Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist
by Alan Okey
on
Nov 11, 2008 at 11:19:28 pm
What would you like to see in the next (or future) version of FCP?
For the sake of brevity, I'm restricting my wishlist to FCP and not including the other Studio apps.
1. Better text tools
I hate Boris Title3D and the FCP text tools. FCP deserves nothing less than a truly integrated text generator with realtime onscreen previewing for interactive feedback.
2. UI widget overhaul
The UI widgets in FCP are pretty long in the tooth, and were designed at a time in which huge high-res, high-ppi monitors were a rarity. As a result, many UI elements in FCP look tiny. While FCP currently allows you to save your own window layouts, the actual window elements (window buttons, tool palette objects, etc.) are not scalable. The ability to customize the UI color would also be fantastic. Compared to Motion, Soundtrack Pro or Logic Studio, FCP is way behind the curve on this.
3. Media Manager overhaul
'Nuff said.
4. Background rendering
The ability to continue cutting while unrendered elements are processed would be an immense time saver. Smoothcam background processing is a good start, now just expand the concept.
5. Distributed rendering
Logic and Compressor take full advantage of any available CPUs in a cluster. FCP should too.
6. Masking tools
FCP should incorporate all of the masking tools available in Motion - i.e. animatable bezier or B-spline masks and motion tracking. An "8-point Garbage Matte" just doesn't cut it anymore, nor does manually keyframing a matte to follow an object in a shot. Bring FCP into the 21st century already and integrate the new technologies already present in Motion.
7. Keyframe animation overhaul
Round-tripping to Motion just to get still pan & zooms that don't suck is inexcusable. The motion tab should inherit Motion's functionality.
8. Improved speed change behavior
The ability to change clip speed without altering the position of everything else that follows on the same video track would be brilliant - i.e. keep the clip in and out points in the same place on the timeline. Also, adding Shake's optical flow technology for smooth slow motion with interpolated frames would be a much-appreciated addition to the simple frame blending that FCP currently uses.
9. Improved Browser functionality
It would be nice to have more sorting options for files and clips appearing in the browser, i.e. sort by type, sort by file size, sort by date, etc. Infinitely scalable icons would be an improvement over the stock small, medium and large presets. Right-clicking on a clip or file could offer an option to "find clip in timeline" in addition to the current options. Some type of indication whether or not a clip or file is currently being used in any sequences would also be great. DVD Studio Pro has this feature for assets, why not FCP?
Well, this is just a start. I'm sure more ideas will come to me, but I just wanted to get the ball rolling. Join in the fun!
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist...fix bugs b4 new features. by Sean ONeil on Nov 12, 2008 at 3:39:29 am
You're right, I shouldn't have called it destructive. But about the lack of integration, I think your perspective may be off due to being a Final Touch user before Apple bought it. I'm sure if Apple built Color from the ground up like the did Motion and Soundtrack, things would work much differently. But taking an already finished product probably makes it much harder for them to integrate it.
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist...fix bugs b4 new features. by walter biscardi on Nov 12, 2008 at 12:42:47 pm
[Sean ONeil]" I'm sure if Apple built Color from the ground up like the did Motion and Soundtrack, things would work much differently. But taking an already finished product probably makes it much harder for them to integrate it."
Absolutely, it's easy to integrate when you make the software yourself or at least if it's a Mac centric product before you take it over. But a product that wasn't even designed for video grading, the Mac or even Final Cut Pro to begin with, takes a while to make it easier to work with.
I find it interesting that Color essentially has not been updated for about 16 months now. That either means they are stripping away everything they want from the app to make a new filter set for FCP or they are re-working the entire app to make the integration more seamless.
Adobe has definitely set a high bar for integration. Not sure what Apple's response will be.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Sean ONeil on Nov 12, 2008 at 1:13:36 am
[walter biscardi]"What does that mean? Color does not touch the original media."
It's still a destructive workflow because you have no option but to render out new QT media. You can't simply send the metadata back to FCP and relink it (like you can with Motion, Soundtrack and LiveType). The relationship to the original media (and thus the source tapes) is gone.
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Tom Wolsky on Nov 12, 2008 at 1:41:28 am
No sure what you want it to do, send a Color project file to FCP like importing a Motion or LiveType project into FCP, is that what you want? Not sure that's a great solution for this type of thing. It might make editing quite cumbersome.
All the best,
Tom
Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP6," "Basic Training for FCS2" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by walter biscardi on Nov 12, 2008 at 2:08:05 am
[Sean ONeil]"It's still a destructive workflow because you have no option but to render out new QT media. You can't simply send the metadata back to FCP and relink it (like you can with Motion, Soundtrack and LiveType). The relationship to the original media (and thus the source tapes) is gone."
