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Music changes after duplicating sequences

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Danielle WarrenMusic changes after duplicating sequences
by on May 3, 2012 at 1:26:04 pm

Hey all,
I've noticed this problem every now and then. I'll be working away on a cut, send off to the client, get changes back, then duplicate the last sequence I was working on and go from there. What's odd is that somehow the music gets all screwy in the new sequence even though nothing has changed.

Screwy might be a bad term, but basically the music will be playing, and looks fine in the waveform, but it suddenly plays a totally different part of the song then what it should. When that happens, I have to go back to the original music file in FCP and re-cut it in that spot. So it's only the track in the sequence that gets messed up, not the original file. It's so completely bizarre. I have no idea why that happens or what causes it, and it doesn't happen all the time. But the problem is, I always have to check the music is ok with each new sequence and that's time consuming. Duplicating shouldn't screw anything up.

Anyone have any thoughts or experienced this themselves? Thanks!


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Music changes after duplicating sequences
by on May 3, 2012 at 1:48:26 pm

Use the render manager and trash your audio render files for that sequence.

It's in the tools menu.


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Roy McKenzieRe: Music changes after duplicating sequences
by on May 3, 2012 at 2:45:33 pm

Is it mp3 music? FCP does not like mp3s even though it says it does. I always convert to AIFF.

What happen when you take the audio in the new sequence offline then relink it?

Thank you

Roy


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Danielle WarrenRe: Music changes after duplicating sequences
by on May 3, 2012 at 2:48:27 pm

They're not MP3s, they're AIFFs.

I haven't taken them offline and relinked them so I don't know what happens. What's strange is the original file in the project never goes bad, it's only what's in the sequences that gets messed up.


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Music changes after duplicating sequences
by on May 3, 2012 at 2:57:18 pm

[Danielle Warren] "I haven't taken them offline and relinked them so I don't know what happens. What's strange is the original file in the project never goes bad, it's only what's in the sequences that gets messed up."

Unfortunately, it's how FCP works.

Render files are named after sequences, and so if those names cross paths, sometimes FCP plays back the wrong render files.

Trashing those temporary render files clears that problem.

You can always trash them from the Finder as well in your FCP Docs folder > Audio Render Files.

Jeremy


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Danielle WarrenRe: Music changes after duplicating sequences
by on May 3, 2012 at 4:43:41 pm

Hi Jeremy,
I think you've answered the question. It must be playing back the wrong render files, because the song plays, but it's not the right part of the song which means it must be playing back something else.

That's very odd though still, because each sequence is named something different, but who knows!

As this project just finished, for the future, every time I duplicate a sequence to make changes to it, should I just delete the render files every time?

Thanks again! So glad I understand what the problem is and hopefully how to fix it. (I say hopefully only because I haven't had a chance to try it out.)

Danielle


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Music changes after duplicating sequences
by on May 3, 2012 at 4:47:52 pm

[Danielle Warren] "That's very odd though still, because each sequence is named something different, but who knows! "

Yes, but sometimes those attached render files are still attached to old names, and FCP7 loses track.

[Danielle Warren] "As this project just finished, for the future, every time I duplicate a sequence to make changes to it, should I just delete the render files every time? "

It's up to you. Before I export a master, I usually trash all render files and rerender, but it's an old habit from back in the days when FCP's renders were even worse than now.

Audio renders are really easy to rerender so there's no real penalty, especially if it ensures that your program will be correct!

Jeremy


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Danielle WarrenRe: Music changes after duplicating sequences
by on May 3, 2012 at 4:52:14 pm

"It's up to you. Before I export a master, I usually trash all render files and rerender, but it's an old habit from back in the days when FCP's renders were even worse than now.

Audio renders are really easy to rerender so there's no real penalty, especially if it ensures that your program will be correct!"

Definitely always worth it to make sure it's correct. This project it was a pain in the a** because the sequence was 5 and a 1/2 minutes long. So I'd watch it, but just to make sure the audio was good, I'd watch again just playing the music. So it took over 11 minutes just to check before exporting. I shouldn't have to do that.

I will definitely try what you're saying for next time. Audio takes seconds to render so it's no big deal to re-render it. I also just noticed as well that the audio is AIFF, but 44.1. I'm sure that didn't help. Next time I'll make sure it's always 48.

Thanks again for your help!


