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Converting 1080 60i to 1080 50i

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Ian Liuzzi-FedunConverting 1080 60i to 1080 50i
by on Jan 6, 2011 at 4:07:10 am

For distribution in Europe (to TV stations - not DVD) I need to convert my film to 1080 50i. I have looked at a variety of options and I would like your opinion. Is the next best thing down from a Teranex Compressor or is there an intermediate step or two?



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walter biscardiRe: Converting 1080 60i to 1080 50i
by on Jan 6, 2011 at 9:09:28 am

You really want to do this in hardware. And actually a Terranex is not always up to snuff as we recently found out. Alchemist is apparently the way to go if you want a perfect conversion.

We've been sending our 1080i/60 masters to PostWorks New York for conversion to 1080i/50 for our European shows. They're really good and really reasonable.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

"Foul Water, Fiery Serpent" Winner, Best Documentary, LA Reel Film Festival...

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Andy MeesRe: Converting 1080 60i to 1080 50i
by on Jan 6, 2011 at 12:34:18 pm

Terranex is great but you need to be certain that the facility you use has one with all the bells and whistles ... Alchemist Ph.C is the dogs bollocks tho.


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Ian Liuzzi-FedunRe: Converting 1080 60i to 1080 50i
by on Jan 6, 2011 at 12:51:47 pm

This is very interesting to hear that Teranex is not necessarily the best. My question is still not fully answered. Is there some intermediate board/device/method between something awfully expensive and Compressor that is "possible" to purchase that one could get or use for this?



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eric pautschRe: Converting 1080 60i to 1080 50i
by on Jan 6, 2011 at 2:49:46 pm

You can do this with AviSnyth and Virtual dub and match the quality of a hardware converter - but its PC only



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Ian Liuzzi-FedunRe: Converting 1080 60i to 1080 50i
by on Jan 6, 2011 at 5:53:11 pm

Can someone else comment on this. Can this software really do this and make it look close to an Alchamist - better than Compressor?



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Walter SoykaRe: Converting 1080 60i to 1080 50i
by on Jan 6, 2011 at 6:29:46 pm

[eric pautsch] "You can do this with AviSnyth and Virtual dub and match the quality of a hardware converter - but its PC only"

Eric, I'd love to test this sometime. Is there a particular script you're using, or have you developed your own?

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Andy MeesRe: Converting 1080 60i to 1080 50i
by on Jan 6, 2011 at 2:57:25 pm

Is there some intermediate board/device/method between something awfully expensive and Compressor that is "possible" to purchase that one could get or use for this?

You don't actually have to buy an awfully expensive Teranex (or Alchemist or whatever) to get your video converted ... as Walter alludes, you just need to send it to a facility that does have the right equipment ie you pay someone who has already made that bigger investment to convert your footage for you.

If you want to avoid even the cost of having someone else convert it for you then Compressor's higher quality settings provide excellent results albeit at the cost of taking a long time to work ... or if you have an aversion to Compressor perhaps you could have a look at the Standards Conversion plugin pack from Graeme Nattress, also highly regarded: http://www.nattress.com/Products/standardsconversion/standardsconversion.ht...

As Eric notes, there are some excellent PC based software tools for handling the conversion, if that's something you're equipped for.

As far as I know there is no "cheap" yet high quality HD standards conversion / frame rate conversion hardware out there. Teranex make an affordable "Teranex Mini" but as far as standards conversions go, thats SD only. Blackmagic Design also recently released their super affrodable UpDownCross Mini Convertor but I believe that also handles standards conversions as SD only.

Hope it helps
Andy


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Ian Liuzzi-FedunRe: Converting 1080 60i to 1080 50i
by on Jan 6, 2011 at 5:55:12 pm

I understand that I can just take my video to a facility but I always like doing things myself and to top it all off I might have to do this again and again so investing in something that I can use myself over again would appear to be best. I do have access to PCs but is this software really that good....better than Compressor?



