Video Card for MAC when editing RED footage in FCP
by Chris Woods
on
Mar 26, 2009 at 10:17:59 pm
Just wondering if you need a video card, like the Kona 3 or others, for editing footage from the RED in FCP. I'll be working with the footage for the first time in a couple of days and I was told that you need a card to edit in Hi-res and also edit in Low-res without rendering. I heard without it you can only edit with Low-res, but you have to render and you can view the Hi-res files at all in FCP. But, I also heard you only need a card if you want to play back on a monitor. Just wondering which one is true or not. I want to have an easy workflow for this project. If anyone can help me that would be great. Thanks.
Re: Video Card for MAC when editing RED footage in FCP by Michael Gissing on Mar 26, 2009 at 11:32:08 pm
If you are editing an HD project then you will need a card (AJA, Decklink etc) to view on an external monitor, which also will need to be HD.
I wouldn't want to edit any HD format, particularly RED without a decent external monitor so I would say yes to card/monitor. However, FCP will let you edit without a card.
If you're going to try to edit with the RED proxy files, then you'll most likely need to change you're RT quality settings to medium or low. I suggest using a program like REDRushes or ClipFinder to export offline files to edit with, as I don't completely trust editing with the proxy files. This will allow you to edit with files that are much more edit friendly and at the full quality of the codec you choose instead of editing at low quality with the proxy files.
Also, the Kona 3 doesn't add the functionality of being able to playback a RED proxy files at high quality. That has more to do with your machine than anything else.
-Russ
Russell Lasson
Universal Post
Ridgeline Digital Cinema Mastering
Salt Lake City, UT
Re: Video Card for MAC when editing RED footage in FCP by Alex Elkins on Mar 27, 2009 at 5:11:19 pm
Chris,
The simple answer is that you don't need a video card to edit RED. It works in the same way as when you edit any other project. Of course, if you want to view on a broadcast monitor then you will indeed need a video card.
There are so many different ways to work with RED in post that you really need to have a clear idea as to how you will go about it before you start. This appears to be what you're doing, so good on you for not diving in blindly. The advice that most people give, and I agree, is to work backwards - i.e. how will this be delivered? Next, determine how you want/need to edit - offline/online or online throughout? There are advantages and disadvantages to both.
As Russell mentioned, have a read of the RED Final Cut Studio Whitepaper. It's very informative.
Re: Video Card for MAC when editing RED footage in FCP by gary adcock on Mar 27, 2009 at 5:52:00 pm
[Alex Elkins]"The simple answer is that you don't need a video card to edit RED. It works in the same way as when you edit any other project. Of course, if you want to view on a broadcast monitor then you will indeed need a video card. "
Alex
I take the exact opposite view. Since RED is not a camera in the same manner as DV or HDV and is really and truly overkill for the web I see RED solely as a Professional tool.
Professional to me means that at some point the user is going to have to deliver content to a client in an industry standard and right now that still means that certain rules for Broadcast need to be followed.
Your unless your content is solely for Web delivery will need to pass standards to be broadcast, and to do that you will need to see and grade the footage on a professional monitor and deliver on HDCamSR or D5 tape. Even if you are only planning for an SD DVD you will still have to make sure that your footage conforms to the specifications for your part of the world.
RED recommends Kona cards on their website to handle your content.
Laptop configurations RED recommends ONLY 1K proxies for editing,
Final Cut Currently has a 2K frame size limitation, but how are you going to view that on a display?
if you are planning to use RED's R3D content, be prepared,as the camera is not the only new thing you will need. I tell everyone that will listen that your computer needs to be the same age as your Red Camera just to be able to survive and newer to take control of the process.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php
Re: Video Card for MAC when editing RED footage in FCP by Alex Elkins on Mar 27, 2009 at 6:01:33 pm
[gary adcock]"truly overkill for the web I see RED solely as a Professional tool.
Professional to me means that at some point the user is going to have to deliver content to a client in an industry standard and right now that still means that certain rules for Broadcast need to be followed."
Hi Gary,
That's an very legitimate point. Nobody using the RED is likely to be using it in a situation where they wouldn't need to be monitoring and outputting to professional standards. The fact that you can work without monitoring doesn't mean you do!
