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waveform do not match the actual audio sound

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Andrei Bocharnikovwaveform do not match the actual audio sound
by on Dec 16, 2009 at 10:06:47 pm

Hi guys,

again problem with FCP :(

Cannot edit audio on timeline because waveform image do not match the actual audio sound of the track. First i did editing just visually according the image of the waveform but in the middle of cutting the sound i noticed that i cut out the beginning of the sentences. then I scrubbed the sound with the mouse and found out that waveform cheating me. At the beginning of the track everything is ok but as timeline progress the delay of sound and waveform is bigger and bigger. at the end i can not even find the sentence picture of what i see on timeline. It is really horrible.

I went through search of the forum and found some similar posts. I was trying to trash all waveform cache files, did mix-down of the sequence and deleted all the audio renders from render manager but problem is exactly the same in spite of all my try.

This problem is only with new files i import to project. all audios are perfectly matching waveform image and actual sound behind it. Also i was trying to cut it on Macbook Pro and the same file has perfect waveform image on timeline.

Also the problem is only on timeline. WHen I open the file in viewer then waveform there is also perfect without any delay along the whole file from the beginning to the end.

I am freaking out... deadline is very close but i can not re cut new narration.

any tips and suggestions are really appreciated


MacPro Dual Quad 2.8 GHz, 4 GB DDR2 SDRAM, Leopard 10.5.8, QT 7.6.4, FCS3


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Chris BorjisRe: waveform do not match the actual audio sound
by on Dec 16, 2009 at 10:14:41 pm


trash preferences?



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Dave LaRondeRe: waveform do not match the actual audio sound
by on Dec 16, 2009 at 10:19:21 pm

Go to your scratch disk. Find the folder called Waveform Cache. Just get rid of all of the files. They are NOT the audio, just the waveform information FCP generates when you open an audio file for the first time.

FCP will then be forced to re-draw all the audio waveforms. It doesn't take long.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Andrei BocharnikovRe: waveform do not match the actual audio sound
by on Dec 16, 2009 at 10:55:10 pm

Thank you guys for the response! Both these things I did at the beginning of the problem as first (as i mentioned in my original post). Nothing helps.

MacPro Dual Quad 2.8 GHz, 4 GB DDR2 SDRAM, Leopard 10.5.8, QT 7.6.4, FCS3


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Paul DickinRe: waveform do not match the actual audio sound
by on Dec 16, 2009 at 11:43:01 pm

Hi
Extremely loud LOL!
I live with this daily with FCP 5.1.4 - if a linked (synced) shot is edited with the audio slipped out of alignment the Viewer waveforms are kaput...

Every day I think that once I upgrade to a more recent version of FCP it won't be so.
Tell me, Please!!!!



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Andrei BocharnikovRe: waveform do not match the actual audio sound
by on Dec 17, 2009 at 12:38:48 am

[Paul Dickin] "Every day I think that once I upgrade to a more recent version of FCP it won't be so. "

Paul, I own FCP 7.0.1 (latest) ... I suffer from this problem and can not find the solution.

Going to backup whole project and do clean reinstall of the OS plus FCS3. Let us see if this will help...



MacPro Dual Quad 2.8 GHz, 4 GB DDR2 SDRAM, Leopard 10.5.8, QT 7.6.4, FCS3


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Dave LaRondeRe: waveform do not match the actual audio sound
by on Dec 16, 2009 at 11:44:18 pm

I don't know if you can delete audio waveforms using the Render Manager, but if you can, you should.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Andrei BocharnikovRe: waveform do not match the actual audio sound
by on Dec 17, 2009 at 12:40:45 am

[Dave LaRonde] "I don't know if you can delete audio waveforms using the Render Manager, but if you can, you should."

Dave, I did it as soon I noticed the problem. No success...


MacPro Dual Quad 2.8 GHz, 4 GB DDR2 SDRAM, Leopard 10.5.8, QT 7.6.4, FCS3


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Matt LyonRe: waveform do not match the actual audio sound
by on Dec 17, 2009 at 5:34:39 am

Andrei, I had this problem recently and was able to fix it, but I don't know if the situation is the same as yours so my solution may not apply.
I had converted some low res quicktimes (23.98 h264) to dv codec for a quick and dirty temp edit. When I dropped the movies into a timeline, the waveforms had the same problem. I realized that QuickTime was not setting the framerate properly when I converted the files and fcp thought they were 24.00 fps. I also noticed the orange "effects" bar on the audio tracks (this is what tipped me off something was wrong). Anyway, I converted the movies again, using compressor this time and the problem went away.
So I don't know if this helps, but maybe there is an inconsistency in your media's frame rate and your sequence setting.... A long shot but I hope this helps...

Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto


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Andrei BocharnikovRe: waveform do not match the actual audio sound
by on Dec 17, 2009 at 12:45:13 pm

Matt thank you very much for your detailed input. My audio is not from video but it is pure audio recorded in studio by voiceover artist. Then it was processed by our sound technicians and now i have it as it is. No video associated to the files at all. So, i do not think any fps things is involved in my case.

i will check the orange marks you mentioned.

thank you again

MacPro Dual Quad 2.8 GHz, 4 GB DDR2 SDRAM, Leopard 10.5.8, QT 7.6.4, FCS3


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Matt LyonRe: waveform do not match the actual audio sound
by on Dec 17, 2009 at 3:06:39 pm

no problem Andrei, happy to help. I actually think that more can go wrong when dealing with just "pure" audio files. Select your clip and hit command-nine to open the "item properties" window. Check the audio format, sample rate and bit depth and compare them to your sequence settings. As a test, you might want to re-convert a file quickly in Quicktime player to AIFF and see if the new file has the same problems. Use whatever bit depth and sample rate settings match your timeline.


Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto


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Stace CarterRe: waveform do not match the actual audio sound
by on Dec 17, 2009 at 3:16:12 pm

Andrei, I looked through all these posts and did not see any reference to the actual format, sample rate and bit depth of the problematic files. Can you provide this info? Sorry if I missed it.

Cheers,
Stace

Apple Certified Trainer


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Andrei BocharnikovRe: waveform do not match the actual audio sound
by on Dec 17, 2009 at 4:50:26 pm

[Stace Carter] "Can you provide this info? Sorry if I missed it. "

You did not missed it, Stace. I did not mention it in my posts... sorry.

Project is DVCPRO HD 720p50 with 50 fps timebase. Settings for the sound is 48/24 because all the files i get from sound guys are 24 bit.

Other sounds on timeline are different format and bitrate but no other files has this problem but just this one with latest narration i got 2 day ago. Documentary is 50 minutes long.

-- 4 video tracks
-- 6 audio track for spoken word,
-- 10 next audio tracks for live sounds, sfx and foley,
-- last 6 tracks for movie score mixing



MacPro Dual Quad 2.8 GHz, 4 GB DDR2 SDRAM, Leopard 10.5.8, QT 7.6.4, FCS3


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Andrei BocharnikovRe: waveform do not match the actual audio sound
by on Dec 17, 2009 at 5:11:05 pm

Matt thank you for the tips... I did check the format in items properties menu exactly same way as u recommended. format is wav 48/24/140.6 K/sec

I did trying to convert wavs to aiff and it did not work either. exactly same delay.

I did also changing settings of the timeline from 24 bit to 16... deleted all waveforms, removed all audio renders with resrtarted FCP and... problem is still there.

i am cursed...



MacPro Dual Quad 2.8 GHz, 4 GB DDR2 SDRAM, Leopard 10.5.8, QT 7.6.4, FCS3


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Rike RodegroRe: waveform do not match the actual audio sound
by on Dec 17, 2009 at 3:39:42 pm

I had a similarly freaky sound problem in FCP the other day. It involved sound drifting out of sync and waveforms not matching actual sound.

Although the symptom description doesn't cover the waveform poblem this helped:

http://support.apple.com/kb/TS1256

Symptoms
Imported audio-only files in a sequence with PAL video may drift out of sync in some cases.

Products Affected
Final Cut Pro
Resolution
If this occurs, try the following steps to resolve the issue:

Delete the audio file(s) from your sequence in the Timeline and also from the Browser.
Choose Final Cut Pro > Easy Setup.
Choose PAL from the Format pop-up menu.
Choose a frame rate (usually 25.00 fps) from the Rate pop-up menu, and a media format that matches your source video from the Use pop-up menu.
Click Setup.
Choose File > Save Project.
Choose Final Cut Pro > Quit Final Cut Pro.
Open Final Cut Pro and your project again, and re-import the audio file(s).
Edit the audio back into the Timeline.
The audio should now stay in tight sync respective to the video in the Timeline.