Of course because FCP cannot render everything from Color. Wouldn't want it to. There is simply too much information in Color for FCP to handle. The only way around this is to do away with Color and incorporate some sort of filter in to FCP. That would take away the entire advantage of the application.
I don't consider that destructive editing. The original media is still intact. In fact your clip in Color is still intact. You can change and re-render the Grade 100 times and it will always reconnect back to the rendered clip in your timeline so long as it's the same grade number.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by David Roth Weiss on Nov 12, 2008 at 2:14:44 am
[Sean ONeil]"It's still a destructive workflow because you have no option but to render out new QT media. You can't simply send the metadata back to FCP and relink it (like you can with Motion, Soundtrack and LiveType). The relationship to the original media (and thus the source tapes) is gone."
Sean,
I think what you (and lots of othere) are looking for is the same or similar type of seamless integration that Adobe is now offering. Adobe’s Dynamic Link is a pipeline across their entire suite that automatically passes layered projects back and forth between applications instantly and with a fluidly and seamlessness that FCS2 just can't come close to now.
There's no intermediate rendering, no baking of effects or speed changes, and no loss of timecode linking to original media at any stage. Furthermore, the layers remain intact throughout and can be modified at any time in any or all applications, and elements such as text and/or vector-based objects are preserved as vectors that can be scaled infinitely without any loss of quality.
I'm not suggesting that everyone trade in FCP for Premiere right now, today, however, Apple is going to have create a truly seamless workflow for Color as well as the entire suite much like Adobe has now, otherwise it will soon be left in the dust. Apple simply can't expect its one million users to keep performing inefficient workarounds forever.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by walter biscardi on Nov 12, 2008 at 2:25:07 am
[David Roth Weiss]"Apple is going to have create a truly seamless workflow for Color as well as the entire suite much like Adobe has now, otherwise it will soon be left in the dust. Apple simply can't expect its one million users to keep performing inefficient workarounds forever. "
Of course this leaves out the fact that Color was first created for UNIX by Silicon Color and never even intended for video color grading or the Mac for that matter. It was designed for film and to compete with daVinci with a reasonable $25,000 price tag.
Then it was ported to the Mac with limited support for Quicktime. Now what Apple can do on the back end to suddenly make it talk directly to a video editing application that it was never designed to talk to, and support all the codecs it can use I'm not sure, but I don't expect that it will ever be completely seamless unless Apple completely dumbs down the application.
I don't mind the "inefficient workarounds" for the amazing results I get in Color. The workflow is one reason I still don't understand why Apple included the app for free in Studio 2. It's something that actually requires the end user to really think about their workflow BEFORE they start to edit. Not everyone wants to do that so we get a lot of people who complain it doesn't work like any other App. That's because it not LIKE any other app.
The workflow between Color and FCP is miles ahead of where it was three or four years ago when I started using Final Touch and it's a very easy workflow. The only big area I really want to see addressed in Color is support for more codecs natively.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by David Roth Weiss on Nov 12, 2008 at 5:59:09 am
[walter biscardi]"Of course this leaves out the fact that Color was first created for UNIX by Silicon Color and never even intended for video color grading or the Mac for that matter. It was designed for film and to compete with daVinci with a reasonable $25,000 price tag."
Nope, I'm taking all considerations into account, and I completely disagree with you Walter. There is nothing that can't be done if Apple decides to do it. No one can dispute that Color yields excellent results, and that has made up for its flaws, so far. But I also think that Color, like all apps in FCS, needs to evolve. Apple will be the next Avid if complacency is allowed to rule the day.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Sean ONeil on Nov 12, 2008 at 3:36:14 am
[David Roth Weiss]"There's no intermediate rendering, no baking of effects or speed changes, and no loss of timecode linking to original media at any stage. Furthermore, the layers remain intact throughout and can be modified at any time in any or all applications, and elements such as text and/or vector-based objects are preserved as vectors that can be scaled infinitely without any loss of quality."
I couldn't find the words. Thankfully you found them for me :).
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Tom Wolsky on Nov 12, 2008 at 4:03:04 am
This workflow is great for motion graphics. I'm not sure it's suitable for workflows in an editing process that requires color correction, where the color correction may take place fairly early in the edit workflow rather than at the end. I think it would simply bog down the editing process.
