deinterlacing in compressor
by Andrew Kennedy
on
Aug 11, 2009 at 1:49:15 am
When I deinterlace my footage with compressor the text looks pixelated what can I do to change that ? When I don't deinterlace the text looks just fine.
Re: deinterlacing in compressor by David Roth Weiss on Aug 11, 2009 at 2:23:34 am
[Andrew Kennedy]"When I deinterlace my footage with compressor the text looks pixelated what can I do to change that ? When I don't deinterlace the text looks just fine. "
Andrew,
This is a very precise business, and we want to help, but we can't help unless people help us to help by providing precise information. You've told us you're trying to deinterlace footage, but you didn't specify the codec involved. And, more importantly, you didn't mention why you were deinterlacing. What's your final destination? Are you deinterlacing for the big screen, i.e. a filmout? Are you deinterlacing for the small screen, i.e. a Web video? Come on, help us to help to help you...
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.
Re: deinterlacing in compressor by Nick Meyers on Aug 11, 2009 at 9:42:15 am
de-interlacing in Compressor is a simple one-stop-shop for de-interlacing.
you are using ONE setting only for your entire project.
in my experience you need to use different de-interlace settings for different sorts of motion,
and for text.
that's why i de-interlace in my FCP timeline.
in general, i prefer to NEST my master sequences
and use the Nattress "Smart De-Interlace"
this is the best within-FCP de-interlacing filter there is, IMO.
applying it to a nest will de-interlace any motion effects and transitions.
i'm particularly sensitive to interlaced / progressive images, and if i see a move that's 50i when the image is 25p, it jars. (i'm using PAL figures, cos that's where i'm from)
HOWEVER, as a side note, i did notice in the BBC specs that they, for one, don't want the mofx and transitions de-interlaced - they want them interlaced,
as they do any title roll, or crawl,
so take my nesting advice with a grain of salt.
after rendering my nest, i'll blade out any sections that need particular de-interlacing attention.
i'll often add a Too-Much-To-Soon "Blend" filter to the text elements (within the nest),
or the FCP "Flicker" filter set to max.
if you're not nesting, this is still a good idea.
it makes the text look nice and solid.
Re: deinterlacing in compressor by Rafael Amador on Aug 11, 2009 at 12:07:28 pm
[Nick Meyers]"applying it to a nest will de-interlace any motion effects and transitions.
i'm particularly sensitive to interlaced / progressive images, and if i see a move that's 50i when the image is 25p, it jars. (i'm using PAL figures, cos that's where i'm from)
HOWEVER, as a side note, i did notice in the BBC specs that they, for one, don't want the mofx and transitions de-interlaced - they want them interlaced, "
I understand the opposite.
For me it doesn't make sense to render something in Interlaced to be de-interlaced after.
IMO the way is to de-interlace the footage and render Progressive.
This is what the BBC want's.
Transitions and many effects will be 'destroyed' when de-interlaced.
Cheers,
rafael
Re: deinterlacing in compressor by Nick Meyers on Aug 11, 2009 at 12:41:36 pm
thanks for the reply, Rafael.
the guy doing our grade convinced me (by showing me examples) that setting his timeline to fields = NONE the results were not as good as De-interlacing.
this was with text, in particular, in mind.
it could be that i was misled.
but simply working in a Progressive timeline wouldn't get the best out of interlaced footage, i'd reckon.
or am i missing something?
regarding the BBC requirements, again i could be wrong.
i was referring to this passage:
"All delivered high definition master tapes must be 1080i25 (whether acquired
1080p25 or 1080i25). Rollers and moving captions must be added in
1080i25 to prevent unacceptable judder."
Re: deinterlacing in compressor by Nick Meyers on Aug 11, 2009 at 5:48:52 pm
ha!
ok, david, so what really is the goal?
most often in my reality, the goal is to change (PAL) video's 50 images a second to 25.
pretty sure i said every thing else i had to say on that in the first post.
Re: deinterlacing in compressor by Rafael Amador on Aug 12, 2009 at 11:43:55 am
[Nick Meyers]"the guy doing our grade convinced me (by showing me examples) that setting his timeline to fields = NONE the results were not as good as De-interlacing. " Both things must go together.
If you de-interlace but you don't set the time-line NONE, the footage is converted to Progressive, but will be rendered as Interlaced. Filters, motion effects and transitions will be applied different to the odd and even lines.
If you set the time-line NONE but you do not de-interlace, the interlaced footage will be rendered Progressive. your progressive frames will keep all the interlacing artifacts/combs.
