At this point I wish Apple would sell off "Pro" apps

	At this point I wish Apple would sell off "Pro" apps by Paul Harb on Jul 23, 2009 at 6:37:02 pm I am so underwhelmed by the FCS7 upgrade....this is what we have waited over 2 years for? It has become painfully obvious that Apple doesnt care too much about professional editors in contrast to iPhones, iPods, and iTunes. They add these features and TOTALLY ignore anything that pros have been bitching about for years....its to the point that its become insulting. I am heavily invested into FCP personally, but I am really starting for the first time to rethink this investment and get out and move over to the purple monster in my studio. As much as Avid screws up and try and sell overpriced hardware...at least I feel as though they care more about the professional market than Apple does. If Avid were to ever wise up and just sell software and let third parties like AJA, and Blackmagic deal with the hardware, I think FCP would really start to decline. Very frustrating and sad...I feel like I finally realized the girl Ive been dating for years is a waste of time. At least I can color the tabs in my timeline now....wow exciting. Paul Harb Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: At this point I wish Apple would sell off "Pro" apps by eric pautsch on Jul 23, 2009 at 6:45:18 pm ++++ Hand Slapping Forehead ++++ Yes...Please answer Eric's question. And Don't say Blu Ray!!! :) Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: At this point I wish Apple would sell off "Pro" apps by Russell Lasson on Jul 23, 2009 at 6:56:08 pm The core competency of FCS3 is clearly editing and finishing. If you want FCS3 to do more, then look at buying something else. I was hoping for Blu-Ray authoring too, but it didn't happen. So does it mean that I'm going to stop using FCS3? No. There's more reason to edit with FCS3 then there has ever been. -Russ Russell Lasson Colorist/Digital Cinema Specialist Color Mill Salt Lake City, UT www.colormill.net Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: At this point I wish Apple would sell off "Pro" apps by Paul Harb on Jul 23, 2009 at 6:57:40 pm I actually was expecting/hoping for quite a rewrite of the program. Media Manager, a trim mode that actually is worth using, REAL customization of the interface, didnt see anything about it taking advantage of my multicore mac although we will have to see if Snow Leopard changes this....I probably am overreacting, and Im not going to run out and sell of my studio, but I really was expecting more and I do know that Apple had shifted resources away from FCP development some time ago and it shows. Paul Paul Harb-Producer/Director Wrong Beach Multimedia Dual 3.2 GHz Quad/10.5.5/8GIG RAM/FCP 6.0.4/QT 7.5.5 Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: At this point I wish Apple would sell off "Pro" apps by Winston A. Cely on Jul 23, 2009 at 7:33:51 pm They specifically mention an "improved Media Manager" that "optimized to improve media trimming, especially for clips with speed changes, multicam clips, and anamorphic media." That's the one thing I was hoping for, and it looks like they've finally addressed the issues. It may not be perfect yet (hell, no ones had a chance to use it yet) but I'm sure it's better than it was! OK, anything would be better than Media Manager was. I hate to say it, but I think you may be jumping the gun a bit early. I say after some of us guinea pigs jump on board the new Studio, try it out, and if it fails by that point, we all march on Apple's Campus! :D Until then, I think the update/upgrade is pretty exciting (especially at the upgrade price point!) As far as Blu-ray, yeah, yeah, yeah. Disappointing, but whatever. There are other programs out there doing a better job of Blu-ray, and I've yet to have more than one client actually request Blu-ray. Most people are happy with a QuickTime file in the format they need and go from there. FCS does everything I need and from the looks of it, for most people here. I think if I ever really needed to have a Blu-ray disc authored, I'd give that work to Walter. Winston A. Cely Editor/Owner | Della St. Media, LLC Mac Pro 3GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon 4 GB RAM | Final Cut Studio 5.1.4 | Aja Kona LHe "If you can talk brilliantly enough about a subject, you can create the consoling allusion it has been mastered." - Stanley Kubrick Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: At this point I wish Apple would sell off "Pro" apps by Rafael Amador on Jul 24, 2009 at 11:41:22 am [Paul Harb] "didnt see anything about it taking advantage of my multicore mac" Have a look to the "Prores White Papers". The tests shows that the Snow Leopard Pre-release lets FC7 use 8 cores. rafael www.nagavideo.com Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: At this point I wish Apple would sell off "Pro" apps by Arnie Schlissel on Jul 24, 2009 at 3:30:20 pm [Paul Harb] "Media Manager, a trim mode that actually is worth using" I've offlined and onlined dozens of shows, including 35mm film, using FCP. It's my experience that the weak point in FCP's media management is largely the user. Could it be easier? Yes. Could it be more intuitive? Yes. But if the material is properly logged to begin with, the offline to online works. If all of my reels are named "001" and all of my media