fcp compressor
by scott henderson
on
Sep 11, 2009 at 11:54:27 am
I am new to final cut pro, but have read such great things that my expectations are high,...er were. My standard def NTSC DVDs are coming out very soft.
I start with HD 23.98 in, carried into FCP by Apple pro res HQ.
Export as a Quicktime, imported into Compressor, choose best settings for stand def DVD, submit, and out comes a DVD that looks like bad VHS. I have adjusted the settings, and they make no difference.
I am hoping that someone out there will know of a fundamental problem in my workflow. Otherwise I have a problem with my brand new system, or the output of Compressor is way below standards.
Re: fcp compressor by Dan Monro on Sep 11, 2009 at 3:09:55 pm
Hey Scott,
Compressor makes very good DVDs. Give us a little more info, would you? BAD VHS, like interlacing? softness? bad registration? You're interlacing 23.98, so it's going to look worse, no matter what. And you're compressing it to MPEG4, so its going to look worse, no matter what. What settings did you try changing? How long is the video, can you compress a little less? Have you tried variable bit rate? Multi-pass? Maybe convert it to an uncompressed SD quicktime first....
Just some thoughts.
Dan Monro
FCP, Avid, AfterFX, Atlanta
MacBook Pro 2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 2 GB ram
Mac OS X 10.5.7
GeForce 8600M GT Final Cut Pro 6.0.5 Quicktime 7.6
Re: fcp compressor by scott henderson on Sep 11, 2009 at 3:54:01 pm
Dan, thanks for your response.
Here's the deal. The NTSC DVD is very soft, like the footage was shot with the maco lens knob slightly on. Not out of focus, but not in focus. The HD footage is in focus.
I edit in Apple Pro Rez HQ, export out of FCP as QT, inport the .mov, throw the best settings on, create DVD in Compressor or DVD Studios, and I get sub standard output.
Now I have a 2x 2.26 Ghz Quad four Intel Xeon processor, so I should not be lacking, and It is all the latest software.
Re: fcp compressor by Mike Allen on Sep 11, 2009 at 4:38:04 pm
Scott,
I have to do the down rez in a Pro Res SD sequence to get my DVD's looking good. Compressor does not seem to downconvert very well for me. I export a Ref movie from my HD sequence. I import into a Prores SD sequence with same basic settings. Then I send that export to compressor with good results. I am shooting mostly 1080i 60 HDV on my new system at home and I have to use this process every time.
Funny this is, at my corporate video job by day, I shoot XDcam HD on Sony F350's at 23.98 (most of the time) and I usually do not have problems going from the HD sequence straight to compressor and letting it do the downrez. Not sure why.
Re: fcp compressor by scott henderson on Sep 11, 2009 at 5:41:59 pm
Mike, I apologize for my lack of computer skills. I am an Avid editor who is switching, and until now, have done all my work at a posthouse, so they took care of all the computer stuff.
You mention bring the QTref.mov back into FCP with a standard def setting. Which one exactly do you use. I am getting lost in all these settings.
Re: fcp compressor by Dan Monro on Sep 11, 2009 at 6:35:19 pm
Hey Scott, don't sweat getting lost in all of the settings. I'm an Avid guy, too. As are a lot of us. As my friend says, "the good news is that Final Cut will let you work with any footage from anywhere. The bad news is that Final Cut will let you work with any footage from anywhere."
He also often has to say that FCP is doing exactly what I'm telling it to do. Almost every time I have a problem, its because I have a setting wrong, or a preference, or a file type. The payoff for having an editor as flexible as final cut is that we have to pay a lot more attention to detail than we did in Avid. Its been a hell of a learning curve for me, compressed into about one tenth of the time it took me to learn Avid (so far). Hang in there; its worth it.
Dan Monro
FCP, Avid, AfterFX, Atlanta
MacBook Pro 2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 2 GB ram
Mac OS X 10.5.7
GeForce 8600M GT Final Cut Pro 6.0.5 Quicktime 7.6
Re: fcp compressor by David Roth Weiss on Sep 11, 2009 at 4:59:02 pm
[scott henderson]"I edit in Apple Pro Rez HQ, export out of FCP as QT"
You've said this twice now, but you have not precisely explained how you are exporting out of FCP as QT. There are a zillion codecs and a zillion ways to export, so which of those zillion did you use?
