely doing big releases with hardware or software.

and like the other poster said, be glad you didn't buy an avid, your upgrade would be thousands more.




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gineric1Re: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 16, 2007 at 11:06:10 pm

Does this help justify the $500. With the upgrade to 6 you get software originally priced at $25,000. It is called Color.



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David M.Re: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 16, 2007 at 11:29:12 pm

Don't upgrade. FCP5.1 is extremely stable sans the Media Manager. We just sold a movie to Think Film that we shot on 35mm and edited and delivered to them on D5 - all completely in FCP 5. It wasn't even on an intel Mac - perish the thought!!!

Until the Meida Manager is rock solid and can take EVERYTHING IN THE TIMELINE (INCLUDING ALL NON TIMECODED MATERIAL LIKE MUSIC, ADR & CG EFFECTS) and create a proper fully functional media managed file that works - then the upgrade is for the mixed media in a timeline and COLOR program only. Everything else seems marginal and trite. I won't upgrade until I have a good reason to. And a media manager that suits my needs is a big deal.

-DM

G5 Dual 2.5Ghz
OSX4 FCP5
Lots of Ram - Lots of cables - Lots of bills...


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RoccoRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 16, 2007 at 11:28:51 pm

It's a pretty sweet deal, I think. $499 + tax and you get Motion that does "3D" and a brand new app called Color (which used to cost a LOT with those specs) as well as all the other FCP things.

You can wow new clients and learn new skills with all this. You can put it all on your reel and sell yourself with better skills. All of that fo $500!

It's a great deal. Good for Apple, they could have charged $999 for all that.


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Steve ConnorRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 16, 2007 at 11:34:33 pm

As others have said - it's very simple don't upgrade and it won't cost you a penny. FCP as it stands works fine and you can spend a year or two making money with it. Then perhaps you might budget enough for the paltry $500 it will cost you to upgrade.

Personally, as it stands, if Apple hadn't offered any upgrade path at all, I'd STILL buy the whole suite again just to get those features and I'd make the money back in the first month!


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Logan KelseyRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 16, 2007 at 11:51:16 pm

My first NLE was a Quadra 950 and a Video Vision Studio board. Over the years I bought Avid and Media 100's. I won't mention how much I paid for a 32gig high speed disk-array one year (Yikes!).

Like you, I also bought an additional FCP Studio license in January. But I think $500 for this upgrade, with the new Color application, is a steal. If you have to, just purchase the upgrade after you recoup some of your investment. It's just part of the upgrade cycle -- don't blast Apple. Reality check. The entry point for post-production has plummeted over the years.

Plus, the system you are "stuck with" rocks! Make money, learn to tell stories, create art and be inspired.

;>


All the best,
Logan

Vertical Online
http://www.verticalonline.com


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rcPicsRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 16, 2007 at 11:34:53 pm

>>Apple should reconsider a "sliding" upgrade cost for recent purchasers.

This is not whining. This is a very justifiable complaint:
Apple's previous behavior had given me confidence that an upgrade done within 3 months (or even longer) would not be exorbitant.

dg

Thanks to Creative COW for allowing me to express my disappointment.
If this material belongs somewhere else, please advise.<<

If they did implement a grace perios for discounted upgrades, then those who missed the cutoff date by a minute would be equally as miffed and claim that Aple was working on the updates way before th earliest posted date of eligibility...and it would be never ending. Maybe look at it as 'cost of upgrade' vs. 'cost of time/work lost waiting for the new version'.


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Steve WargoRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 16, 2007 at 11:40:05 pm

I feel bad for the newbies who think that they can get into a professional editing machine for such a low price. 10 years ago, we paid $35,000 and more for a Discreet Edit* system with real time 3D and a whopping 36Gb of SCSI storage. Now, you can buy a top level FCP with Terabytes of storage and fast processors for a lousy 10 grand or so. Ask the Avid guys what they've been paying for their systems all these years and then quit whining. And please, don't tell us you're not whining.