In both cases you are in troubles.
rafael
[Nick Meyers]"regarding the BBC requirements, again i could be wrong.
i was referring to this passage:
"All delivered high definition master tapes must be 1080i25 (whether acquired
1080p25 or 1080i25). Rollers and moving captions must be added in
1080i25 to prevent unacceptable judder." " Progressive material can be recorded on tape as Interlaced (fp). Instead of being recorded sequentially (1,2,3,4,5..), is recorded "fractionated". First are recorded the odd lines (1,3,5,..) then the even lines (2,4,6,..) or vice-versa. On play the image is read in the proper order: 1,2,3,4,5,..
Dear David, there are no many different Interlacing scenes. Or you hand it properly, or..
Cheers,
rafael
Re: deinterlacing in compressor by Nick Meyers on Aug 12, 2009 at 1:18:32 pm
"Both things must go together. "
yes. thats why i nested the sequence and de-interlaced the nest.
it gives me a lot of control.
if for some reason i wanted a section of the film to have an "interlaced look",
i can control that.
FWIW, i HAVE done that in a show!
but it's rare and in the future i'll try a NONE sequence
in the end, my goal is that i want to see 25 discrete images a second, NOT 50.
whether that's recorded to, or playing off, an interlaced tape format or not doesn't really bother me.
Re: deinterlacing in compressor by Hector berrebi on Aug 15, 2009 at 12:16:31 pm
Hi Rafael
since this thread seams to have been hijacked and the original poster is not around anymore :) i would like to add a question
as i was thinking of how to write it, i threw out this small test. would like to know what you think.
source i worked with is PAL interlaced upper field, captured via decklink component, out of a mini DV source, to prores HQ, canvas window 100%,
Pic 1
seq set to upper. video monitor looks fine in playback, obviously not fine when paused. canvas looks comby on pause or playback on moving objects but sharp on edges. my test focuses on the entire frame and on the white pacifier rim
pic2
seq set to none, no combing but edges seam less sharp, video monitor slightly blurry, less sharpness on playback.
pic3
seq set to none, FCP de-interlace filter set to remove lower, looks better than pic 2 on the edges, but still not as sharp as original material. looks ok on playback. in video monitor, image is blurry and softer on playback and pause.
from the FCP manual "(de-interlace filter) Can be used to remove the upper (odd) or lower (even) field from an interlaced video clip. The remaining fields are interpolated to create a whole image, with marginal softening of the image as a result
obviously, FCP does not do that great of a job de-interlacing, but some sort of soft interpolation of one of the fields.
i tend to work more often with progressive material so i don't encounter these problems on a daily base, but every once i a while they come up and annoy i will try the Nattress "Smart De-Interlace" too and see if it looks better.
any better way you know of in FCP? or did i miss a step and got it wrong?
i should probably try this with better source material too, however,
my though is that there is no way to get perfect results, and that there will always be some price to pay for de-interlace...
pic 4
this is the best i got out of compressor, setting the following, Prores HQ for interlaced material, video settings unchecked interlace,
frame control on, set to output progressive and better deinterlace mode i did try best mode first, it produced many artifacts (i even tried max anti alias) eventually, better mode got a better result than best
pacifier rim looks practically as sharp as original, but there are strange comb artifacts on the hand and around it, and it doesn't look good in playback - more artifacts...
it seams compressor deals better with edges of static objects in the frame than with moving ones and FCP is the opposite.
Re: deinterlacing in compressor by Rafael Amador on Aug 15, 2009 at 4:34:52 pm
Hi hector,
The issue when de-interlacing is not which field you eliminate, but how you rebuild the lost lines.
FC's de-interlacer is probably one of the worst options.
RE-VISION FieldsKit is probably the most complete tool but in FC works only in 8b.
If you work with Proress, your only option (and the most recommendable) is Nattress plugins.
[Hector berrebi]"pic 4
this is the best i got out of compressor, setting the following, Prores HQ for interlaced material, video settings unchecked interlace,
frame control on, set to output progressive and better deinterlace mode i did try best mode first, it produced many artifacts (i even tried max anti alias) eventually, better mode got a better result than best " The Compressor "Motion Adaptive' filter (Better) is more or less the same than the Nattress "Smart De-interlace". Only the picture areas with movement are de-interlaced. There is no point to de-interlace static objects. RE_VISION FieldsKit uses "Motion estimation" too.
The "Motion compensated" option (Best) I think that uses the "Optic Flow" technology. This can complicate things in fast moving areas of the picture creating artifacts.
Try nattress in FC and if you need something more powerful, try FieldKit in AE.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
rafael
Re: deinterlacing in compressor by Rafael Amador on Aug 15, 2009 at 3:48:00 pm
[Nick Meyers]"in the compressor de-interlace filter,
BLUR seems to be a BLEND of the fields. " If you want to de-interlace with Compressor, don't use the default De-interlace filter.
It will yields less quality than when de-interlacing with the "Frame Control".
rafael