All the best,
Tom
Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP6," "Basic Training for FCS2" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by David Roth Weiss on Nov 12, 2008 at 6:12:44 am
[Tom Wolsky]"This workflow is great for motion graphics. I'm not sure it's suitable for workflows in an editing process that requires color correction, where the color correction may take place fairly early in the edit workflow rather than at the end. I think it would simply bog down the editing process."
Tom,
I understand your case, but the workflow needn't happen in that manner just because it can.
Adobe actually does like to sell the point that dynamic linking enables editors to do lots of things "as you go," instead of at the end, but I'm not a big fan of that approach myself, at least in most instances. But, having completely seamless access to all media and to all layers in every app in the suite all the time seems to be something good to shoot for.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Paul Dickin on Nov 12, 2008 at 12:38:45 pm
Hi
As its been explained to me, Adobe's modus operandi is to integrate the SAME underlying 'video/graphics engine' - with a unified code-case, across all its programs, in all the apps that make up its software suites.
So there's no 'round-trip' workflow ever - all the different applications are just different-functionality user interfaces, used to manipulate the same media assets, with the same underlying common unified-code engine.
So all the work is done in one place. Nothing is 'passed' anywhere.
How cool is that as a future-proof strategy!
Once they've got it all to work properly - Apple and Adobe share the mammoth task of rewriting all the old legacy Carbon code into future-proof Cocoa (+ 64-bit).
Apple haven't just got FCS to do. they've got QuickTime to update as well - though that has to be well underway to get the iPhone working ;-)
90% of the things people are asking for can't happen until FCS's code-base is made ready to allow it to happen.
The crunch question is whether Apple will take on the challenge that Adobe is setting with its Suite integration...
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Martin Baker on Nov 14, 2008 at 12:55:39 pm
Paul, are you saying that this is what Adobe have under the hood of CS4 today?
I've been saying for years that there needs to be a fundamental rethinking about the way that our tools handle media. Everything we do is media on a timeline whether it be a graphics, audio or editing application and we've reached the point where pretty much anything is possible in only software.
So it makes perfect sense to put a common timeline at the heart of the apps and have modules that can access that timeline and make changes to it. Essentially you end up bringing the tools to the timeline rather than the other way round, and that opens up some very interesting possibilities...plus some big challenges of how you keep track of everything.
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Paul Dickin on Nov 14, 2008 at 2:28:42 pm
[Martin Baker]"Paul, are you saying that this is what Adobe have under the hood of CS4 today? " Hi
I'm no expert, and maybe my addition of 2 + 2 = 5 (4 + a whole load of hype), but in part that's sort of the way it was explained to me by the Adobe guys at The Production Show when Premiere Pro CS3 for the Mac was first announced.
A much clearer explanation was given by someone here in a very long 'advantages/disadvantages-of-Premiere Pro' thread in the Discrete Edit*ors forum a year or so back, but I can't link to it as that forum has gone poof, an ex-forum....
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by David Roth Weiss on Nov 14, 2008 at 5:00:43 pm
[Martin Baker]"are you saying that this is what Adobe have under the hood of CS4 today?"
Paul isn't saying it Martin, but I am. It's Adobe's Dynamic Linking. It definitely paves the way toward the future.
[Martin Baker]"So it makes perfect sense to put a common timeline at the heart of the apps and have modules that can access that timeline and make changes to it. Essentially you end up bringing the tools to the timeline rather than the other way round, and that opens up some very interesting possibilities...plus some big challenges of how you keep track of everything."
Adobe has figured out a way to use XML to keep track of things in an almost magical way. Metadata and links between files are retained even after uninstalling and reinstalling the entire the software suite. I discovered ths by accident and found it to be rather amazing.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Paul Dickin on Nov 14, 2008 at 6:01:17 pm
[David Roth Weiss]"Adobe has figured out a way to use XML to keep track of things in an almost magical way." Hi
XML data structures seem to me to be sort of a 'linear' system, and that's fine for the metadata in a linear entity, like a movie file.
It should be embeded in the media assets, fully transportable.
But what an NLE suite's Project File structure should be is non-linear - obviously!! ;-)
A robust non-linear random access database structure.
So far only Avid (and before that Fast) seem to have tried to nail that down - not sure whether the penny's dropped with Adobe and Apple.
Anyway the more of this that gets deep-down integrated into Snow Leopard's Core services - Core Dynamic Link - the better :-)
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by David Roth Weiss on Nov 14, 2008 at 6:18:41 pm
[Paul Dickin]"XML data structures seem to me to be sort of a 'linear' system, and that's fine for the metadata in a linear entity, like a movie file.
It should be embeded in the media assets, fully transportable.
But what an NLE suite's Project File structure should be is non-linear - obviously!! ;-)
A robust non-linear random access database structure."