You probably drive a Yugo, eat at MacDonald's and see movies at the dollar theater.

We have 5 seats of FCP, two with X-Serve raids. Get serious. This is a BUSINESS, not a hobby.

Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona

It's a dry heat!


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David BattistellaRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 17, 2007 at 12:08:09 am



If they would have told me that the upgrade was going to be 499 I would have bought it just based on how much value Apple gives it's customers based on previous "pay for" upgrades.

How many times do you think you'll be using software upgrade for FREE in the coming year. A piece of what you are paying for is the constant upgrade and improvement.

This has to be one of the most riiculous threads I have read in a long time. I have to respond just because I can not believe that any informed person would think that this is a rip off.

George Loch, you have won this thread with the most accurate, succinct and hilarious posts I have read in years!

Rock on FCP!

David

Peace and Love :)


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BorjisRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 17, 2007 at 5:37:55 am

[Steve Wargo] "feel bad for the newbies who think that they can get into a professional editing machine for such a low price. 10 years ago, we paid $35,000 and more for a Discreet Edit* system with real time 3D and a whopping 36Gb of SCSI storage."

Indeed Steve.

We paid $ 250,000 for a discreet smoke* when it came out.


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gary adcockRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 17, 2007 at 1:33:32 pm

[Borjis] " [Steve Wargo] "feel bad for the newbies who think that they can get into a professional editing machine for such a low price. 10 years ago, we paid $35,000 and more for a Discreet Edit* system with real time 3D and a whopping 36Gb of SCSI storage."

We paid $ 250,000 for a discreet smoke* when it came out."



I am with you Boris, my first HD suite in 2001 had a $ 24K 1st gen HD Only Kona card and with storage totaled over $700,000.00

Now, 6 years later I have a portable HD suite with 15x the storage, 10x faster computer, a location monitor that weighs 1/10 of a CRT, and I can do anything and everything from DV to 2k for around $35,000.

The IoHD from AJA, just dropped my location HD suite to less than $12K with Sata Storage and a laptop and a 17" monitor and it does bizillions more things than I ever imagined that I would need.



gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows


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adkimeryRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 17, 2007 at 12:07:03 am

If you are "stuck" w/the editing that "maybe" will serve your needs why did you even buy it? How did your needs dramatically change since Apple announced the new software? And how did you research the product for 3 months and not discover a major upgrade was most likely coming at NAB 07?

IMO the upgrade price is inexpensive and I only use my personal FCP machine for occasional, no/lo budget side projects.


-A


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Michael De LazzerRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 17, 2007 at 12:15:57 am

$500 bucks is nothing in post-production dollars. Every year I have to budget for software upgrades. It's just the cost of doing business. Some years I skip certain applications because I haven't been use them as frequently.

FCP 5.1 is a fine editing system. It will do what you need to do. If you think the shiny new hammer will make your script, vision, words, ideas, and concept any better, rethink what software actually does: It's a tool, a means to an end.

If you need extreme color grading capabilities, consider purchasing a plug-in like Synthetic Aperture's Color Finesse. It will do a lot of what Color covers. I own it. It's my basic color correction tool I use on FCP projects. It will cost you $575 dollars. It doesn't integrate as well as Color, and lacks some capability, but until this upgrade, it's how I did critical correction in Final Cut. But the upgrade price for Apple is only $500 dollars, so you might as well get the upgrade.

Now will someone call Synthetic Aperature and tell them to give my my $575 dollars back? (g)



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NICK BRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 17, 2007 at 12:42:23 am

decloux

Since you bought your FCP 5 system for $8000 in late January my system has earnt me over$20,000 in the same time period so if you cannot afford $500 upgrade you perhaps do not need it for now.



