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from 1080i 29.97fps to 1080p 25fps

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Spyros Skandalosfrom 1080i 29.97fps to 1080p 25fps
by on Dec 18, 2012 at 8:43:06 pm

I am working on a short movie.
My 5hours footage shot with a Sony hdv Fx1 1080i 29.97fps.
I want to get a smoother look and decided to edit in a 25fps timeline (fcpx).
The desired output is 1080p 25fps.
Is that right? Is it so simple. I've done 3 months of work without a problem but yesterday i read somewhere that is not so simple. Am I going to have problems after exporting?
Do I need to do a specific process to de-interlace the footage?
I'm completely lost.

I've lost my sleep and I'm afraid I will lose 3 months of work.


Can someone explain to me? I'm a newbie.

Thanks in advance
Speros

Spyros
MacBook Pro intel core i7
4GB Ram 1333mhz DDR3
Macosx 10.6.8


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Steve EisenRe: from 1080i 29.97fps to 1080p 25fps
by on Dec 18, 2012 at 9:07:38 pm

I am sorry but you chose the wrong sequence setting to edit. You always edit at the same rate the footage was shot at.

Steve Eisen
Eisen Video Productions
Vice President
Chicago Creative Pro Users Group


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Spyros SkandalosRe: from 1080i 29.97fps to 1080p 25fps
by on Dec 18, 2012 at 9:17:38 pm

Thanks for the reply.

I would like to know what i should do from now on.
Should I make a new project with the initial format and just paste the already edited movie in that prior to export? Will everything be okay after that?
I really like my short on 25fps.
And off-course it shouldn't have visible field artifacts after export.

I think all my question can be summed up in two.
Do I have to re-edit or just change timeline properties to correct my wrong choice?
How do I get my output video de-interlaced and 25fps but still 1080?

Thanks again
Speros

Spyros
MacBook Pro intel core i7
4GB Ram 1333mhz DDR3
Macosx 10.6.8


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Shane RossRe: from 1080i 29.97fps to 1080p 25fps
by on Dec 18, 2012 at 9:38:44 pm

[Spyros Skandalos] "Should I make a new project with the initial format and just paste the already edited movie in that prior to export? Will everything be okay after that?"

You can do that, but no, everything won't be OK. You will have a lot of repair work to do. When copying and pasting sequences from one frame rate to another, gaps will appear between clips. Randomly, but all over the place. You will have to manually fix all those gaps.

[Spyros Skandalos] "I really like my short on 25fps."

Then why didn't you shoot 25fps? And why do you consider 25fps "smoother" than 29.97? Smoother means less jutter, and 29.97 is smoother than 24 or 25fps...and 60fps is even smoother. 48fps, what the Hobbit was shot in, is smoother than 25fps and 30fps. Watch it and see what smooth does to a movie! oy... I can understand wanting 25fps. Especially if you are in Europe, where 25fps is the standard...PAL. So shooting 29.97 if you are in a PAL country seems odd. If you are in the US or Japan...where 29.97 is the standard, as well as 24fps (film and film look), then why are you going 25fps? Just asking...I have no idea where you are located.

[Spyros Skandalos] "Do I have to re-edit or just change timeline properties to correct my wrong choice?"

You can copy paste, but have a lot of clean up to do.

[Spyros Skandalos] "How do I get my output video de-interlaced and 25fps but still 1080?"

You output 29.97, then take that into Compressor and convert that to 25fps, and use the Deinterlace options. Look in the FRAME CONTROLS of the Inspector...put everything to BEST and DELINTERLACE. And yes, this will take a long time. BUT...also test the settings on smaller sections to make sure it produces the look you want.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Spyros SkandalosRe: from 1080i 29.97fps to 1080p 25fps
by on Dec 19, 2012 at 11:47:11 am

REALLY thank you people for your replies.

Last night I exported my edit(1080 25i) with the wrong properties that I've chosen in the beginning just to test what will happen and surprisingly everything is in tact.
The problem is that field artifacts are visible. Not excessively but it's there.
I forgot to mention that all the sound is recorded in an external recording device, and yes it is synchronized.


[Shane Ross] "Especially if you are in Europe, where 25fps is the standard...PAL. So shooting 29.97 if you are in a PAL country seems odd."

I know it was very stupid to record in 29.97, cause I'm located in Greece.

[Shane Ross] "And why do you consider 25fps "smoother" than 29.97?"

Maybe the term "smoother" is not right, I didn't want to use "more cinematic" cause I know 24fps is cinematic.


[Shane Ross] "as well as 24fps (film and film look), then why are you going 25fps?"

Because there is no 24fps choice in the dropdown menu of fcpx. Also I thought that with 25fps I would have less motion blurring.


[Shane Ross] "48fps, what the Hobbit was shot in, is smoother than 25fps and 30fps"

I watched Hobbit 3d and it was very nice and "alive". My opinion is that uses a slightly different cinematic language, than the traditional, and my project cannot support it, or it cannot support my story. I'd like to stick to the traditional cinematic language although i'm a newbie and did tons of wrong choices.

Thank you again for your advices.
Speros

Spyros
MacBook Pro intel core i7
4GB Ram 1333mhz DDR3
Macosx 10.6.8


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Joseph OwensRe: from 1080i 29.97fps to 1080p 25fps
by on Dec 18, 2012 at 9:17:15 pm

[Spyros Skandalos] "My 5hours footage shot with a Sony hdv Fx1 1080i 29.97fps.
I want to get a smoother look and decided to edit in a 25fps timeline (fcpx)."



When a producer signs a delivery contract with a broadcaster, one of the items in every document I have ever seen is a clause either prohibiting the use of HDV or limiting its use to a pre-agreed, extremely small percentage of the finished property. Why? Because HDV is just a terrible format, for one. Terrible for broadcast because it is the #1 early Long-GOP format. It has the same bitrate as SD Digital Betacam. It is low-bandwidth because it has a highly compressed, 8-bit, 4:2:0 encoding scheme. Is any of this important? Only to people who need to do more with their footage than shoot it, edit it, bake out a Quicktime, and that's it.

Also, broadcasters tend to like their delivered shows to have been shot in the same frame rate as the deliverable: although 23.98 --> 25 and 23.98 -->29.97 are allowed, since it is rare for film-based productions to have been shot at the native broadcast film rate and so pulldown schemes were invented to accommodate that.

Enter HDV, that can only record at video rates, rather than film rates. It would have been so much easier for you to simply shoot at 25.

I'm surprised that FCP has not been a bigger obstacle with this framerate disparity, and it didn't discourage you at the outset.

In the end, though, finish your edit. Send it to Compressor, set either for "Better" or "Best" motion/ frame rate conversion and be prepared to wait for either a very long time, or an extremely, like unimagineably, long time.


jPo

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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