As Dan said earlier, Compressor and DVDSP are very capable of doing quite a good job. I make hundreds of DVDs on average each month and they do not look soft, so there's something not right.
Oh, how are you monitoring FCP? And, how are you monitoring your finished DVDs?
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.
Re: fcp compressor by David Roth Weiss on Sep 11, 2009 at 5:27:38 pm
[Dan Monro]"Nothing like viewing SD on your beautiful HD monitor for a crappy image... "
Yes, that's can possibly be part of the equation...
The other common error I see a lot around here is people without a video card/device editing and viewing entirely on their computer monitor. It looks perfect to them throughout the entire edit. Then, they create a DVD and display that on an interlaced monitor, and they see their video properly for the very first time, only then discovering they've edited the entire time with the interlace set incorrectly.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.
Re: fcp compressor by scott henderson on Sep 12, 2009 at 2:28:27 am
Participants, I thank you all. The mind total working this on one problem gives me great hope for the future. I believe I have reached a conclusion, somewhat.
Compressor hates 23.98. it will only work well with 29.97. If only i knew this before i shot this last project. To overcome this problem, I inserted the 23.98 into a 29.97 timeline, exported as a QT, and sent to the compressor. I tweaked all the adjustments to better, took the bit rates up .3 each, added gamma correction, and other that a few jitters on zooms, it looks just like the HD downconverted Avid edited standard def DVDs I used to make at the production house. (Is that a run on sentence?)
So thank you all, and I dread the next time I am in such an anxious moment that I require your help, but am thrilled to know that you are out there.
Re: fcp compressor by scott henderson on Sep 11, 2009 at 5:38:18 pm
I export from FCP by going to file, then export, then QT movie, and it writes and pops up on the desktop. I put it in compressor, make DVD, and play it back on another computer. Soft.
Re: fcp compressor by Dan Monro on Sep 11, 2009 at 5:00:58 pm
I'm guessing your culprit is still the settings in Compressor. Remember that Compressor presets are just starting points. "Best" quality simply means less compression than "Good" (bear with me; i don't have it open in front of me). If you can lessen the compression and still fit it on a DVD then by all means do it. It depends on the length of your piece. Shorter means less compression to maintain DVD file sizes.
You're dealing with two factors: size compression and frame rate conversion. Both can make your output look soft. 23.98 has no interlacing. NTSC does. Can't be helped.
The size compression is more likely to be what you're referring to. Again, quality has to be sacrificed when you cut the size by, what, 2/3? That doesn't mean you can't back off on the compression as much as possible and sharpen it up a bit.
I like Mike's idea of doing a hi-rez size screen size conversion first - so you lose as little pixel info as possible, then do a compression for file size. You could try that in Quicktime Pro, as well. Get a nice clear 720x486 image first, then make and Mp4 out of that for your DVD.
Play with those settings, too. I'm sure you've got all of the time in the world and no deadlines....
Good luck,
D
Dan Monro
FCP, Avid, AfterFX, Atlanta
MacBook Pro 2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 2 GB ram
Mac OS X 10.5.7
GeForce 8600M GT Final Cut Pro 6.0.5 Quicktime 7.6
What version of Final Cut are you using? I recently noticed really bad aliasing in Compressor 3.5 (which ships with FCP 7) when downconverting, which wasn't present in the previous version.
There are a few threads on this over on the Apple forums. I'm surprised that nothing has shown up about it here yet. Anyway, here's what I'm seeing. Progressive 720p23.98 source material downconverted to 23.98 MPEG-2, using the DVD best settings, additionally I had Frame Controls enabled and resize set to best. Changing the anti-aliasing doesn't seem to do anything. Clean install, by the way.
Mike's suggestion above to downconvert first and then export to DVD sounds like a good one to me. You could try using the "Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) NTSC 48kHz Anamorphic" sequence preset and then just be sure to change the sequence frame rate to 23.98. Then drop your exported clip into that, re-export, and bring that into Compressor.