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rene hazekampRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 17, 2007 at 2:05:53 am

gee

give the man some slack, maybe he's right and it's a lot of money for him. There are countries where 500 bucks is a years income, so.
Anyway I will upgrade even if it will cost me 500 euro , which will equal 1500 dollars by then in july,(thats what you get when you're dealing with weak currencies)

rene hazekamp

http://www.renehazekamp.com



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macfreekRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 17, 2007 at 3:03:16 am

And if your really smart, call Apple Business sales and get it for 449 :-D




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rcPicsRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 17, 2007 at 3:07:08 am

>>give the man some slack, maybe he's right and it's a lot of money for him. There are countries where 500 bucks is a years income, so.<<

And they're not spending everything they have on an editing system, only to be caught off guard when upgrades come out.

I do sympathize in that no-one wants to just htrow away even a penny. But it's wrong to blame Apple when they are proceeding in a way that has worked fine for the vast majority of people who know and use the system, amny of whom don't have displosable income. They offer their software for an amazing price, but it's up to the user, like with many other things, to do their research and stay on top of coming changes and the state of development of what they are making their living with....and come up with the right plan that suits them best. If anything, maybe Apple makes all this stuff too accessible, and it misleads less-experienced folks into thinking that they can be up and running at the same pace and level as people who have been doing this for many years...because they bought the same tools. We all know there's a lot more to it than that. So you can go out and get the latest-greatest shoes and sports equipment, but you can't blame the league if you don't know the rules of the game. I just think it's wrong to point the finger at Apple about this, when most others who've spent as much and still have to spend just as much aren't...and it's not because they're loaded.



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Winston A. CelyRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 17, 2007 at 3:29:31 am

Am I the only one that feels this post is a fishing trip?


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Bret WilliamsRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 17, 2007 at 3:42:29 am

[decloux] "This is not whining. This is a very justifiable complaint:
Apple's previous behavior had given me confidence that an upgrade done within 3 months (or even longer) would not be exorbitant. "


It is whining. It is not justifiable. For the longest time you could expect a major upgrade every 12 months. Once it was even less! If FCP served your needs 4 months ago, why has that changed? Nobody is forcing you to purchase anything. Hey, I just bought a Mac Pro in January and now they have an octo and now my computer costs less, blah blah blah.

Here's a thought. If it's about costs, don't but FCP6 until you need it. Which is what you should have done with FCP5. Perhaps youi'll never need 6. I mean, are you a Motion expert already after 4 months? Have you already outgrown the tools in Soundtrack?

If you buy a refrigerator at Home Depot and 3 months later they come out with a better model for less money, do you really expect to be able to take yours back or be reimbursed or something?

People's entitlement mindset just blows me away.


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declouxRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 17, 2007 at 4:36:19 am


It looks as if my earlier reply is still embargoed (or the cookies didn't stick)
If this becomes a duplicate, apologies.
I suppose I was looking for someone else here to say "yes -there should be a recent purchase discount!"
--------
Perhaps I made a mistake in complaining to a "choir" of wealthy enthusiasts.
Perhaps I should have removed myself from the keyboard after
phoning apple. I'd begun to get very frustrated, for sure:
I did express a brief but reasonably polite exasperation to sales staff,
and I posted HERE -- not to applesucks.com nor to CNET. I was/am
very unhappy about the whiplash, and I stand by everything I said.

There were some good comments here. Thanks for those.
I will not take the time to sort out all of the comments I feel are bogus.

--Here's a few points in defense of the point: ---

The crossgrade experience gave a false expectation of what woud happen to me.

A software upgrade, with only modest packaging, costs a few dollars.
Since $499 represents about 6% of the total system price (to-date),
perhaps I shouldn't feel so bad, but it still feels like:
I paid X. Then it was of course instantly worth Y (because it's unwrapped software).
Now, a few weeks later it is Y minus$499. I still feel gipped:
I wanted a stable late-model FCP, (not necessarily the New Hotness with *$24k COLOR*)
now it feels like Old and Busted, unless I cough up $499. Total of $1800.
[Actually $1700 (B&H).]