files are named "Untitled", well, that's not the fault of Apple's programmers. For my dollar trimming in FCP's timeline has always beat Avid's trim window. And I don't know why anyone would use FCP's trim window, when you can trim dynamically in FCP's timeline. Perhaps that just a matter of taste. [Paul Harb] "It has become painfully obvious that Apple doesnt care too much about professional editors in contrast to iPhones, iPods, and iTunes." Apple makes most of it's money on just those products. They will ignore them at the peril of perishing as a company. The fact that they seem to find time to still make pro apps, pro workstations and servers is a testament to their commitment to those markets, even though they don't bring in that much profit. Look at IBM. When the pro workstations & laptops didn't bring in enough profit, they spun the business off to concentrate on the things that do bring in big profits. Look at Compaq. They're now a division of HP because they couldn't earn enough profits to keep afloat. If iPods subsidize the development of FCP, I'm all for Apple putting those out front! Arnie Post production is not an afterthought! http://www.arniepix.com/ Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: At this point I wish Apple would sell off "Pro" apps by Paul Harb on Jul 24, 2009 at 6:25:19 pm Since I work a lot as a feature film editor on Unity with Avid, I know that FCP's media managing and multi user workflow takes quite a bit of complex handholding to get through a film, period...ask any union 1st assistant editor and they will run screaming for the hills if you suggest you want to edit your next with on FCP. Is it being done, yes by a few...but there is a complex number of workarounds to deal with it and it is much more manpower intensive than Avid and Unity. As far as FCP's trim window being better than Avid...Im really not even sure how to respond to that...I love FCP in many ways over Avid, but this is just amazingly false and NOT a matter of taste. Avid's trim mode is probably hands down THE best feature of the Media Composer interface and the one MAJOR advantage over other editing platforms. Honestly my biggest gripes, and this is BECAUSE I like FCP so much, is the trim mode and the goofy workarounds when trying to set up a multiuser/Unity type enviroment. This is due to the way FCP deals with projects and includes everything in that projects file, bins included making it hard to manage people working on the same film and not overwriting each others work...again...can it be done...yes, is it clunky and just a bunch of workarounds due to the way FCP creates projects, YES....I have a friend who is actually quite a big feature film editor and one of the few that always uses FCP for films, but it is a lot of extra work for the assistants which is why they freak out when you suggest FCP for multiuser film work. Turning over a film with FCP can be a nightmare. Either way I still use both FCP and Avid throughout the year, but I just wish I could really fight for FCP in the feature world, but knowing the headaches on the backend during turnover I wont stick my neck out at this point for it until they figure out a better way, which really means a rewrite of the program. Paul Harb Paul Harb-Producer/Director Wrong Beach Multimedia Dual 3.2 GHz Quad/10.5.5/8GIG RAM/FCP 6.0.4/QT 7.5.5 Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: At this point I wish Apple would sell off "Pro" apps by Russell Lasson on Jul 23, 2009 at 6:51:07 pm While I do wish that the FCP upgrade had more features, I think you're over reacting a little. FCP is a great product and continues to get better. I don't think there is much that they could add to it that would help me become a more creative editor. There are some things that I'd like to see change, but I quite excited about how the new update is going to completely change our workflows. Really, this update has moved FCP to being a more professional grade application than any other update in the past. They've even passed AVID with ProRes4444. -Russ Russell Lasson Colorist/Digital Cinema Specialist Color Mill Salt Lake City, UT www.colormill.net Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: At this point I wish Apple would sell off "Pro" apps by Shane Ross on Jul 23, 2009 at 6:56:49 pm I am a professional editor and I don't use Blu-Ray. Does Avid author BluRay? Adobe does, so if you need that, get that. My rule has been and always will be "get the application that does what you need." At one point Avid did all I needed...then it didn't. FCP did. So I switched to FCP. But then on some jobs I need that Avid does, so I use Avid. I for one think this is a great update that addresses most of my requests and needs. If you can say specifically what is missing and how it is NOT addressing the professional world I will be all ears too. Shane GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it. Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: At this point I wish Apple would sell off "Pro" apps by eric pautsch on Jul 23, 2009 at 6:58:14 pm Chris Do you want to take a guess how much money and time it would take to develop a BD authoring tool from scratch? Very few clients care about Blu Ray on the grander scale. Your clients may want to very badly....why are you waiting for Apple? There are several available options - even FREE!!! FCP is a GREAT editing system....period! Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: At this point I wish Apple would sell off "Pro" apps by Andrew Kimery on Jul 23, 2009 at 8:03:36 pm I don't think Apple should sell off the ProApps if for no other reason than that Apple sells it's software ridiculously cheap. I mean, how many companies can take an app like Final Touch 2k (aka Color) that retailed for $25k, do some tweaks, and include it in a software bundle at no extra charge? I honestly believe we'll get a from-the-ground-up rewrite of FCP after Snow Leopard is done. I was just surprised Apple released a new version of the suite before then. But I guess Apple felt they couldn't wait for SL since the suite was already more than two years old. That's also why I think the price dropped too. -A 3.2GHz 8-core, FCP 6.0.4, 10.5.5 Blackmagic Multibridge Eclipse (6.8.1) Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: At this point I wish Apple would sell off "Pro" apps by Winston A. Cely on Jul 23, 2009 at 8:18:38 pm As someone who had a client on the opposite coast iChat Theater integration is ground breaking. Background rendering is terrific as well, and Motion is to the point were the only thing I know I'll need is 3D lettering. Kinda wish that was in this one, but no worries. Winston A. Cely Editor/Owner | Della St. Media, LLC Mac Pro 3GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon 4 GB RAM | Final Cut Studio 5.1.4 | Aja Kona LHe "If you can talk brilliantly enough about a subject, you can create the consoling allusion it has been mastered." - Stanley Kubrick Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: At this point I wish Apple would sell off "Pro" apps by Michael Sacci on Jul 23, 2009 at 8:21:59 pm FCP has been on a 2 year cycle for several releases now, the only difference way we saw it months before it shipped. FCs2 showed at NAB 07 but didn't ship for another month. How many apps get a total rewrite? If FCS gets one look for it no sooner than 2 years. Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: At this point I wish Apple would sell off "Pro" apps by Andrew Kimery on Jul 23, 2009 at 8:56:33 pm [Michael Sacci] "FCP has been on a 2 year cycle for several releases now, the only difference way we saw it months before it shipped. FCs2 showed at NAB 07 but didn't ship for another month. FCP 2 thru 5 saw updates every year (including the big, free .5 update FCP 4 received) so it's not like it would be unprecedented to get another significant update in 2010. Honestly, if the updates we got today are the only significant updates we get until 2011 that's pretty disappointing, IMO. I mean, should it really take Apple four years to release v2.0 of Color? How many apps get a total rewrite? If FCS gets one look for it no sooner than 2 years. " How many apps are the corner stone of the suite and based on code from 1998? ;) -A 3.2GHz 8-core, FCP 6.0.4, 10.5.5 Blackmagic Multibridge Eclipse (6.8.1) Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: At this point I wish Apple would sell off "Pro" apps by Philip Owens on Jul 23, 2009 at 11:31:56 pm I think we can safely assume that Snow Leopard will make a very significant difference to the performance of all these apps. Apple have always said that multi-core performance optimisation was one of the key tasks for SL, and early leaks from the SL tests (poke about the net) suggest that all CPU's are very maximally used. If that's the case, you might easily see at least double your current performance on multi-CPU (Intel) systems, just by upgrading the OS (for the paltry sum of $29) -and who knows how much more performance will be there, given that FCP7 is Open CL-aware, and will presumably be shoving a hell of a lot lot of work out to the GPU. I think the really important question is - has the codebase been completely updated to Cocoa? If so, this release will mark a really important foundation for future development that they have probably been unable to achieve in the past, what with them supporting both Cocoa and Carbon code, and Intel and PPC CPU's. Once liberated to focus only on one path, I think the next releases are going to have very significant technological leaps. Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: At this point I wish Apple would sell off "Pro" apps by Elijah Lynn on Jul 24, 2009 at 12:08:44 am You make a very god case! I gave you 5 cows! Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: At this point I wish Apple would sell off "Pro" apps by Andy Mees on Jul 25, 2009 at 2:42:36 pm >and who knows how much more performance will be there, given that FCP7 is Open CL-aware Open CL aware ... Is this something we now know for a fact Philip? Apologies, been scanning so much info I've missed this tidbit. Do you have a link? Cheers Andy Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: At this point I wish Apple would sell off "Pro" apps by Andrew Keil on Jul 24, 2009 at 1:10:51 pm One thing I am bitterly disappointed about is the lack of a real search function within FCP. It's already there in Soundtrack and Motion so why it hasn't made it into FCP is anyone's guess. A search field in the browser, so you can search footage and effects quickly and easily. Create smart bins to take a lot of leg work out of project management. Who wouldn't have found it useful to have bins automatically