Additional Information
This issue can arise if you import audio files while the default sequence setting is an NTSC-related frame rate (such as 29.97, 59.94 and 23.98). Setting the preset to a PAL rate and restarting Final Cut Pro should allow newly-imported audio files to conform to PAL timing.


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Andrei BocharnikovRe: waveform do not match the actual audio sound
by on Dec 17, 2009 at 5:33:40 pm

Rike,

- removed file from the timeline and browser.
- in easy setup i selected HD as FORMAT, 50 fps as RATE and DVCPRO HD 720p50 as USE
- pressed SETUP, then saved the project and QUIT FCP.
- opened FCP again, opened the project file and reimported audio with drag and drop from the finder to FCP browser.
- dropped the audio to timeline

... and it WORKS!!!

thank you very much... you saved my neck.

for me from the first look the instructions were irrelevant to the problem because i have audio without video associated and PAL or NTSC or framerate do not so important. But i just surrendered to the instructions and adjusted it to my project settings and it helped ... believe me or not :)

MacPro Dual Quad 2.8 GHz, 4 GB DDR2 SDRAM, Leopard 10.5.8, QT 7.6.4, FCS3


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Matt LyonRe: waveform do not match the actual audio sound
by on Dec 17, 2009 at 6:16:22 pm

That's awesome Andrei, glad you sorted it out!

Rike's tip is a good one to keep in your back pocket. There are many cases where Final Cut will change the way it interprets media based on the default sequence setting you have selected at the time you import the files. Even though audio files don't really have frame rates per se, Final Cut seems to pseudo-assign them one at time of import.

If you really want to geek out, export an xml of the timeline. Each audio clip has two attributes, "NTSC" and "TIMEBASE" that can get set improperly:

<ntsc>"TRUE"</ntsc> ---- can be set to TRUE or FALSE
<timebase>"24"</timebase> ------ I'm not sure what all the permutations of this one are

So my hunch is your clips initially had either or both of these attributes set improperly when you first imported. Following the steps in Rike's post is the surest (and maybe only) way to flush FCP's memory and re-import the files with the right attributes.

This is also true of still frames, which can lead to headaches if the frame rate of the still image doesn't match the frame rate of your timeline.

So sorry for the information overload :-) I'm hoping this post might help someone in the future, because I see this issue come up a lot!
best,

Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto


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Andrei BocharnikovRe: waveform do not match the actual audio sound
by on Dec 17, 2009 at 6:28:54 pm

[Matt Lyon] "So sorry for the information overload :-)"

I prefer overload of information then luck of it :o)

thank you all to give your inputs to save me. I really appreciate it!

MacPro Dual Quad 2.8 GHz, 4 GB DDR2 SDRAM, Leopard 10.5.8, QT 7.6.4, FCS3


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Wes DayRe: waveform do not match the actual audio sound
by on Dec 18, 2009 at 9:55:34 pm

I got Final Cut Express and Im experiencing simular problems.
All the sequences Ive edited so far are great except for this one.
The audio and video are synced. The audio waveform and audio signal just dont match. It seems that the audio is faster than the waveform.


wes day


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trevor bajusRe: waveform do not match the actual audio sound
by on Apr 6, 2010 at 2:00:04 pm

"
- removed file from the timeline and browser.
- in easy setup i selected HD as FORMAT, 50 fps as RATE and DVCPRO HD 720p50 as USE
- pressed SETUP, then saved the project and QUIT FCP.
- opened FCP again, opened the project file and reimported audio with drag and drop from the finder to FCP browser.
- dropped the audio to timeline "


How did you have it set up the first time? Was the problem that your Easy Setup did not match your source footage, and when you made your first cut, you had it change the sequence settings?

I'm editing a small concert that was shot with several different formats, including HDV, NTSC, and 640x480 point and shoot.

It's bananas.

I thought that syncing would not be that big of a deal, as there are frequent quiet parts where there's basically nothing but drums (when the band is playing, the automatic audio gain on the various cameras compresses the audio so that transients are hard to find).

However, the video and audio tends to drift significantly after only a minute or so.