UNIVERSAL came out only last year. When I bought in January,
I had barely upgraded to (then current) 5.12 when the buggy 5.13 came out,
and then one week later the more stable 5.14 (maybe better than 5.12 -- jury is still out?)
Now FCP *VERSION* jumps from version 5.1x to 6.
Industry Standard is an oxymoron in software,
but there was never a 5.2, not even a 5.15.
I have seen the way bastard-stepchild software can get treated by publishers
(limited support/patches/resources, etc)
and my confidence in this product (v5x) is inevitably reduced by this situation.

My sense from three of months of reading this forum was "wait for MacWorld,"
which I did -- not "wait for NAB." Perhaps I could've read closer.
Perhaps I should've read every COW post for 6 months instead of only three.

To the comments attacking me personally about money and business,
no comments, except:
This is a very long-term project involving everything from old betaSP,
cruddy Hi8, DV ... travel, accomodations ... it goes back 14 years.
And there is no Yugo; but I did spend 9 months in the yugo war-zones, on my
own nickel. Long ago I could have had a nice house for the money I've spent on this.
Perhaps you were only naturally responding to the anger I expressed. If so, fair enough.
If NOT, perhaps you're spending too much time in this forum. Get out. Socialize.
Or go back and bilk some hi-dollar clients!
(Go ahead, call me a hobbyist: maybe it will help you "win.")

OK -I'll try and tone down my Apple expectations and be happy --
or, at least Think Differently -- maybe even learn to love Big Brother.

Congratulations to whomever of you does "win" this thread.

Thanks to those who expressed sympathy and/or genuine advice.








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rcPicsRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 17, 2007 at 8:23:05 am

The only question I have is how much time/money would you have lost waiting the month to get full FCS2 package, compared to the $499 upgrade? Could you have afforded to wait until may to get started? If so, then I do sympathise with your situation...money is money. But if you had to get started now, then this was the only way to do it, it's how it's always been, and by no means will your version be obsolete any time soon...which IS a generous effort on Apple's part. Yes, $499 is $499, but if you compare that to the capabilities you are getting with that, it really is like pennies on the dollar for the next version compared to what AVID offers (or can't offer)....an insanely low price per performance ratio, and major updates for long-existing apps have always cost money, even for people who bought the old version a week before the release of the next. They are not gipping you, but I do think it's unfair to think that they should've extended an extra courtesy for your case and others like it, when they are already bending over backwards to make it all so accessible to begin with. You got unlucky with timing, happens to all of us...but the sting really isn't that bad compared to if you were to seek these capabilities elsewhere, even if you were right on time.



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walter biscardiRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 17, 2007 at 12:00:29 pm

[decloux] "
Perhaps I made a mistake in complaining to a "choir" of wealthy enthusiasts."


Wealthy enthusiasts? No, we're just working with our systems and earning money so we don't see $500 as a problem to receive everything that Apple has put into the Studio 2 package.

[decloux] "My sense from three of months of reading this forum was "wait for MacWorld,"
which I did -- not "wait for NAB." Perhaps I could've read closer.
Perhaps I should've read every COW post for 6 months instead of only three."


For computers yes, for Final Cut Studio, NAB is the release time. That's been the case for the past three years.


[decloux] "Congratulations to whomever of you does "win" this thread.

Thanks to those who expressed sympathy and/or genuine advice."


There is nothing to win. You asked what we thought and the Cow responded. I personally feel $500 is a heckuva good price for the upgrade and there's really nothing to complain about.



Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network's "Good Eats"
HD Editorial for "Assignment Earth"

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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frankpledgeRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 17, 2007 at 12:44:46 pm

nobody attacked you. it's just that nobody agreed with you per se.

meanwhile, everyone here is "bilking" their client and in bed with 'big brother'. nice. i'm sure that comes from a place of experience.

you don't need fcp 6/fcs2. your concept of your software value is flawed. it is worth exactly what you bought it for as it will do exactly what you bought it for.

look. filmaking is expensive. to a vast majority of the users on this forum it is a steal compared to years past. the real truth is that FCP5 is cheap, stable and incredible. buggy? not sure what you mean.

you lose nothing. nothing. just edit you doc. you absolutley do not need to upgrade whatsoever. I'm not attacking you in any way, but i would assume you would not know how to make the most out of the major upgrade features anyway. they are complex finishing tools.

if you are, however, proficient in 'online' color correction and audio mixing and 3d graphics in motion, then upgrade when you are done with your doc and ready for the polish.

if that still feels expensive, price out what it would cost to farm that part out.


fp


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David Roth WeissRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 17, 2007 at 1:03:08 pm

[decloux] "The crossgrade experience gave a false expectation of what woud happen to me."