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Walter SoykaRe: Converting 1080 60i to 1080 50i
by on Jan 6, 2011 at 6:35:10 pm

[Ian Liuzzi-Fedun] "I understand that I can just take my video to a facility but I always like doing things myself"

What are your delivery requirements? What do the delivery specs say about format conversions? Do you have to output to tape? If so, do you have the deck?

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Ian Liuzzi-FedunRe: Converting 1080 60i to 1080 50i
by on Jan 6, 2011 at 6:40:18 pm

DVCPro HD is the output requirement. Obviously in 1080 50i



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Walter SoykaRe: Converting 1080 60i to 1080 50i
by on Jan 6, 2011 at 2:54:18 pm

[walter biscardi] "Terranex is not always up to snuff as we recently found out. Alchemist is apparently the way to go if you want a perfect conversion."

Alchemist Ph.C. uses motion compensation in its frame rate conversion, and Teranex does not. That's why Alchemist conversions have looked better than Teranex conversions for the last several years.

That said, Teranex announced a motion-compensated frame rate converter at last year's IBC. I don't know if they've shipped yet, but I'd be curious how the new models compare.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Dale LarsenRe: Converting 1080 60i to 1080 50i
by on Jan 25, 2011 at 8:53:18 pm

Has any solution presented itself to you?

I face a similar need to convert to PAL, with over a 100 titles, so need it in house.



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Ian Liuzzi-FedunRe: Converting 1080 60i to 1080 50i
by on Jan 26, 2011 at 7:41:12 pm

Everything is just as everyone has said. In-house it appears that compressor or squeeze are the best. Outside of that an Alchamist and then a Tyranex are best.



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Andy TrimlettRe: Converting 1080 60i to 1080 50i
by on Jan 30, 2013 at 6:40:33 pm

Hi All,

We're producing a show in Europe for broadcast in the US. One of our potential production houses is suggesting that they could do the 50i to 60i conversion in house with Edius Pro. The marketing material for Edius Pro suggests that frame rate conversion is the heart and soul of their program. I've never played with Edius, but I have a lot of experience with claims made in marketing materials.

Does anyone have any experience backing this claim up? Or should we just fork over the cash to a post house that has an Alchemist PhC?

Thanks!


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Ian Liuzzi-FedunRe: Converting 1080 60i to 1080 50i
by on Jan 30, 2013 at 6:56:20 pm

Personal experience nothing is better than a PhC but I have found company engineers to be quite honest. Give GV a call.



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Andy TrimlettRe: Converting 1080 60i to 1080 50i
by on Jan 30, 2013 at 11:33:40 pm

Thanks! Just talked to an engineer. He hadn't heard of Alchemist PhC so he couldn't offer a real comparison, but seemed to think that there would be no problem at all with having Edius do the conversion.


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Andy MeesRe: Converting 1080 60i to 1080 50i
by on Jan 31, 2013 at 12:46:52 am

Hi Andy

I can't say I've ever explicitly used Edius for standards conversion, but I do use it pretty much daily for editing, and routinely throw all manner of source footage at it including mixed frame rates ... and at the end of the day it all passes the QC and does to air. That said, it doesn't have any mysterious magical properties, and if I were needing to convert a full show then I'm pretty sure I'd use a Terranex or Alchemist box. But while you're thinking about it, why not just grab the free Edius trial and try it out with a bit if your source footage? If you're shooting 25p/50i then try conforming it to 24p/48i (you can select the preferred frame rate in the clip's properties) and then drop that in your 30p/60i timeline ... should look pretty good.

Cheers
Andy


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Andy TrimlettRe: Converting 1080 60i to 1080 50i
by on Jan 31, 2013 at 4:06:27 am

That's great to hear! We aren't shooting until April (trying to figure this out before it becomes a problem and not after, for once), so I don't have any source video. But I'll see if I can get my hands on some sample video.
Thanks so much!


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