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Music changes after duplicating sequences
by on May 3, 2012 at 5:00:18 pm

[Danielle Warren] "Next time I'll make sure it's always 48. "

A really easy way to change this is to right click on the audio clip in the timeline and choose "open in editor".

This should open up Soundtrack Pro if you have it installed.

Find the "Process" menu and change the sample rate to 48000. Click OK, then hit save (command-s). Very important to hit save.

Command-tab back to FCP, and you will see that the green line is now gone and that clip won't need to render anymore.

Jeremy


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Danielle WarrenRe: Music changes after duplicating sequences
by on May 3, 2012 at 2:47:34 pm

But it happens in lots of different sequences, and it doesn't happen all the time. Next time I start a project, should I just delete the audio renders after the first sequence is made to avoid the problem down the road?


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Roy McKenzieRe: Music changes after duplicating sequences
by on May 3, 2012 at 3:07:30 pm

What you described has happened to me with Mp3s that's why I say it.

I would take the music offline in the new sequence and then relink and see if it fixes it. Then at a least you have an easy work around.

Make the music clips independent in the new sequence if you dont want to take all the music clips offline in the other sequences.

Why is everyone referring to rendered media? Why are the audio clips need to be rendered if they are AIFFs, maybe I'm missing something?

Thank you

Roy


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Music changes after duplicating sequences
by on May 3, 2012 at 3:43:00 pm

[Roy McKenzie] "Why is everyone referring to rendered media? Why are the audio clips need to be rendered if they are AIFFs, maybe I'm missing something?"

If you have filters on your clips, it requires a render. Sometimes if you have enough clips stacked in top of each other, there's a render. Even if the files are aiffs, sometimes the sample rate is 44.1 instead of 48k and that will require a render. Nested sequences sometimes require an audio render.


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Roy McKenzieRe: Music changes after duplicating sequences
by on May 3, 2012 at 3:54:52 pm

Boost you realtime tracks up to 99 in your preferences. What are you using a g4? I rarely have to render audio track with filters and i have had 20++ layers of audio w/ filters.

Did the offline re-link thing work.

Thank you

Roy


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Music changes after duplicating sequences
by on May 3, 2012 at 4:06:13 pm

[Roy McKenzie] "Boost you realtime tracks up to 99 in your preferences. What are you using a g4?"

Are you talking to me?

No. I am not using a g4.

If I have a stack of 8 tracks of audio, a compressor/limiter on each track, and then you start stacking other filters on top of them, and then add a dissolves between clips, and then nest that in to 2 channels, there are times when I need to render. No big deal, it takes a few seconds. Audio is easy to process.

There are days when I am trying out music and it comes in 44.1, i simply add it to the timeline and render. When it gets locked in I convert to 48k.

I don't know what the big deal is here.


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Roy McKenzieRe: Music changes after duplicating sequences
by on May 3, 2012 at 4:22:43 pm

I was. It just seems like there is a lot of rendering for nuthn. I reproduced what you described withw the 8 tracks and a song at 44.1 and added a compressor, 3band equalizer echo and sample delay (just picked two more randomly) and I still at real time (no render needed).

Not for nuthn cause this is really unrelated to your problem, but did you boost up your real-time audio track in the preferences? I saw your machine specs in your profile. It's fast enough.

What I am saying is, maybe you won't have this problem if you dont have to render audio in the first place.



Thank you

Roy


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Music changes after duplicating sequences
by on May 3, 2012 at 4:41:23 pm

Roy, I don't have a problem.

Danielle does and we are veering off track.

That green line on the 44.1 audio renders when I render all, as do all filters whether they technically need to or not. Sometimes, those renders get jumbled in FCP7 due to the way FCP7 names it's render files after the name of sequences. It's the way it has always been.

Danielle has a problem that the wrong render files are being played back. It's a really easy fix. Delete the render files.

Jeremy


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Harry Bromley-DavenportRe: Music changes after duplicating sequences
by on May 5, 2012 at 4:06:22 am

Ha! This one again!

I had this years ago - Sudden Explosive Sound Syndrome (SESS). It's one of life's great mysteries.

It's a special FCP effect where one of your tracks is suddenly playing back something completely unrelated - like a Brass Band VERY LOUD. It was included by Apple at vast expense and I haven't heard this problem since FCP 4.5.

Do the usual - trash prefs and audio render files - oh, and be sure that you aren't using mp3 files. You ABSOLUTELY must convert these to something sensible like .aif or .wav.

You are not alone.

Hugs

Harry.



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