"Just when I figured out the meaning of life, they changed it" ~ George Carlin


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JeremyGRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 17, 2007 at 1:07:43 pm

[decloux] "This is a very long-term project involving everything from old betaSP,
cruddy Hi8, DV "


Hmm, did you budget for a capture card?



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adkimeryRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 17, 2007 at 3:49:43 pm

decloux,

I still don't understand how your hardware/software purchased in Jan is now "crap" just because faster computers and a new version of Final Cut were released? If it was good enough in Jan why isn't it good enough now?

Also, if it makes you feel better the first update to the new software probably won't happen for 2-3 months after it starts shipping and I wouldn't recommend upgrading until then. So you paid in Jan, and then a "safe" version of Final Cut is out around July, so now the difference is 6 months not 3 months. I know that may sound odd but that's how I look at new software and 1st gen hardware. I won't consider buying it until the first round of updates goes by.


-A


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walter biscardiRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 17, 2007 at 4:45:10 am

[decloux] "This is not whining. This is a very justifiable complaint:
Apple's previous behavior had given me confidence that an upgrade done within 3 months (or even longer) would not be exorbitant."


Nope, none whatsoever. I paid $5,000 last year for Final Touch HD (now Color) and other folks paid $25,000 for Final Touch 2K (now Color) and that product is completely free with the new Studio.

You're expecting us to be concerned about you having to spend $499 to upgrade to the new FCS 2? Nope, what you're getting for that $500 far exceeds what you're paying in cash.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network's "Good Eats"
HD Editorial for "Assignment Earth"

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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Richard MartzRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 17, 2007 at 4:56:23 am

Yep...You're whining alright. When my kids do that I just tell them what it was like when we had to walk to school 10 miles in the snow...barefooted. For you I'll just say that I grew up during the days of linear editing and when we finally got our first AVID it cost $105K and crashed frequently. It also had almost no storage. Those were the days of steam powered computers!

Anyway I'm sure you wish you hadn't asked for an opinion by now!

Richard Martz
MagicMartz Media

Final Cut Pro HD
Kona LH
After Effects
PhotoShop
Illustrator
Lots of other Fun Stuff!


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Steven GonzalesRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 17, 2007 at 5:56:44 am

Since you're a new Apple customer, don't worry about the upgrade. There's plenty to learn about version 5 of FCP Studio.

By the time you master the program, perhaps version 7 will be out, and then you can spend toward that upgrade with the $500 savings.

It's the creative spirit using a tool they understand that does high quality work.

Shakespeare didn't have a word processor, or even a typewriter. Although I'll bet he was real mad when a new quill came out just after he bought the old version.


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David SmithRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 17, 2007 at 12:32:39 pm

I have to agree with Rene here. So the guy got upset and vented a little, he didn't attack anybody here, he just asked how others reacted to the upgrade price. Why are people launching personal attacks in response?

This is usually a very helpful and compassionate community. I enjoy that. Perhaps everyone is on edge right now. I know that yesterday's news has me reeling. My daughter attends college in Virginia. Please, let's get back to treating each other with the usual CCOW respect and insight. That second C stands for COMMUNITY.

David


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James SullivanRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 17, 2007 at 3:18:08 pm

I think we are missing one minor thing. Apple has been improving their product every year. Avid although nice and functional and proven in the most time demanding schedules has done what? We now have a freaking Da Vinci in a laptop...(almost)

How cool is that?

