How to import P2 Metadata into Final Cut Pro 6
by Chad Greene
on
Oct 21, 2008 at 9:41:23 pm
P2 METADATA NOTES:
I went to a seminar on P2 & Metadata recently and learned how valuable metadata really is. We all know that P2 removes the capturing step and thus saves us time, but I didn't realize that metadata can cut out the logging time and help me get to editing much faster.
Today (Oct 2009) I started researching how to get my P2 files into Final Cut Pro with my new metadata. If you don't know already, FCP will not import metadata and you will need a third party software to hold its hand. As I started researching I discovered two other things. First when importing P2 with FCP, I actually have to "transcode" it thus making a Quicktime file out of the MXF files. However, there is some great software out there that will allow you to natively edit your P2 card media, thus saving yet another step... transcoding. And Second, and most frustrating, there is not much info out here to help us newbies. I had to call companies, friends, read websites, and test software in an attempt to understand the basics of this new workflow.
Because of the lack of info online, I thought I would try to help, so here is my research and notes on the best software for importing P2 metadata into Final Cut Pro. And I hope it helps the rest of you newbies.
Calibrated{Q} MXF Import http://www.calibratedsoftware.com $74.95
This software allows you to import the native P2 files without having to transcode them. However it only works on Intel computers, and not on PowerPCs. Once it is installed you can drag the video files directly into FCP and start editing. However, it does not deal with your metadata so you will still have to log... BUT you won't have to transcode.
P2 Log Pro http://www.imagineproducts.com/P2log.htm $199
This software (along with HD Log) is primarily for logging footage. However it will let you export an XML text file (which maps the metadata info to FCP fields) and transcodes the P2 Media into self-contained Quicktime files. This XML file can then be imported into FCP for editing. The two things that it cannot do is offload the P2 cards in the field (verify the copy process), nor can you export XMLs with reference Quicktimes. There is a good comparison chart on the website (under the compare link) that compares P2 Log Pro, and the three versions of HD Log.
HD Log (Bronze) http://www.imagineproducts.com/hdlog.htm $299
This software is a step up from P2 Log Pro. Again, it is primarily a logging program, but really is the full package. You can use it at the shoot to offload your cards onto your hard drives and verify that the copy happened as you expected. You can then log your data and change your metadata if needed, then save your logs as text files for future reference, in effect creating a library of all footage the you have shot. However the limitation of this Bronze version, is that you can only search one log file at a time. If you move up to Silver, you can search an entire folder of log files (such as when you remember the shot, but not the project or tape it is on). Finally with HD Log, you can save out an XML file with transcoded Quicktime files, or you can skip the transcoding and save out the XML with reference or pointer/shortcut Quicktimes that allow you to play the native P2 media without taking up extra space on your drives.
Raylight http://www.dvfilm.com/raylight/mac/index.htm $195
This software allows you to play your P2 files natively without having to transcode them. It does this by creating a reference Quicktime. There are two things that put it above the program Calibrated{Q} MXF Import: 1] you can add the USER CLIP NAME from the metadata to the file name. But this is the only part of the metadata that can be mapped to a Final Cut field; 2] you can have all of the metadata made into a slate that overwrites the first frame of your clip. This at least gives you access to all your info even if it can't be mapped to a field.
My choice: After spending about 5 hours researching this info and playing with the demos, I think I would buy HD Log Bronze because it does everything from the beginning to the end. In my mind HD Log Bronze give me the most bang for my buck.
My second choice would be Raylight. It is much simpler to operate, and is $5 cheeper than P2 Log Pro. If you only care about getting the USER CLIP NAME info then this is a nice way to go. And it will work on all Macs unlike Calibrated{Q} MXF Import which only works on Intels.
I hope this helps you get started. If you see something wrong with my research, please respond, and please be kind. P2 & Metadata is new for me, and this is based on 5 hours of research. There that is my disclaimer.
Chad Greene Mahoney Media Group Minneapolis, Minnesota 2x3GHz Quad-Core, 4GB Ram, OS 10.4 FCP 6, Kona-LH
Re: How to import P2 Metadata into Final Cut Pro 6 by Shane Ross on Oct 21, 2008 at 10:09:23 pm
I recommend HD LOG. Because it imports the Metadata into columns in FCP thus making them sortable and searchable. Raylight only makes a slate on the second frame...semi useful. Plus HD log with that XML export option means you don't have to spend a lot of time waiting for the footage to convert to QT files. This is my now preferred method of import of P2 into FCP.