Paul,
Believe me, I am no expert on this stuff, nor do I play one on TV, but it occurs to me that we have reached levels at which processing power and massive RAM can easily handle the linearity of metadata, such as XML, because it's comprised of a miniscule amount of data that can remain loaded in memory at all times. Isn't that one of beauties of 64-bit and multi-threading?
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Paul Dickin on Nov 14, 2008 at 6:38:26 pm
[David Roth Weiss]"processing power and massive RAM can easily handle..." Hi
Needs a project data 'checksum' in there somewhere as well I feel...
Otherwise we'll forever be trashing preferences, or fishing out autosaved projects :-(
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by walter biscardi on Nov 12, 2008 at 12:44:27 pm
[Tom Wolsky]"I'm not sure it's suitable for workflows in an editing process that requires color correction, where the color correction may take place fairly early in the edit workflow rather than at the end. I think it would simply bog down the editing process. "
That would not be a good workflow. Grading should always be the last thing that happens, along with the sound mix.
One big thing about Color that most people don't realize is that it picks up the 3 Way CC information when you send your timeline to Color. So if you want to do some preliminary grading while you're editing, you can just use the 3 Way and then at the end send your project into Color and your preliminary work will still be there.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Tom Wolsky on Nov 12, 2008 at 1:57:52 pm
How do you grade material that's being sent to Motion or LiveType or being integrated into titling sequences or composited and need to match corresponding material that's not being sent to these applications? When do you grade them?
All the best,
Tom
Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP6," "Basic Training for FCS2" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by walter biscardi on Nov 12, 2008 at 2:04:35 pm
[Tom Wolsky]"How do you grade material that's being sent to Motion or LiveType or being integrated into titling sequences or composited and need to match corresponding material that's not being sent to these applications? When do you grade them?
"
At the end of the process. Since those are generally evolving during the project, I would build rough title sequences and when we have picture lock on those, then I would grade the footage and replace the original media in the projects.
I do this all the time with After Effects as we rarely use Motion except for particle generation and even more rarely LiveType.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Hector berrebi on Dec 2, 2008 at 9:21:51 am
*this was meant for the end of this thread... sorry
strange... no more wishes?
i thought these things worked :)
this list was assembled by me and a few other FCP trainers in our last TTT training a while back (almost a year ago) it was sent to apple... a few things have been mentioned before but heck...
DON'T STOP WISHING :)
practical wishing
1. modify timecode. in the Modify menu there is an option to change TC or switch to AUX TC, when you de-select the check mark FCP will eliminate the master TC, if you re-check the mark, the master TC is zeroed, it also cancels TC in the original media files. i think that on such an important function there should be an extra warning question.
2. Add "Reel name" to sequences export - if one clip is exported it will take it's reel name, if not FCP should ask you for a reel name.
3. dissolve. dissolves and other transitions can be placed ending, starting or centered on cut yet in many cases comes up a need for a-symeric transition (starting 5 frames before ending 20 after the cut) i hate saying this, but the way Avid does custom positioning for transitions is very useful.
4. changing speed on the timeline. speed changes on the timeline are tied to a ripple action that in most cases is not desired, either pushing or pulling the rest of the sequence according to the new duration of the modified clip. even if i work on an higher empty track.
it would be nice to have the option to choose between rippling and overwriting/shortening.
5. go to next edit. only stops at first frame of cuts... opt + go-to-next-edit could stop at last frame of clips on the timeline. extremely useful in reconforming FX shots, and stop-motion animation.
6. keyframes. can't be copied and pasted, multiple selected, moved in groups*, are not dynamic when trimming, collide unpleasantly with transitions and generally tend to be very archaic. it does not have to be Motion keyframes, but it could be so much better.
7. color labeling. more freedom in coloring markers and clips on the timeline (without it affecting my master clips) and more colors.
8. image sequence. FCP should regard and open image sequences like motion
9. When sending to Motion Add the option to place the embedded motion above the original clips instead of replacing.
creative wishing
1. fast lane. it would be great to have the possibility to have a stripe on the timeline window somewhere that when hovered above gives (HUD style) the option to accelerate (from 0 to 100 in 3 seconds?) left or right on the timeline. it would help efficient mobility when zoomed in all the way and working on very short edits. or maybe a soundtrack like view
2. interface brightness. a slider to adjust the background brightness of the browser, timeline and even buttons from the current medium gray to dark grays. a second slider could adjust the brightness of button content from black to white.
3. Viever HUD. a full HUD containing the browser, effects, filters, controls and basic motion (somewhat like the aperture HUD) to the shot i am currently on in the timeline.