James Sullivan


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Richard MartzRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 17, 2007 at 8:10:18 pm

My thoughts exactly..Can't we all just get along? I'm voting that we should immediately sit down together, hold hands, and sing Coom bi yah. That and $499 will get you the upgrade.

Richard Martz
MagicMartz Media

Final Cut Pro HD
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After Effects
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Lots of other Fun Stuff!


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rcPicsRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 17, 2007 at 8:58:45 pm

I don't think it would have been so bad if it weren't for this line...

"I am now stuck with this editing system, and maybe it will serve my needs; but UNLESS I can get this upgrade for a lot less, APPLE will never get my recommendation as being a good company -- and in the future I WILL avoid Apple products."

Bit extreme, no? ;-)



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SimmieRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 17, 2007 at 5:24:53 pm

Sorry - I have to agree with those who point out that you DON'T HAVE TO UPGRADE!

We still run G4 workstations with Cinewave in our shop, and every single day they earn their keep. Damn fine machines.

-Simmie
2 G5 - Kona LH
3 G4s - Cinewave
1 xbox360, 1 PSP, 1 PS2 & a Gamecube
http://www.speak.co.uk


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Rob GardnerRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 17, 2007 at 7:09:32 pm

I bought 4 FCP packages three months ago because I had to set up four workstations to cut a series. I'm pretty annoyed like this guy is, but life goes on. The thing that saddens me is the amount of snottiness and smugness that comes out in this kind of thread. There is a lot of pettiness that serves no one. The entire value of a forum like this is to share information and to feel that you can honestly reveal ignorance without concern that you will be made to look like a fool. This is the prime covenant, as far as I'm concerned. Dragging out old war stories to show what a seasoned veteran you, or how much money you are making or whatever are is just self inflation and it helps no one. And I have noticed that it is almost always the true professional small timers who blow their horns the loudest. Why don't you give this guy a little respect for his opinion and move on.


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pxlmvrRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 17, 2007 at 9:23:23 pm

Definitely a fishing trip.

FWIW you sound like a pc user and there is difference between the pc experience and the Apple experience. First, Apple makes very good products with a long shelf life. They don't instantly become crap when Apple offers an upgrade. They are very good at providing support and free software updates. Second, even at $1800 that is literally a steal! Avid MC software only is $5000 with none of what Apple is offering. Three, as has been said, you don't have to upgrade. I've been using FCP 5 since it came out and it is very stable and will do almost anything required for editing.

"A software upgrade, with only modest packaging, costs a few dollars."

You are forgetting R&D, distributing, cost of business, etc. You don't sound like you know a lot about business or software publishing. I lot of people responded to your naivete.

"I wanted a stable late-model FCP, (not necessarily the New Hotness with *$24k COLOR*) now it feels like Old and Busted, unless I cough up $499."

Again, FCP 5 works great and is perfectly stable. In fact FCPS2 has more of a risk of being unstable being a new upgrade and all.

"I have seen the way bastard-stepchild software can get treated by publishers (limited support/patches/resources, etc) and my confidence in this product (v5x) is inevitably reduced by this situation."

Use of the term 'patches' and your assumption of 'publishers' indicates a pc background. Again, Apple operates differently. There are still people making money using v.3 and 4.

In my estimation this is a kid who likes PCs and wanted to rag on Apple.


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rcPicsRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 17, 2007 at 9:45:02 pm

I think that's going a bit too far, as well. He later explained his situation in more depth, and acknowledged that there was a tinge of his initial anger behind his post. I still don't agree with his stance. He felt misled and misinformed, while many of us feel that it's an unfortunate by-product of being new to all of this, and not quite understanding the extent to which Apple stands behind their products as they develope.



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JaymagsRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 18, 2007 at 12:41:07 pm

I have to say, I think that Apple have pulled a blinder here. Although the UK pricing of the upgrade really rankles (its


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MartenRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 18, 2007 at 10:37:32 pm

I'm not new here, but it has been a while since I've posted.

Whatever the case, I've had all the versions, bought all the upgrades and FCP5 is still the bomb! I think that $499.00 for an upgrade from FCS 1 to 2 is a steal.