So, I'm having 2 problems, really:

1) how do I get FCP to accurately draw the waveforms (seems like this should, you know, just work, but...) for multiple formats in the same timeline.

2) how do I get them all to stay in sync for more than a minute at a time?

Do I really need to render all of the files out to be the same size as the largest file, then reimport and crop? Seems like that would take up an unnecessary amount of space, especially for a long format project like this one.

It would, however, be preferable to syncing 4-5 cameras every minute or so.

Thanks!


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Matt LyonRe: waveform do not match the actual audio sound
by on Apr 6, 2010 at 6:08:05 pm

Hi Trevor, you'll probably get more responses if you start a new thread, since this one is pretty old.

But that being said the most surefire way to get everything to work more predictably is to convert your footage to one common format. But you need to post more info about your footage formats and frame rates. Certain footage, like the point-and-shoot material, may never stay in sync with the rest of the material, just due to the nature of the camera.

Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto


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Ed RiewRe: waveform do not match the actual audio sound
by on Jun 14, 2010 at 10:20:39 pm

I just tried this technique on some troublesome footage that was 1080i24psf. My Easy Setup was set to 1080p23.98 ProRes, but didn't think it was affecting this current project. Turned out it was. Worked great. Thanks!


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mohan Patilwaveform missmatch and out of sync problame
by on Apr 23, 2012 at 12:12:21 pm

Hi, I have same audio sync problame
my project properties are
sequence seatings : 1920*1080 apple proress LT, 23.98 fps, square pix, 16:9

for audio dubbing they demanded video at 24 Frame Rate so i rendered this video at 24fps and i given them. Now the final dubbing audio which they have given is accourding to this 24fps video but my timeline
is 23.98 so audio is not syncking. what should i do now.

and audio is also not exactly as waveforms its missmatche
please help

Blacklinus,India


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Ty FordRe: waveform do not match the actual audio sound
by on Jun 23, 2010 at 11:41:38 am

Andrei,


OK, but my project is not HD, 50fps or 720p50. After doing the below, can I reset to my miniDV settings?

Regards,

Ty Ford



[Andrei Bocharnikov] "Rike,

- removed file from the timeline and browser.
- in easy setup i selected HD as FORMAT, 50 fps as RATE and DVCPRO HD 720p50 as USE
- pressed SETUP, then saved the project and QUIT FCP.
- opened FCP again, opened the project file and reimported audio with drag and drop from the finder to FCP browser.
- dropped the audio to timeline

... and it WORKS!!!

thank you very much... you saved my neck.

for me from the first look the instructions were irrelevant to the problem because i have audio without video associated and PAL or NTSC or framerate do not so important. But i just surrendered to the instructions and adjusted it to my project settings and it helped ... believe me or not :)
"




Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






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Andrei BocharnikovRe: waveform do not match the actual audio sound
by on Jun 23, 2010 at 1:24:04 pm

Ty,

yes. you just have to setup it according the settings of your project. I think would be better if you follow the instructions in Rike's post. He has also one link to the original article at apple's site.

let us know if it works for you too,
Andrei

MacPro Dual Quad 2.8 GHz, 4 GB DDR2 SDRAM, Leopard 10.5.8, QT 7.6.6, FCS3


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Ty FordRe: waveform do not match the actual audio sound
by on Jun 22, 2010 at 3:51:52 pm

Hello Adrei,

Did you ever find a solution for the "waveform doesn't match the audio" problem?

Regards,

Ty

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






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cowcowcowcowcow
Andrei BocharnikovRe: waveform do not match the actual audio sound
by on Jun 23, 2010 at 8:38:42 am

Hi Ty,

yes I was able to fix the problem following the trick posted to this thread by Rike Rodegro (on Dec 17, 2009 at 5:39:42 pm) and in the next post by me you can see what exactly I did in my case to solve the problem.



MacPro Dual Quad 2.8 GHz, 4 GB DDR2 SDRAM, Leopard 10.5.8, QT 7.6.6, FCS3


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devon leesleyRe: waveform do not match the actual audio sound
by on Sep 5, 2010 at 4:09:34 am

My problem is this. All is in alignment on the timeline. When I burn to a dual layer dvd, it goes out of alignment by a hair or two 3 quarters of the way in. THe movie is almost 2 hours long. Help. Thanks


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