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Problem syncing sound with 23.98 fps video

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Owen MarshallProblem syncing sound with 23.98 fps video
by on Dec 29, 2010 at 3:23:16 pm

I recently shot a series of interviews for a documentary using a Canon 7D. The video was recorded at 23.98 fps.

The audio was recorded on a separate device (a Tascam DR-100), with a boom mic setup. We recorded the audio (wav) at 16-bit Integer (Little Endian) 48.000kHz.

I have used compressor to convert my H.264 video clips to Apple ProRes 422, but have kept the original frame rate (23.98 fps).

I then imported the clips to final cut pro (version 6.0.6) with a timeline sequence set up for 23.98 fps. The problem I am having is when I sync up the sound with the picture, it starts out sync but slowly (over a few minutes) the audio gradually over takes the video.

I have tried various solutions, cinema tools conversions of the video from 23.98 fps to 24 fps, slowing down the video in fcp to 99.9% (which did work on some clips) or recompressing footage to different frame rates. It seems that none of these solutions works very consistently.

Can you help me?


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David Roth WeissRe: Problem syncing sound with 23.98 fps video
by on Dec 29, 2010 at 4:48:31 pm

The answer does not lay in changing the speed of the video, but rather in the audio. Sound Track Pro has a Pullup/Pull Down feature that is ideal for just this type of situation. Check it out.

If you want me to work out the workflow for you go to web page at to see how to reach me: http://www.drwfilms.com/consultingandtra.html

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Dave LaRondeRe: Problem syncing sound with 23.98 fps video
by on Dec 29, 2010 at 5:16:34 pm

[Owen Marshall] "I recently shot a series of interviews for a documentary using a Canon 7D. The video was recorded at 23.98 fps... I have used compressor to convert my H.264 video clips to Apple ProRes 422, but have kept the original frame rate (23.98 fps)."

Oops! That was a VERY BAD idea. In addition to The Good Mr. Weiss' excellent advice, you need to watch this:

http://library.creativecow.net/ross_shane/tapeless_online/1

...and I sincerely hope you still have the original cards containing your video. Don't erase them! If you did already, you've just made a TON of extra work for yourself.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Owen MarshallRe: Problem syncing sound with 23.98 fps video
by on Dec 29, 2010 at 5:23:58 pm

Dave, I made sure I kept a back up of the files as they came off of the cards (.THM's included - whatever they are).

Mr. Weiss, I have sent you an e-mail. Trying to work out pull up/pull down in sound track pro right now.

Thank you gentlemen


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Michael GissingRe: Problem syncing sound with 23.98 fps video
by on Dec 29, 2010 at 8:32:29 pm

The most common problem with wav files drifting is that the default project doesn't match the frame rate of the current sequence. Rather than chase speeds of video or audio around, the best thing is to get the impoort process right.

This article not only describes the way to do this (second half) but also describes a way using xml to fix embedded problems in an edited sequence. Follow the import advice and try again.

http://library.creativecow.net/lyon_matt/fixing-fcp-assets/1


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Problem syncing sound with 23.98 fps video
by on Dec 29, 2010 at 11:08:44 pm

It could be the easy setup trick as Michael states, but did you enter 23.98 in Compressor or did you use 23.976?

You should enter 23.976, and not use 23.98 or current.


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Owen MarshallRe: Problem syncing sound with 23.98 fps video
by on Dec 30, 2010 at 11:22:30 am

Michael Gissing - A gold star for you sir. That article has sorted it. I didn't have my default audio/video setting set to 23.98 fps. Doesn't matter what your timeline is set to if the default is wrong, then audio wav's and aiff's will always be imported as FCP's default frame rate, which in my case was 25 fps.

Now my only other debate is if I should go back and use log and transfer? As it stands I have prores'd all my footage in compressor leaving the files with the camera's default names. I've always been reluctant to use log and transfer because I didn't understand how the files would reconnect after you have renamed them. I watched the video someone posted which explained it (offline process included) and it made a lot of sense.

How ever it took me three days to ProRes my rushes and I just want to get started.

To log and transfer or not to log and transfer, that is the new question...?


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Problem syncing sound with 23.98 fps video
by on Dec 30, 2010 at 4:13:46 pm

I used to recommend log and transfer without fail, but there's been some concern lately when it comes time to restore a project. Upon restoring, If the scratch drive was changed since the first time you logged and transferred it seems the log and transfer plugin will not work as expected. I haven't had time to run tests myself, but i will once the holidays are over.

You can read more about it here:

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/8/1115207

It has popped up a few times on this forum now.

Jeremy


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Problem syncing sound with 23.98 fps video
by on Jan 4, 2011 at 11:01:43 pm

I know this doesn't have to do with the OP, but does have to do with log and transfer of Canon footage.

After running some tests today, it seems the Canon L&T plugin is pretty busted when it comes time to restore. This is most definitely broken. If the file path changes from one log and transfer session to the next, FCP can't seem to find the Canon volumes. Even if you mount the volumes manually, FCP can't seem to make sense of where the Canon footage is.

This is a huge problem if you used custom names. Just another reason to prove to producers that these DSLR cameras are shit. 'Scuse my French.

Jeremy


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Michael GissingRe: Problem syncing sound with 23.98 fps video
by on Dec 30, 2010 at 9:51:50 pm

Gold Star belongs to Matt Lyon for his helpful tutorial


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