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Ripping DVDs - always deinterlace ?

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Rosie WalunasRipping DVDs - always deinterlace ?
by on Dec 2, 2012 at 6:00:30 pm

Not sure where to post this, but I'm on an FCP project now and using MPEG Streamclip to rip DVDs.

When a DVD is brought into MPEG Streamclip, it is defaulted to Interlace, so usually I uncheck that box, as I have seen other people do the same.

But should the box 'deinterlace' be checked? Is it no enough to uncheck interlace? Isn't deinterlace effecting the image, and should deinterlacing happen in the NLE?

When deinterlace is checked the resulting clip does look like it has squares opposed to interlacing lines, thus looking 'boxy.'

Which would be preferred?

Let's say I'm ripping the DVD and going to a different frame rate, working in a progressive sequence.

Thanks.


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Rafael AmadorRe: Ripping DVDs - always deinterlace ?
by on Dec 2, 2012 at 6:12:51 pm

DVDs can have any field order (upper, lower) or being progressive.
Have a look to the Stream Info (Cmd-I) to know what are you dealing with.
In case of being Interlaced, de-interlacing or not is up to you.
If is Progressive, deinterlacing not only will be for nothing, but even will degrade the picture.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Rosie WalunasRe: Ripping DVDs - always deinterlace ?
by on Dec 2, 2012 at 6:17:00 pm

Well, wouldn't an interlaced clip in a progressive timeline be a problem for the online editor and/or colorist down the line?

Or would a deinterlaced clip be better or worse to work with?

(I guess this also spans beyond DVDs as archive could come in interlaced and the project might be progressive.)

Thanks.


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Nick MeyersRe: Ripping DVDs - always deinterlace ?
by on Dec 2, 2012 at 8:31:18 pm

not necessarily.
you'd have to ask them

it would be passing the problem onto them,
but then again, they might be the best person to deal with it.
their de-interlacing tools may be better than yours.

when i use MPEG Streamclip the two checked "intrerlace" options are Interlaced Scaling & Reinterlace Chroma

here's what the manual says

Interlaced Scaling
If you are scaling an interlaced file to a different height, you can tell MPEG Streamclip to preserve interlacement and scale each video field separately by checking "Interlaced Scaling". If you don't, interlacement will be lost in the scaled movie, and, worse, you will get many visual artifacts. This setting is now enabled by default; remember to disable it with progressive files.
Interlacement requires a frame height of more than 288 pixels. If the frame height of the source file is up to 288, interlaced scaling will not be enabled. If the frame height you have chosen for the exported movie is up to 288 and you check "Interlaced Scaling", MPEG Streamclip discards the lower field before scaling the picture (i.e. it performs a fast deinterlacing by dropping one field).

Reinterlace Chroma
If you are converting an interlaced MPEG-1/MPEG-2 file, you may wish to "reinterlace" chroma. By checking "Reinterlace Chroma" you can enable a special remapping of 4:2:0 chroma lines so they will be split correctly between the two video fields. This is a very advanced option: only professional users may see the difference in the output movie. This option is enabled by default; disable it when you are sure your file is not interlaced.
This option has no effect if the source stream is not an MPEG-1/MPEG-2 stream.

Deinterlace Video
If you have an interlaced file, you may also want to deinterlace it, usually to convert into a progressive format, get a "film" effect and have a better playback on the computer's display. When you check the option "Deinterlace Video", MPEG Streamclip enables a special motion-adaptive deinterlacer, and it deinterlaces the lower field in the parts that contain motion, and preserves video quality of all parts that do not contain motion; the upper field is left unchanged. This option slows down the conversion.
Please note that if you are changing the height of an interlaced stream (that is, you are telling MPEG Streamclip to perform vertical scaling) then you must enable either "Interlaced Scaling" or "Deinterlace Video" (at your own choice), otherwise you will see bad video artifacts in the converted movie.


nick


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Rafael AmadorRe: Ripping DVDs - always deinterlace ?
by on Dec 3, 2012 at 2:42:28 am

As Nick said.
If you wan't to get the best from the DVD, and you don't know how the clips will be used and delivered the final product, transcode it as it is.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Chris TompkinsRe: Ripping DVDs - always deinterlace ?
by on Dec 3, 2012 at 3:50:38 pm

If the DVD video IS interlaced, then YES, keep it that way.

Chris Tompkins
Video Atlanta LLC


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Dave LaRondeRe: Ripping DVDs - always deinterlace ?
by on Dec 3, 2012 at 5:36:25 pm

[Rafael Amador] "DVDs can have any field order (upper, lower) or being progressive."

Actually, no. All DVDs have a lower field first field order, both PAL and NTSC.