However, Avid has this all built in and the Avid P2 workflow is BY FAR the best I have seen.
Re: How to import P2 Metadata into Final Cut Pro 6 by Jeremy Garchow on Oct 21, 2008 at 10:31:19 pm
[Chad Greene]"Shane, why should we consider MXF4Mac? How does it handle all the metadata fields? How does it handle transcoding? "
It doesn't transcode. You can import native DVCPro HD files with all metadata in tact (if it's there) and no transcoding. It also handles spanned files, proper frame for frame timecode and audio.
Re: How to import P2 Metadata into Final Cut Pro 6 by Andreas Kiel on Oct 23, 2008 at 12:25:39 am
Jeremy,
I'm with you, even though the mxf4mac seems to be a bit pricey it's a real good solution.
The main feature is that it allows total QT control without transcoding.
That way I was able to build a complete workflow for a customer to combine P2 video with external BWAVs in sync.
With my workflow and mxf4mac it now takes seconds (or a real few minutes) instead of many minutes or even hours to get the files into FCP with all metadata and external audio in sync (assuming the AV is in sync).
Re: How to import P2 Metadata into Final Cut Pro 6 by Jeremy Garchow on Oct 23, 2008 at 2:39:43 am
[Shane Ross]" can't buy all the tools, not when they are expensive, so I choose the one with more options...ones that I need."
I totally hear that. Believe you me.
I use P2CMS to do my logging and metadata upload (it's free).
I also use Shotput p2 out in the field, man is that the most useful piece of software.
Then with MXF4Mac I know that the metadata will be in tact (including timecode, or Color work or restoring an older project that has been taken off the system, and also very importantly User Clip Name). With MXF4Mac, you can actually share the EXACT SAME media with Avid and FCP, that's right, share the media from the orig. MXF files (a first, I think).
I know it seems like you aren't paying for much as there's not much of an interface to it, but it does some really good work behind the scenes. Also the P2 Flow Contextual Menu is the bees knees.
[Andreas Kiel]"I'm with you, even though the mxf4mac seems to be a bit pricey it's a real good solution.
The main feature is that it allows total QT control without transcoding. "
Yes, for DVCPro HD there's no transcoding. It is very nice. And like you said, if you work with separate audio, it really starts to become a necessity almost.
The ONLY holdout for now is AVC-Intra, but that is due to the AVC-I codec itself. Apple has not taken control of the codec and therefore we cannot edit AVC-I natively. You can import the media, but it does not play in real time. Also FCP interprets the AVC-I footage as 8 bit RGB and gets knocked down to SMPTE range from full range if you put it in a timeline and try to edit with it. Hopefully this will change if Apple decides to implement the AVC-I codec someday. I have definitely sent feedback on that one a couple of times.
The good thing though, is that you can use MXF4Mac to send your media batch exported straight from the browser in FCP (which bypasses the 8bitRGB limitation) with the User Clip Name and do you transcoding to whatever file format you want (with timecode following you along on the whole process). You can also use this technique for DVCPro HD if you need to do an online of sorts with DVCPro HD P2 footage or combine a mixed format timeline into one codec and then send that uniform codec timeline to Color. It allows for very easy transcoding of P2 media to any codec (say 10bit Uncompressed or ProRes 422 HQ of which Compressor does a very nice job of handling). AND it doesn't work with just P2, it works with all kinds of MXF media natively.
If AVC-Intra becomes an accepted codec with broadcasters, we will have relatively low bandwidth 10 bit native broadcasting, which would be able to be exported with MXF4Mac Export if AVC-I catches on.
MXF4Mac is very cool and worth the dough. Also, the products that are in development right now according to their website sound really nice. They are really thinking this whole MXF media management all the way through from ingest to broadcast.
Re: How to import P2 Metadata into Final Cut Pro 6 by Chad Greene on Oct 23, 2008 at 1:49:59 pm
[Jeremy Garchow]"with MXF4Mac I know that the metadata will be in tact (including timecode..."