Re: Video Card for MAC when editing RED footage in FCP by Chris Woods on Mar 27, 2009 at 6:12:55 pm
Hey guys,
Thank you so much for your responses. They've been very helpful. I have the White paper from the RED site. I looked it over a bit and I plan to use it when I start editing. The project that I'm working on, I'm not shooting and the RED footage is being loaded up in RAID drives. I plan on doing some test hopefully tomorrow to see what I'm getting into to. If you know if there's any video tutorials or step by step instructions on this site as well just let me know. It's good to know about the card. At first I won't have a monitor to view the footage, other than the computer monitor of course. Not sure if I'll hook up a monitor down the road, but for now I just want to test how to get the footage in FCP, how edit, and how to export it say to a QT, FCP file or even a DVD. Thanks again and I'm sure I'll have more questions as I continue this project.
Re: Video Card for MAC when editing RED footage in FCP by Ben Holmes on Mar 28, 2009 at 1:21:06 pm
[Chris Woods]"Not sure if I'll hook up a monitor down the road"
Then, IMHO, I'm not sure you should be editing RED footage for profit. Whatever the end delivery format, you should have a proper monitor to view this on. FCP DOES NOT show you a proper quality preview in the canvas.
I think most people get so bored of saying this on here, they don't bother. Just because new HD formats do not require a card to capture footage, doesn't mean you shouldn't use one to view it. What happens if you convert it to an interlaced format for delivery? How can you colour correct (essential with RED footage)?
Even a properly calibrated HDMI monitor/TV would be better than nothing, with something like the BM Intensity card (although I wouldn't go this route myself, perhaps it will encourage others to take the next step). Otherwise you could use the Matrox MXO with a computer monitor.
If I was the person who paid to have RED footage shot on $60,000 worth of equipment, I would expect this spec at a minimum.
I know you will think me a grouch and curmudgeon for even saying this - but I'm afraid it's yet another step towards the 'don't know, don't care' school of FCP editing, which does the entire industry a disservice.
Edit Out Ltd
----------------------------
FCP Editor/Trainer/System Consultant
EVS/VT Supervisor for live broadcast
RED camera transfer/post
Independent Director/Producer
Re: Video Card for MAC when editing RED footage in FCP by Chris Woods on Mar 28, 2009 at 5:13:38 pm
Good point on using a monitor with RED footage. I do agree with you. I always check on a NTSC monitor after I cut a rough draft to see how it looks. Right now I don't have an HD monitor, but I believe the person that will be doing the color correcting for this project will have one. I believe I am getting the video card, just have to find the best one at a good price. I heard blackmagic is all right. Any thoughts on that card? Thanks.
Re: Video Card for MAC when editing RED footage in FCP by gary adcock on Mar 29, 2009 at 4:22:51 pm
[Chris Woods]"I believe I am getting the video card, just have to find the best one at a good price. I heard blackmagic is all right. Any thoughts on that card? "
Red recommends Kona Cards for a reason.
AJA's tools handle most of the processes needed in hardware- up, down and cross conversion are always done in hardware everytime. Realtime processing and scaling to SMPTE standard rasters of Redcode content in hardware. True 2K handling capabilities with realtime 1080 HD viewing. Correct (optional) handling of RED content as True P in 1080 vs handling content output as PsF.( they may have this fixed however)
All of the BMD cards still rely on a fair amount of CPU processing to handle many of the tasks on the card, and somethings like cross-conversion from 720 x1080 they cannot do without rendering.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php
Re: Video Card for MAC when editing RED footage in FCP by Mario Rubertis on Mar 29, 2009 at 6:44:01 pm
[Gary Adcock]<i>" Red recommends Kona Cards for a reason.
AJA's tools handle most of the processes needed in hardware- up, down and cross conversion are always done in hardware everytime."
...."All of the BMD cards still rely on a fair amount of CPU processing to handle many of the tasks on the card, and somethings like cross-conversion from 720 x1080 they cannot do without rendering."
Gary,
I don't know if RED recommends Matrox MXO2 or not but it seems to me that it would be able to do the trick. Here is my theory... Take in the RED material via the Reddisc (or Red Drive I`m not quite sure what they call it) Seeing that FCP can eidt the 1K or 2K files all I would need to do is hook up my MXO2 to my MBP and monitor via HDMI in 1080 or in Chris's case use the MXO2 hardware downscaler and view it on his SD monitor... either way I think Chris has another choice with the MXO2.
