XDCAM and Chroma key
by tel jaba
on
Mar 6, 2009 at 4:12:58 pm
hey guys
anyone has experience with Chroma keying XDCAM material?
we are considering buying the EX3 for a project that will be chroma key in most of it and in the chroma key will be video that is going to be created in Motion
Re: XDCAM and Chroma key by walter biscardi on Mar 6, 2009 at 4:20:18 pm
[tel jaba]"anyone has experience with Chroma keying XDCAM material? "
Yes and I would not wish that on anyone. 35mbps and MPEG-2 compression = terrible format for chroma key. It was utterly painful working on a chroma key project shot on the EX 1 and 3. They look amazing when taking the image out of the HD-SDI live, but after it's been recorded to the card, it's terrible.
[tel jaba]"any idea? advices? "
Get one of the new Panasonic AVC-Intra codec cameras and shoot on that instead.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.
Re: XDCAM and Chroma key by bouke vahl on Mar 6, 2009 at 4:28:37 pm
Or ingest the cams SDI output straight into FCP using the best codec you have available.
I fully agree with Walter. Once had to do a 30 second clip, took me an hour to get half decent results...
Bouke
http://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pro's
Re: XDCAM and Chroma key by tel jaba on Mar 6, 2009 at 4:47:51 pm
any other Sony camera you could suggest?
what if we this is the only option (camera)?!!! should we just avoid the Chroma key and come up with another idea?
Re: XDCAM and Chroma key by walter biscardi on Mar 6, 2009 at 5:00:47 pm
[tel jaba]"any other Sony camera you could suggest? "
HDCAM.
[tel jaba]"what if we this is the only option (camera)?!!! should we just avoid the Chroma key and come up with another idea? "
If all you have is this camera, take an FCP system to the set and capture straight out of the HD-SDI output of the camera to ProRes in your FCP system.
If that's not possible, drop the Chroma Key altogether.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.
Re: XDCAM and Chroma key by Everett Bowes on Jun 26, 2009 at 1:40:26 pm
Two questions... if you don't mind:
1) If you had to choose between the EX3 or Panasonic HVX-200, which would you choose?
2) you suggest having a Mac on set when doing a green screen shoot with the EX3. What are some of the ways to get the video feed into a Mac Book Pro?
• I know you can come out of the EX3 using SDI, but aside from an AJA Ki, what else do you recommend?
• Can I go from the Camera to a Panasonic DVCPro Deck, and from the deck firewire into the MBP?
• Is there a smarter way, or better tech solution for this?
Re: XDCAM and Chroma key by walter biscardi on Jun 26, 2009 at 1:44:11 pm
[Everett Bowes]"1) If you had to choose between the EX3 or Panasonic HVX-200, which would you choose? "
200 any day. More information in the signal.
[Everett Bowes]"2) you suggest having a Mac on set when doing a green screen shoot with the EX3. What are some of the ways to get the video feed into a Mac Book Pro? "
I wouldn't. I would bring a Mac Pro with an AJA Kona board and a very high speed array to capture at 8 or 10bit Uncompressed HD. You can't do that with a MacBook Pro. You could do ProRes with an Io HD and a fast array.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.
Re: XDCAM and Chroma key by jim diavastes on Jun 5, 2009 at 5:31:23 pm
In FCP using the native XDCAM EX3 format (file transfer/import) (mpeg2) the chroma key does stink - but a great workaround is to play out the clip via the SDI port on the XDCAM and recapture through SDI in (in our Aja Kona Card). Our capture setting is 1080i apple pro-res 422. It's like making silk purse out of a sows ear.
For what ever reason this even far exceeds doing a file conversion to Pro-Res 422 in final cut. I am sure it must have something to do with the Aja Card.
Re: XDCAM and Chroma key by Craig Seeman on Jun 5, 2009 at 5:48:11 pm
[jim diavastes]"In FCP using the native XDCAM EX3 format (file transfer/import) (mpeg2) the chroma key does stink"
I absolutely disagree with this. I've shot 1080p30 and edited EX "native" in FCP and have done "one click" chroma keys (VERY CLEAN) with FCP's chroma keyer. I know of others with similar experience. Certainly FCP chroma keyer is not as good as the specialized 3rd party keyers but it far from "stinks." When shooting progressive with the EX and keying in FCP the keys can be quite clean.