4. adjustment track. the possibility to make adjustments and changes to a track (or slug) that will influence all cuts underneath.
5. group/ungroup. the possibility to create groups from timeline clips, then move and apply changes to the group or to individual clips within it.
6. linking audio and video. the possibility to link more than one video clip to the 24 potential audio clips.
7. (pretty please with sugar on top...) full RGB workflow :) ? please?
this thread should not die out... not when Christmas is so close (our christmas, april 20th)
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Tom Wolsky on Dec 2, 2008 at 11:59:23 am
3. I've never understood this. What's an asymmetrical cross dissolve? By shifting the amount used, aren't you just shifting the In point. I can see it for a fade in/fade out, which you can make asymmetrical in FCP, but not for a dissolve. Maybe I'm not getting what it's supposed to look like.
Surprised the list doesn't include the ever popular automatic scrolling timeline.
All the best,
Tom
Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP6," "Basic Training for FCS2" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Hector berrebi on Dec 2, 2008 at 5:43:00 pm
hi Tom
though i haven't tested it lately. i always hated scrolling timeline in avid... so much i didn't notice its absence in FCP. i seam to remember it (years back) as a buggy feature, especially on complex timelines. i should take a look at it in MC3 on mac and see if it runs smother now...
asymmetrical cross dissolves are awesome. imagine a a cut where shot A is an old man finishing a sentimental confession and gazing away in reminiscence and Shot B is a landscape, a sunset for example. and you have a dissolve between them where at the end of shot a A you have about 7-10 blended frames of dissolve (maybe matching a musical note) but in the beginning of shot B you have 28-36 blended frames, the old man's gaze slowly fading away over the sunset. it looks and feels nothing like centered on cut.
you could work around this and get the same result. but as AVID has this dissolve option for many many years now (at least since 97), how complex can it be to implement...?
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Sean ONeil on Nov 12, 2008 at 7:33:56 pm
[Tom Wolsky]"This workflow is great for motion graphics. I'm not sure it's suitable for workflows in an editing process that requires color correction, where the color correction may take place fairly early in the edit workflow rather than at the end. I think it would simply bog down the editing process."
I have a client right now who wants to see serious color grading during the creative process. It's very frustrating. The term "picture lock" isn't in their vocabulary. They've been making changes to the script after asking to see it color graded.
And then there's those who do an offline/online workflow. If you offline in ProRes but want to finish in Uncompressed, and you have a client like ours, obviously the current workflow for Color is a serious PITA.
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Christopher Wright on Nov 12, 2008 at 9:14:23 pm
I had a client that did that as well, and depending on the time of day or night we were editing, many times the Color Correction actually reverted back to the clips original color! I also love the clients who want to do special effects as we go, instead of getting the whole story edited in rough cut before making decisions on special effects, titling or other time consuming post production processes. We ended up spending days on sequences we didn't even use! It was great from an hourly billing standpoint, but the client almost didn't have enough money to finish the project due to all the "tweaking" up front!
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Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Tom Wolsky on Nov 12, 2008 at 10:16:44 pm
Which is what I was saying, that you often have to have grading done earlier in the process. With a dynamic link system it would substantially bog down editing, which is why rendering out the grade often works better. Clients just want to see finished look every time they look at the product, and not place holders or proxies or colors that change because it's not been graded, or partially graded.
All the best,
Tom
Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP6," "Basic Training for FCS2" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Alan Okey on Nov 12, 2008 at 11:34:02 pm
[Tom Wolsky]"Clients just want to see finished look every time they look at the product, and not place holders or proxies or colors that change because it's not been graded, or partially graded. "
You've just hit on one of the biggest differences in workflow between film and video.
In the feature film world, directors and producers are used to working with proxies or temp tracks during editing. The last stuff to get done is the audio mixing, color grading and completed VFX shots. It's quite common to see film trailers that have medium-quality temp VFX shots, which are ultimately replaced with much better quality completed shots in the theatrical release.
The video world is much different - turnaround times are much faster, and producers want to see everything happen in real time right in front of their eyes. Much of the time they can't visualize something without actually seeing it in front of their face. That's why as long as production budgets remain large enough, Smoke/Flame/Quantel suites will still be with us.
I find in my work that clients consistently overestimate what today's technology can do. Perhaps they've seen too many behind-the-scenes DVD segments on visual effects, but they assume that anything can be created or fixed in post. They are almost never surprised or impressed by what can be accomplished with the latest hardware and software - instead, they usually are surprised by how long everything takes. Only the really savvy clients appreciate the time, effort and skill that goes into finishing a spot or a show. "What do you mean it has to render?" "Why can't I see it now?" "Well how long is that going to take?" I hear that a lot more often than I hear "Wow, that's amazing! How did you do that?"