That includes footage shot in progressive scan: the difference lies in the scanning. Interlaced scan scans one field and records it as a field. Then it scans the other field and records the field. The SCAN of the fields is done at two separate times. Progressive scan scans the entire frame, in the same instant of time. It then records the entire frame as two fields... and the fields are recorded lower field first.

It's a subtle difference, but one that causes problems for many people.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Chris TompkinsRe: Ripping DVDs - always deinterlace ?
by on Dec 3, 2012 at 5:56:20 pm

For the last few years, when I needed to make a SD NTSC DVD from HD NTSC material (Upper Fields) I would create a UFF m2v.
It looks correct when played back off the DVD feeding a TV.

Chris Tompkins
Video Atlanta LLC


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Rafael AmadorRe: Ripping DVDs - always deinterlace ?
by on Dec 3, 2012 at 7:04:40 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "Actually, no. All DVDs have a lower field first field order, both PAL and NTSC. "
That's a myth Dave.
I make my DVDs (PAL land) Lower when the source is Lower (DV) and Upper when the source is HD.
In NTSC land many people think that DVDs are only Lower because most of your SD sources (DV, Uncompressed) are Lwer.
In PAL-land SD Uncompressed is Upper, when that is your source, DVs are made Upper.
I've found as well few Hollywood movies DVDs being Upper.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Dave LaRondeRe: Ripping DVDs - always deinterlace ?
by on Dec 4, 2012 at 3:37:41 pm

I have no doubt that you've used both kinds of SOURCE video to make DVDs.

However, once the mpeg2 file is created -- PAL or NTSC -- its field order is always lower field first. Lower field first is the technical standard for DVDs. Since this thread is about ripping DVDs, this would be a handy thing to know.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Rafael AmadorRe: Ripping DVDs - always deinterlace ?
by on Dec 4, 2012 at 4:52:50 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "However, once the mpeg2 file is created -- PAL or NTSC -- its field order is always lower field first. Lower field first is the technical standard for DVDs"
Again, no.
The standard for MEPG-2 DVD compliant do not define the field order.
Make an MPEG-2 Upper first and open with MPGStreamclip the "Stream Info" window. The application will identify the file as Upper and will be read as Upper.
And if you convert it to QT you have to check it as upper and you will get an Upper .mov.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Chris TompkinsRe: Ripping DVDs - always deinterlace ?
by on Dec 4, 2012 at 4:56:24 pm

This has been my understanding as well. You can have a UFF SD DVD in NTSC land.

Chris Tompkins
Video Atlanta LLC


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Rosie WalunasRe: Ripping DVDs - always deinterlace ?
by on Dec 27, 2012 at 5:57:53 pm

So let's say, when I get Stream Info it shows "lower field first" - but MPEG Streamclip is defaulted to land on Upper Field First in the Export Window. Should I simply select Lower Field First? Or Upper Field First? (When the DVD is going to go to a Progressive project.)

If I do not select De-interlace - sometimes the scan lines are visible - and especially when we have projected on a big screen. However, just as noted above, De-interlacing is a bit degrading. To be extra specific, this was most noticeable on rips of cartoon shows 4:3 DVDs. Both ways look like a huge loss.

I'm constantly thinking forward to the online - so any additional thoughts would be great.

(Not to keep this never-ending argument going.)

Thanks!


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Nick MeyersRe: Ripping DVDs - always deinterlace ?
by on Dec 27, 2012 at 8:50:39 pm

"To be extra specific, this was most noticeable on rips of cartoon shows 4:3 DVDs"

now that's interesting, as Cartoons are generally NOT produced as interlaced.
many rarely go beyond "2"s, where each cell is shot for 2 frames.

so it should be quite possible to produce a RIP with no interlacing artefacts.

the errors could be that the DVD is 29.97, and the DVD has pulldown (Or would that be pull-up? - sorry, i am from PAL land)


nick


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Rosie WalunasRe: Ripping DVDs - always deinterlace ?
by on Dec 27, 2012 at 9:24:50 pm

I think that's what I'm up against. But, I guess, to rehash the issue is whether or not the deinterlace box should be checked when ripping a DVD, which are more often than not 29.97. Most of the time if the box is not checked then scan lines are present, but, when deinterlace is checked, then the pixel 'boxes' are more present. Neither look great. This is most obvious when the cartoon rips are presented.

Any other thoughts?

On a lot of projects I've done, I've ripped the DVD and Exported straight to HD, so the pixels behave differently, somehow. But I can't do that for this project due to space and the editor's call.

Still trying to nail this...

Thanks.


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Nick MeyersRe: Ripping DVDs - always deinterlace ?
by on Dec 29, 2012 at 1:11:36 am

"But, I guess, to rehash the issue is whether or not the deinterlace box should be checked when ripping a DVD, which are more often than not 29.97"

if that is the issue, then i say NO.
you want to de-interlace in an environment where you can monitor, and hopefully control, the results.



nick


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