Re: XDCAM and Chroma key by Bouke Vahl on Mar 6, 2009 at 4:47:55 pm
Nope.
It's the compression that will byte you.
So the only way is to ingest straight from the camera.
As Walter pointed out, perhaps i did not made it clear enough...
Connect the cam to the computer and ingest while shooting, avoiding the cards.
Clear?
Bouke
http://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pro's
Re: XDCAM and Chroma key by Bouke Vahl on Mar 6, 2009 at 5:13:12 pm
Tel,
Go do your homework.
MOST HD cams store the stuff in a HIGHLY compressed format.
The 'broadcast' cams do 35 mbit a second. That is about 1/3 of the datarate of a Digibetacam, and a digibeta only shoots 720 x 576.
IOW, they are trying to store 4 times MORE pixels in 1/3 of the space.
That cannot be without some loss, and exactly that loss will make chroma key HELL.
The HDcams that record less compressed are all very expensive.
So, pick your poison.
(and probably now you are going to tell us that the end product will be 320 x 240 Flash files...)
Bouke
http://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pro's
Re: XDCAM and Chroma key by Craig Seeman on Mar 6, 2009 at 7:04:43 pm
I'm not quire sure if others here have actually done chroma keying with XDCAM EX. I have.
It works VERY WELL.
If you shoot progressive the pixels are packed very close together. I used the XDCAM EX codec and shot chroma keys at 1080p. I've gotten very good results on my first click using Final Cut Pro's built in Chroma Keyer.It really keys fine. I'm tempted to upload a source clip for you folks to play with. It really keys well (at least by my standards).
Re: XDCAM and Chroma key by Chris Babbitt on Mar 6, 2009 at 7:33:53 pm
I'll second that, even at 720p. Good lighting is the answer. Also, instead of using the FCP keyer, I use the vKey2f Keyer. It's an fxPlug and costs about $60-$70 as I recall.
Re: XDCAM and Chroma key by Mark Raudonis on Mar 6, 2009 at 10:10:26 pm
Every interview we shoot is greenscreen/XDCAM HD.
We use "Ultimatte: Advantage" and After Effects for our compositing. If you've lit it properly and
shot well, the results are acceptable. Otherwise, you're in for a bag o hurt.
Re: XDCAM and Chroma key by Rafael Amador on Mar 7, 2009 at 1:23:16 am
Hi Tel,
Seems that people in this thread is talking about things that haven't experienced by them self.
The EX-1 makes an INCREDIBLE chroma key.
Last week I recorded some 4 hours interviews with the EX-1.
I started recording ProRess through HD/DS-SDI with the ioHD. We had a problem with the computer so we had to keep recording EX-1 in the SxS.
Great.
Rafael
www.nagavideo.com
(and here some clips for the friends: http://www.vimeo.com/2694745 )
Re: XDCAM and Chroma key by Craig Seeman on Mar 7, 2009 at 1:27:51 am
[Rafael Amador]"Seems that people in this thread is talking about things that haven't experienced by them self.
The EX-1 makes an INCREDIBLE chroma key. "
Yes Rafael. That's why I posted a link to XDCAM EX MOV Green Screen file so people can download and use themselves.
It really really really keys fine. If you don't believe folks download the file I linked to in my post above and give it a try.
Re: XDCAM and Chroma key by Rafael Amador on Mar 7, 2009 at 1:53:02 am
Hi Craig,
Sorry I've open the thread before having my coffee. Just download the clip.
Really clean plate. My interviews look like they were lighted with a candle and still keying really well.
I think that we have to write "The White Papers on The Myth of the Long GOPs".
XDCAM is not RED, but neither DV or HDV.
Rafael
www.nagavideo.com
(and here some clips for the friends: http://www.vimeo.com/2694745 )