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Sean ONeil on Nov 13, 2008 at 3:13:43 am
[Tom Wolsky]"Which is what I was saying, that you often have to have grading done earlier in the process. With a dynamic link system it would substantially bog down editing, which is why rendering out the grade often works better."
There's plenty of workflow situations where it makes more sense to render it out first. Nobody is suggesting they take away that option. But for for every one of those there is a situation where a dynamic link type of workflow is vastly superior. Especially if you take into account more powerful computing in the near-future. There was a time not too long ago where multi-format sequences weren't allowed because it would bog down the editing.
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Tom Wolsky on Nov 13, 2008 at 7:12:09 am
I just don't think Apple is in a position to implement this for Color in a reasonable time or cost framework. They have far many more things in terms of both cost effectiveness and marketability that they can and should implement in the few remaining months before they have to release a substantial upgrade.
All the best,
Tom
Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP6," "Basic Training for FCS2" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Jackson Douglas on Mar 24, 2009 at 4:53:57 pm
>>"The relationship to the original media (and thus the source tapes) is gone."<<
Not at all true! But, I think I know what you are getting at.
And "destructive" is not the appropriate term if if that were true. Destructive would indicate that the original media files were changed and overwritten.
When a project gets returned from Color it creates a new Sequence in your project file that is a DUPLICATE of the sequence that was sent to Color adding the suffix 'from color' to the newly created sequence and linking the NEW sequence to the Color rendered media. The original sequence, links to original media is kept all intact.
That being said I'm in complete agreement that better integration into the "suite"... er, um, "studio". I assume what you are referring to is how once you come back from color it is a HUGE pain in the hindquarters to make any editorial changes and then run those changes through Color. That would be a dream if that worked better. The best parallel that I can think of is Live Effects in Photoshop.
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Neil Ryan on Nov 12, 2008 at 11:31:44 am
[Sean ONeil]"16) Timecode display during capture and ETT"
A big Amen!
Been wishing for a FAR better interface for capturing & outputting to tape for ages. (Sent that request to Apple through the official channels ages ago.) With long captures and especially outputs, the user has little/no idea where they're at timecode-wise.
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Richard Sanchez on Nov 12, 2008 at 1:50:24 am
1.) Update to the Find feature that allows you to search the timeline by codec.
(It'd be a God send for evidence / user submitted based programming)
2.) An Edit to Tape option that preserves the VBI
3.) 2:3 Insertion for dropping 23.976 footage in a 29.97
(It's already been mentioned, but it bears repeating!)
4.) Lower bitrate flavor of ProRes specifically for offline work (ala Avid DnxHD 36)
Richard Sanchez
North Hollywood, CA
"We are the facilitators of our own creative evolution." - Bill Hicks
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Alan Lacey on Nov 12, 2008 at 9:19:50 am
Nameable tracks,
Adjustable track stacking,
Import bitmap sequences (although I guess using Motion for this is almost as easy)
Disableable background rendering. (heavens my beloved Fast601 had this eons ago!)
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Chris Karageorgiou on Jun 6, 2009 at 5:03:14 am
I small request would be an "in use" tick column in the browser window for clips that are being used in a sequence. It's a minor addition, but it would save me some time.
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Tom Wolsky on Jun 6, 2009 at 9:36:53 am
Used in which sequence? What if it's more than one sequence? What if you nest sequences?
All the best,
Tom
Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP6," "Basic Training for FCS2" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Michael Gissing on Nov 13, 2008 at 4:29:00 am
[Baz Leffler]"#101 allow the 'broadcast filter' to always remain LAST in the stack of filters so it corrects for everything above."
Only if the broadcast safe filter was fixed so it worked after render. A better option would be to have a tick box on all filters to determine which one remains last.
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by jon smitherton on Nov 13, 2008 at 8:55:51 pm
[Baz Leffler]"#101 allow the 'broadcast filter' to always remain LAST in the stack of filters so it corrects for everything above."
I find the easiest way to nest then put the broadcast safe on that nest last. That way if the time line is rendered, it will not have to render those effects again, and then you can play out realtime via Kona, AJA etc.
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Tapio Haaja on Nov 21, 2008 at 11:23:49 am
I also like to see better support for Audio unit plug-ins. I don't want FCP to be audio editing suite but 99% of time I simply need to add compressor/limiter (Waves Ultramazimixer) to final mixdown and I hate that I have to go to Soundtrack Pro for such a small thing.