created for images, for the last import you made, for everything that was used in a particular sequence? That would be an incredible improvement. I mean the functionality is in the finder, why can't it find it's way into the file management of FCP? The way I look at it, this is a point release, and anybody hoping for a re-write after snow leopard is kidding themselves I think, this is it for the next two years at least and Apple have left a hell of a lot out that really should be there. It is not sour grapes to ask that they provide a compelling solution rather than cursory upgrade, that labels bug fixes as features (I mean come on saying "hey media manager now works like it's supposed to" is not a feature) Nope, count me among the very disappointed, we have every right to expect a lot more from Apple, this is still an expensive software suite regardless of the value that it gives, and the last two updates are not enough. They are neglecting a very important market and it's just not good enough because we know they can do a lot better than this. FCS as it stands is fragmented and uneven, it needed a big overhaul and we didn't get it. Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: At this point I wish Apple would sell off "Pro" apps by Winston A. Cely on Jul 24, 2009 at 6:11:56 pm The problems I encountered with Media Manager were always due to the clips in the timeline being modified, specifically speed changes. If I had one clip like that I'd end up getting a mangled timeline. The thing is, I haven't used or even needed to use Media Manager since FCP4. Every project is captured at native resolution, edited that way, and unless there are major color correction issues, we give the dub house a QuickTime file in the native resolution to bring down to broadcast legal levels and dubbed to tape. This wouldn't work for everyone right now, but with new ProRes codecs coming out, bigger, faster drives getting cheaper and easier to transport, there's quickly going to be no need to "media manage" your footage in the near future. Capture it once to a drive and it lives there. You'll just pop the drive out and take it to someone to color correct, or take a clone to the dub-house to go directly to tape. Seems to me like Apple is doing the same thing they always do, and that's force us to look to the future. Is it annoying as hell? F****ng-A it is, but it's also a good swift kick in the balls to keep us moving forward instead of stagnating on old ideas about what's efficient or needed. Winston A. Cely Editor/Owner | Della St. Media, LLC Mac Pro 3GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon 4 GB RAM | Final Cut Studio 5.1.4 | Aja Kona LHe "If you can talk brilliantly enough about a subject, you can create the consoling allusion it has been mastered." - Stanley Kubrick Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: At this point I wish Apple would sell off "Pro" apps by Winston A. Cely on Jul 25, 2009 at 2:04:31 pm My feeling is that if each project has it's own drive, there's no need to media manage. Even when it come to archiving the project, really all it comes down to is properly storing your drive and nothing else. If your project fits fine on a drive then there's no need to dump any footage. Besides, in he future there may be a use for the footage you didn't use at first. If you wanted to, you could always create an archive drive of finished projects by just exporting out self-contained QT files. Winston A. Cely Editor/Owner | Della St. Media, LLC Mac Pro 3GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon 4 GB RAM | Final Cut Studio 5.1.4 | Aja Kona LHe "If you can talk brilliantly enough about a subject, you can create the consoling allusion it has been mastered." - Stanley Kubrick Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: At this point I wish Apple would sell off "Pro" apps by Winston A. Cely on Jul 26, 2009 at 10:07:57 pm In most cases, they go on the shelf instead of the tapes, which now get stored out of site. I admit our situation is unique, but it seems like a good solution for many instances just not all, for sure! :) Winston A. Cely Editor/Owner | Della St. Media, LLC Mac Pro 3GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon 4 GB RAM | Final Cut Studio 5.1.4 | Aja Kona LHe "If you can talk brilliantly enough about a subject, you can create the consoling allusion it has been mastered." - Stanley Kubrick Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: At this point I wish Apple would sell off "Pro" apps by Dennis Radeke on Jul 26, 2009 at 10:33:42 am "It's the reason why Adobe products are still not 64 bit in Mac, but they are in PC." Most Adobe products are not 64 bit native on either platform. There are a couple of exceptions however: Photoshop is 64 bit native on Windows Lightroom is 64 bit native on either platform (cocoa development on Mac from the start) Premiere Pro and After Effects take advantage of 64bit memory addressing on EITHER platform. This means that not only are both applications able to address all of your CPU cores, but you can address up to 3.5GB of RAM per core. In my opinion, this is the single biggest advantage of a 64bit OS. I blogged on this some time ago if you're interested. http://blogs.adobe.com/genesisproject/2009/03/64_bit_os_and_adobe_products.... Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index