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Linking Multiclip with Dual-System Audio

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Rob DavisLinking Multiclip with Dual-System Audio
by on Aug 18, 2011 at 4:05:16 pm

I frequently edit multi-camera DSLR video in final cut. I use pluraleyes to sync the multiple camera angles and the dual-system audio then export reference movies to use in creating a multiclip with pluraleyes--pretty standard.

My problem is that inevitably in the course of editing I accidentally get the audio and video out of sync in a few clips, which takes forever to fix. I know it is very easy to link audio and video in final cut but when I try to link my master dual-system audio with my multiclip using the 'link' item under the modify menu it is grayed out and won't allow me to do it.

Any suggestions?


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Linking Multiclip with Dual-System Audio
by on Aug 18, 2011 at 6:01:03 pm

Have you tried to do this one clip at a time?


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Rob DavisRe: Linking Multiclip with Dual-System Audio
by on Aug 18, 2011 at 7:38:52 pm

Jeremy-

I have tried that but to no avail because the multiclip contains reference movies (one for each camera) that are linked to many individual clips. Or, am I missing something?

Here is a screenshot of one of these kind of sequences. The top track is the multiclip. The bottom two tracks are the L and R master audio (the dual system audio) and the rest of the tracks are the original clips synced by pluraleyes. I only use the multiclip and dual-system audio master and thats what I want linked. I just leave the rest of the clips there for reference.



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Matt LyonRe: Linking Multiclip with Dual-System Audio
by on Aug 18, 2011 at 9:34:11 pm

I would think editing with reference movies is asking for trouble, isn't it? How would you reconstitute your show if something happened to the data on your media drive. I'm happy to be proven wrong - but what made you decide this is a viable workflow?

In any case, I think you'd have better luck merging your dual system audio with your video, THEN making your multiclips.

Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto


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Rob DavisRe: Linking Multiclip with Dual-System Audio
by on Aug 18, 2011 at 11:27:16 pm

That's a good point. To be honest, when I first started using pluraleyes to sync DSLR video because it lacked timecode I followed their suggested workflow and never questioned it and have had problems with reference movies several times since.

The only thing I am unsure of with using the workflow you suggest--I understand that Final Cut can't make multiclips when there are multiple clips on each track because each camera wasn't running continuously. I suppose I could export self-contained movies to combine all the clips from each camera into one long clip, then merge with dual-system audio and then create the multiclips but it would be take up tons of extra disk space. Is there a way to merge the dual-system audio with the video despite the fact that each track has multiple clips.


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Matt LyonRe: Linking Multiclip with Dual-System Audio
by on Aug 19, 2011 at 3:39:50 am

I don't know if I have a perfect answer, Rob. My preference is to not re-export any kind of self contained or reference quicktimes. I've been working lately with prores proxy media. So I need to be able to keep my connections to the camera originals so I can online at full quality.

So my approach has been to razor blade the audio and create multiclips that last up to the start of the next video clip. So you'll end up with lots more multiclips. This is one of the big drawbacks of 7Ds, imho. They seem to spontaneously start and stop rolling as they please!

There are people on this list who do a lot more multi-cam shows then I do, so maybe someone else has a better answer. But since I really rely on the "log & transfer" functionality, I'm loathe to do any kind of re-exporting of footage.

Hope this helps,

Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto


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Rob DavisRe: Linking Multiclip with Dual-System Audio
by on Aug 19, 2011 at 2:05:58 pm

That's what I figured. The multiple multiclips method would work for some projects but wouldnt be realistic for projects with many clips.

Agreed about dslr video. I'm hoping the days I'll be editing it in its current form are numbered. The short clip length is only one of many headaches related to shooting with them.

Thanks for your help.


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Linking Multiclip with Dual-System Audio
by on Aug 19, 2011 at 3:09:00 pm

Thanks for the screen grab.

You would have to link audio to the individual angles, and not to the multi clip.

Do all of your angles have a guide track? That way, you could marry the final audio to one angle, and use the audio just from that angle in the multicam edit.

I agree, reference files are not the way to go here.

You might also consider dual eyes which marries the audio and video together and makes it much easier.


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Rob DavisRe: Linking Multiclip with Dual-System Audio
by on Aug 19, 2011 at 6:27:20 pm

Thanks for the post Jeremy.

Dualeyes seems to be the way to go for future projects--wish I had of looked into it earlier. For this project, I already have everything synced so I would love to not have to go back and re-sync everything with Dualeyes (I have dozens of interviews).

I am a little confused about using a guide track. I am familiar with using an audio guide track to ease in picture editing when the sound will be mixed after the fact but I haven't been able to find any info on using a guide track for video. I haven't figured out any way to create a multiclip without using reference movies because each angle contains multiple clips (mainly because canon dslr's have a 12 minute maximum clip length). I haven't really used multiclips outside of this workflow so please forgive my ignorance.

I completely agree that exporting movies and bringing them back in, reference or self-contained, is not the way to go. I have a producer with a proxy copy of the product and am in fact editing a second copy off a laptop right now because I am out of town and have already run into problems with the reference movies.

Jeremy--could you elaborate a little on using a guide track to marry the audio to one angle of the multiclip without using reference movies or would you perhaps know of a thread or resource where I could learn more about this workflow?

Thanks again for helping me through this.


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Linking Multiclip with Dual-System Audio
by on Aug 19, 2011 at 6:38:19 pm

[Rob Davis] "I am a little confused about using a guide track. I am familiar with using an audio guide track "

I am referring to an audio guide track, actually.

The best way to do this is get sync on all of your movies using Plural Eyes, then export new self contained movies to use in editing. Those now become your masters. If it's all setup correctly, you can even match the "tc" so that your new self contained movies will have matching "tc" to the original DSLR/audio (if you have used the Canon log and transfer plugin and have retained the THM files).

[Rob Davis] "I haven't figured out any way to create a multiclip without using reference movies because each angle contains multiple clips (mainly because canon dslr's have a 12 minute maximum clip length)."

You will either have to make multiple multi-clips, or export as self contained. Self contained will have the advantage of keeping everything together, even with the gaps.

When editing in multi-cam, you can choose the source of the audio. you can either switch it with all the angles, or just choose one of the angle to you as the "master" audio track. That way, you wouldn't have to add the good audio to all angles, just to one master track. as long as your other angles have an audio guide track to ensure sync, you should be OK.


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Rob DavisRe: Linking Multiclip with Dual-System Audio
by on Aug 19, 2011 at 7:34:10 pm

Gotcha. Self-contained movies sound like the best route for this project and fortunately, all clips were imported with the log and transfer so they do have tc. The downside will obviously be the huge file sizes of the self-contained movies and the long export times but that still seems like the best way to go. Next time I'll use dualeyes.

Thanks again Jeremy.


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