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Gabe Thorburn on Feb 18, 2009 at 12:24:02 am
I know April is almost here, but it doesn't hurt to keep on wishing.
201.) Larger Icon view of clips in the browser.
202.) The ability to group projects together, forming a super-project where master-affiliate clip relationships don't get lost between multiple projects. Currently if you move a sequence to a different project all those affiliate clips in the sequence lose their master-affiliate relationship. It would be great to keep your master clips in one project and your sequences spread across multiple projects.
203.) Create real Unity-style project sharing. (the super-project formula would work for this as well. A Super-project would be like an Avid project, and a FCP project would be like an Avid bin.
204.) When in double roller mode in the trim window, have both the A and B side update while using dynamic trim. 205.) Update Cinema Tools to include digital workflows such as from RED cameras.
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Martin Baker on Feb 18, 2009 at 12:21:47 pm
re 202/203: I think at some point we'll see Apple move all media management operations out of FCP and into a single-seat easier-to-set-up version of Final Cut Server that gets bundled with the package. I believe FCServer already has the ability to track what source clips are used in which projects.
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Brian Douglass on Mar 25, 2009 at 10:08:55 pm
I had to chime in- there's 2 things that i always wanted to see in FCP
(1) Synced folders- Bins&Folders are synced. Import a folder, and then when ever that folder is updated, the bin is updated.
(2) As dumb as it sounds.... an option to have a text editor... similar to QT Notetaker. this way you can keep project logs, and track your notes. Hell, even attach meta data when you export! (That's not in the marker) You can take and add notes on your project- bring in client notes- etc.
I hate how you always have to Apple+H back and forth when addressing comments..... that's all
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Tom Wolsky on Mar 25, 2009 at 10:19:54 pm
Hopefully this is too late for FCP7.
All the best,
Tom
Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP6," "Basic Training for FCS2" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by David Roth Weiss on May 9, 2009 at 6:10:40 am
[William Wright]"I want to see a major upgrade to the interface of apple color, something like the interface to motion."
The interface isn't what's holding Color back? Absolutely seamless one button round-tripping between FCP and is what Color needs. Period, end of story.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by walter biscardi on May 9, 2009 at 9:58:26 am
[David Roth Weiss]"The interface isn't what's holding Color back? Absolutely seamless one button round-tripping between FCP and is what Color needs. Period, end of story. "
You mean like Send to Color and Send to Final Cut Pro? That's worked fine here since Apple purchased Color and the whole XML thing worked fine prior to that as Final Touch HD. I think it was Final Touch 2.5 that had a really bad issue with XML, but that was fixed in 2.6.
Sure you have to prep the timeline to get rid of stills and speed changes, but once you work out that workflow, it's quite easy. We're even using it on all the news stories now so I think we're up over 200 projects sent through Final Touch HD / Color now. It's an easy workflow.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by David Roth Weiss on May 9, 2009 at 3:24:30 pm
[walter biscardi]"Sure you have to prep the timeline to get rid of stills and speed changes, but once you work out that workflow, it's quite easy. "
Nope, that's simply not acceptable. Prepping of any sort has to go. "Baking in" should be reserved for agoraphobic cooks. And, I can't be persuaded otherwise, so don't bother trying.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by walter biscardi on May 9, 2009 at 3:44:56 pm
[David Roth Weiss]"Nope, that's simply not acceptable. Prepping of any sort has to go. "Baking in" should be reserved for agoraphobic cooks. And, I can't be persuaded otherwise, so don't bother trying. "
I wouldn't bother trying to convince you. People keep asking me how I keep growing my business while so many people seem to be having a slow time. This is one way. I accept that not everything is going to be as easy as pushing a button. Sometimes you actually have to work a bit to make a product better or to please a client or to create new job opportunities where you didn't have any. Color enhancement is one job opportunity that has opened up thanks to Final Touch / Color.
I find it completely acceptable to have a company that grows in business by 200 to 400% each year and accepting the workaround needed for Final Touch / Color is one way we've done that.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by David Roth Weiss on May 9, 2009 at 3:59:43 pm
None of this is germane to this discussion, which is about what needs to be fixed in Color.
I happen to like Color, a lot even, but the XML or other file transfer protocol it uses needs to be made completely seamless. When that happens Color will be light years of where it is today.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Rafael Amador on May 9, 2009 at 4:35:41 pm
Sure few little things could be improved in the Color's interface, but no may. I think is very good.
But what I dream is with Color working inside FC. As Color-Finesse can do.