I doubt that a new user to FCP5 needs the upgrade to 6 in the first place.

You guys may have been a little harsh, but this forum is still the best FCP forum on the internet.

I would have appreciated your candor. Sometimes the truth is hard to face.

Marten Benatar
Rio Media Services


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MartenRe: FCS upgrade cost -What does the COW think?
by on Apr 18, 2007 at 10:54:16 pm

I haven't posted here in quite a while, but here's my 2 cents

Whatever the case, I have bought all the upgrades up to 4.5 HD, and then upgraded to FCS 1. The money involved is still a hell of a bargain in respect to any other software available.

I would bet that FCS 1 will be enough of a learning curve to this first time user, and all that is need to complete his project. Hopefully he has a good capture card!

You guys may have been a little harsh, but I personally would rather hear the truth of the matter rather than any sympathy. CCOW is the best forum on the net.

You guys ROCK!!



Marten Benatar
Rio Media Services


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declouxRe: FCS upgrade cost - DeCloux's Apology
by on Apr 19, 2007 at 5:59:37 am

DeCloux's Apology

Because my followup was inadequate, I will revise.
I regret that I clouded what I felt was important debate with my selfish stab.
I retract paragraph #4 with an apology to the C.O.W. community and it's moderators.
("I am now stuck with this editing system...." etc.)
I think the rest might've been useful; but as it was, I just smudged the thread and
reduced its usefulness.
(And no, I haven't received -- as of this writing -- any communications from staff
or any lawyers... yet)
Anyway, I earned a few harsh words.

Consider this also a white flag and a Limited Surrender on the subject of the value of FCS2.

It was not whining, it was Screaming. Not a plant of any kind. Software purchase is and
has always been a crapshoot, and sometimes you "read 'em and weep." End of that story.

Crow is a delicacy, not so bad, but it's an acquired taste. I really try NOT to prepare it
very often: I'm actually rather mild, and this really was a case of: "Step away from the
keyboard, and let it sink in, flow through ...."

Perhaps it was also that I was a little on edge. We'd also just bought a car (NOT a yugo)
at a higher-than-planned price, and it was Tax Day. And I came off the highway after too
many miles (not usually a good frame-of-mind), and I had just gone to googleNews
looking for the latest deathtoll when I saw the recently rumored news of The Upgrade.
Not wanting to delay a millisecond on my faithful application for The Upgrade, I called
and heard $500 and quickly hung up (before I could scream) and did a silent scream via
email. (Did I forget to mention that The Survey just revealed that our property line
appears to cut through our bathtub -- on a house which is 130 years old?!?) I was
probably due for some venting. After the phonecall to Apple, it felt like Triple-Tax Day.
I will try and remember April Sixteen for another reason, with a special insight on
expressions of outrage.

As I said, I'm philosophical about software/hardware purchases. I even held a very small
Buyer's Remorse party -- a month before the MacPro. It didn't help: especially after all of
the purchases, I began building The Pedestal upon which I could put Apple. The system,
despite 5.13, seems to be working within expectations and within my limited ability to
evaluate it. (It has only crashed once -- the vaunted Vault seemed to work --- I'm told
that I shouldn't try to capture more than 10 minutes at SD ... maybe if we can solve the
latter I will be actually happy. )
But I really wasn't yet ready for what seemed like another hit: I still have to decide between
Decklink and Kona ... And YES, another $500 I can give to my Fixer in a tough economy in
a devastated country means a LOT to me.

These aren't excuses ... OK they're excuses.
I also apologize to anyone who felt baited, and who might've stabbed back.
I will continue to look here for excellent insight and advice, not for guarantees of success.
And get out and socialize.
-d

PS
Maybe I should try and ride that dramatic urge - maybe there's a mean willie lohman in there.
Brings to mind the old adage about small theatre: why so vicious? because the stakes are
so low.

Thanks again to those who expressed solidarity with my dilemma. There are some people
who purchased even more recently who probably felt worse than me.






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