[Jeremy Garchow]"...for DVCPro HD there's no transcoding. It is very nice. And like you said, if you work with separate audio, it really starts to become a necessity almost. "
Jeremy, can you explain two things for me? In your post you commented about keeping timecode intact, and about working with separate audio. If I am reading between the lines correctly, it sounds like there is a chance I can loose my P2 timecode and that my audio will not sinc up properly. Can you explain this problem and how it pertains to HDLog vs. MXF4Mac?
I am starting a project shot on P2 with DVCPro HD at 60 frames. It is interviews and broll with audio.
Chad Greene Mahoney Media Group Minneapolis, Minnesota 2x3GHz Quad-Core, 4GB Ram, OS 10.4 FCP 6, Kona-LH
Re: How to import P2 Metadata into Final Cut Pro 6 by Jeremy Garchow on Oct 23, 2008 at 2:34:27 pm
[Chad Greene]"Can you explain this problem and how it pertains to HDLog vs. MXF4Mac? "
Sure.
Well, if you use HD Log, the files get wrapped to Quicktime. The timecode, video and audio get passed to this new quicktime file and eveything is in one self contained file and then an XML gets passed with the metadata via XMl to FCP, so you are fine if you use HD Log, you jsut have to wait for the trasncoding process.
With MXF4Mac, there is no transcoding. Thie MXF files are sent to FCP with video, audio, tc and metadata married together in FCP so it looks like one file, but really it's the MXF4Mac software that pulls them all together and access the MXF media within the original P2 structure. No transcoding.
AS far as the spearate audio, what I am talking about there is sync sound audio, or recording audio to a spearate device such as the 744T from Sound Devices or other boradcast wave recorders that will embed timnecode into the audio signal. MXF4Mac can help marry your P2 Video to the sync sound via timecode.
Re: How to import P2 Metadata into Final Cut Pro 6 by Shane Ross on Oct 23, 2008 at 3:17:50 pm
[Jeremy Garchow]"Well, if you use HD Log, the files get wrapped to Quicktime"
Ahhh...but I guess not many people, including you, know that you DON'T have to do that. In fact, HDLog makes alias' much like Raylight does, tying audio and video to one file, and then you can use those alias' to make an XML that will then map all of the metadata to columns in FCP. ZERO transcode time. Looks like I need to make a mini tutorial for this. It is very slick.
And with HD Log you get the offloading capabilities, ability to ADD metadata to the clips and reformat the cards...and name them. All this for as much...or less...than MXF4QT.
[Jeremy Garchow]"if you use HD Log, you jsut have to wait for the trasncoding process."
Nope, you don't. OK, do I have time tonight to do a tutorial? I'd love to do it right now...lemme see...
Re: How to import P2 Metadata into Final Cut Pro 6 by Jeremy Garchow on Oct 23, 2008 at 3:55:14 pm
[Shane Ross]"HDLog makes alias' much like Raylight does"
Ah, I didn't know that. It thought it was an XML to Quicktime deal. Thanks for letting me know.
Now, once you take that offline (say you archive the project) what happens to those aliasses? Or is that aliai. I don't know the plural for alias. Do those come back online as well?
I will say the offloading/formatting capabilities are nice, but I have Shotput P2 which was $49.99 which was probably torn off of HD Log.
According the mxf4mac website, they are also working on a comprehensive logging and metadata editor called P2 Flow, but that's not out yet.
Metadata also gets passed to an FCP XML with MXF4Mac as well and there are no reference files, it is simply using the MXF data natively, not unlike Avid.
Re: How to import P2 Metadata into Final Cut Pro 6 by Andreas Kiel on Oct 23, 2008 at 10:43:54 pm
As far as I know it's not an alias but a reference movie which is created.
From my experience it's not such a good thing to work with referenced movies, as if you move or copy (copy will create a new id) any of the sources to another disk the reference is gone - but many people like to work with those referenced files and it does work fine as long you keep everything intact..
The real good deal for me/us is that mxf4mac allows us do work directly with the files. This way we can sync the files with external audio in a very flexible way.
Maybe I'll find the time over the weekend to show how we do it.
Re: How to import P2 Metadata into Final Cut Pro 6 by Andreas Kiel on Oct 24, 2008 at 12:28:39 am
I just created a movie of a workflow how it happens here. Everything is based upon my experience about Final Cut Pro XML and BWAV files.