Another think that could be improved is being able to alter the pipeline. Some times would be interesting apply certain effects before the CC.
And the last thing I want ask Apple is, please, support third part codecs.
I want Color ingests and exports Sheer.
rafael
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by walter biscardi on May 9, 2009 at 5:44:04 pm
[Rafael Amador]"But what I dream is with Color working inside FC. As Color-Finesse can do. "
The would just dilute it to a plug-in. Don't see how you can pack a Primary In, 8 secondaries, Color FX, Geometry, Primary Out rooms into a plug-in. Looks is as close as you can get and it's just too limiting.
Of course you can do a primary grade using the 3 Way CC tool and Color will pick it up. What I would expect is that the 3 Way CC tool will get a facelift, or we'll see a Color type of plug-in added so you can do quick and easy CC or do a "primary color grade" in FCP which will then be completed in Color.
[Rafael Amador]"And the last thing I want ask Apple is, please, support third part codecs.
I want Color ingests and exports Sheer. "
It does already. DVCPro HD, XDCAM and RED are all third party and all can go into Color. What Color needs is the ability to work with more codecs and I honestly have no idea if it will or if it should.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by jack Bibbo on Jun 10, 2009 at 3:45:26 am
Maybe late to the game:
Better Trim tools. - More specifically better trim window.
Wait...also ALL my settings in one place. So that when I jump from machine to machine I don't have to LOAD 5 different settings in 5 different folders.
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by jack Bibbo on Jun 10, 2009 at 4:05:32 am
Oh and one more thing. (sorry)
I have to side with Walter on this pre/post locked cut grading issue.
There is a workflow that should be followed. At lease as best we can. Maybe old school but it is there for a reason.
NO DOUBT the client wants to see "finished" looks/fx before it is really finished. And it is AMAZING how some clients can no longer see pass ROUGH AUDIO or how polished we need to make it for approval. But at the end of the day it is my job to control the workflow and the room.
A friend of mine, who happens to be a great editor, taught me early on that it is all about room control. It is your suite and you may need to 'educate' some green producers on the proper way to do things. Gingerly and diplomatically of course. After all it will save them money and frustrations in the long run.
My two cents....now I have to run off and mix this cut so I can get approval.
Final Cut Pro 7 / FCS 3.0 by Mark Cairns on Jun 18, 2009 at 11:00:51 pm
1) Guidelines / Rulers (just like LiveType 2, Photoshop CS4 and Quark Xpress have). If I'm setting manual Black bars for example, I've no idea where anything is on the screen and every clip is estimated to the next one, or any other estimation or exact placement of elements.
2) Full 64-bit integration to Snow Leopard
3) Background Rendering
4) Speed Change Rendering in the Background
5) Background Exporting
6) Full Round-trip integration with Adobe Photoshop CS4 Extended (Already excellent if Movie is Exported / Imported for frame-by-frame effects editing but has to be either Uncompressed or one of the Pro codecs to accomplish that without resolution loss)
To expand this further, I'd like to see Apple extend the absolutely BRILLIANT LiveType 2.1. It's interface (with bespoke Typeface use / kerning etc.) is a bit clunky, but it can accomplish a lot of things that wouldn't be worth starting up a Motion project for.
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 / FCS 3.0 by Alan Okey on Jun 19, 2009 at 5:58:00 am
I wouldn't put too much hope into further LiveType development. I have a sneaking suspicion that in the next release of Final Cut Studio, LiveType will be dropped entirely and Apple will push Motion as its replacement.
Re: Final Cut Pro 7 wishlist by Richard Clark on Jun 19, 2009 at 9:48:09 am
All I want for Xmas is a Media Management System that works, a standard SMPTE language for all things editing. Maybe a FCP for those who simply want to edit, just like a Moviola did or a Steenbeck or a KEM, but never, ever like those dreadful offline systems. We have made life so bloody complex that editing is not editing anymore, it's postproduction. I don't want to be a post producer, been there done that, I want to simply be the best film editor I can be. I want a rock solid software system to simply edit a film, all that other stuff, sure some of you are into all that windowdressing, eyecandy stuff but please, have it as separate sections.
Create the following
1. Edit
2. Audio
3. FX
4. Colour aka color
5. Seemless, read . . . SEEMLESS DVD output.
However, above and beyond all these elements, Media Management. Build from the base up.
Storytelling via film/TV/whatever, is basically simple, edit one scene against the next against the next . . .
K.I.S.S. my . . .
Richard Clark's kiwicafe.com
Film Editor & . . .
http://kiwicafe.blogspot.com/
NZ & US & . . .