The movie is a real real time capture made on my old G5 using a slow USB drive as source for both video and audio. The G5 runs some processes in the background.
I used the mxf4mac component to handle the mxf files, their metadata, the external BWAV audio is handled by my app reading iXML info, read these metadata and family stuff to keep mono audio channels connected.
The app uses the audio files to find out which mxf will fit "tc-wise" to the P2 XML clips
The count of P2 video files are around 70, the external audio is either 3 or 5 channels (lets say average 4) per video clip.
As you see in the movie it takes about 2 minutes to get all this stuff into Final Cut Pro - imagine you got a Intel (3G 8 Core or higher).
As said earlier. I do see the future there with the mxf4mac guys - and to be honest they love my apps too.
Maybe Björn will post something about the CM which comes with the component
Re: How to import P2 Metadata into Final Cut Pro 6 by annette duerr on Mar 13, 2009 at 1:00:25 pm
dear experts. i read your discussion about p2-workflow but it still doesn´t seem to solve my problem. maybe some of you can help me.
i also have the problem of not being able to import the meta data, espeacially the user file name to fcp.
i tested some of the other programms you recommanded but:
i need to end up with quicktime-files that have the user-file-name, because the editors take the disk with the stuff with them and then transfer it to the cutters disk. so - if i use raylight for example - it seems not to possible to re-connect the qt-reference-file with the original file easily after moving them.
and with p2 log pro the editor won´t be able to watch the files without importing it into final cut, at least not the files with the user-file-name...and since they must select their stuff (by watching it with an ordinary player) befor they go to the cutter, i don´t see a way to organize that without ending in chaos.
i hope this is understandable, my english is not the best. sorry.
another possibility would be if it was possible to automatically name the clips in fcp- log&transfer.
i just need to name them "name_001" to "name_100" which i now do with endless copy-paste-sessions in the evenings.
i´d really be happy if someone has an idea - i mean that´s what machines have been invented for, right, to do such stupid kind of work.
Re: How to import P2 Metadata into Final Cut Pro 6 by Bjoern Adamski on Mar 13, 2009 at 1:59:25 pm
Annette,
P2 Flow CM that is included with our MXF importer provides the metadata mapping you demand. However each editing station would require the software since it accesses the native MXF files without referencing or converting to MOV. What you could do is to fire all P2 clips over to FCP with the User Clip Name set to be the Clip Name (an option within P2 Flow CM) and then export the files from FCP to MOV for none MXF aware editing stations.
Please note that P2 Flow CM is not included in the free demo version. Please get in touch with us when you want to receive a test license: http://mxf4mac.com/contact
Re: How to import P2 Metadata into Final Cut Pro 6 by Chad Greene on Mar 13, 2009 at 4:09:24 pm
Annette, don't feel bad. P2 is a complicated workflow and it takes a few times through it to feel comfortable. Now, if I understand you correctly, here is what I would do:
• Buy HDLog Bronze
• Import your P2 into HDLog.
• Select Export and...
• Select "Final Cut Pro XML" and set as "self contained movies" - this will take a while to transcode, but because you are handing the footage to a number of people, it will be safer.
• Before hitting the Export button, check the fields to be sure your metadata is going into the FCP field you want it in.
• Be sure to set "Name Quicktime Movie as" to "User Clip Name"
• NOW hit Export.
I have included a photo so this will be more clear.
Chad Greene Mahoney Media Group Minneapolis, Minnesota 2x3GHz Quad-Core, 4GB Ram, OS 10.4 FCP 6, Kona-LH
Re: How to import P2 Metadata into Final Cut Pro 6 by Shane Ross on Oct 21, 2008 at 10:53:41 pm
HDLOG Bronze is cheaper than MXF4QT. And it offers the card offloading capabilities of SHOTPUT P2 (that was a product gleened from HDLOG). And playback capabilities for instant on set playback. AND...you can ADD metadata to the clips with HDLOG. Say you forgot to add the location or the subject name, HDLog allows you to add that and modify the metadata of that clip. IT does a lot. A P2 Swiss Army knife
Sure, there are some antics involved in getting the information into FCP, but the tools it offers, I find, are worth it.
I can't buy all the tools, not when they are expensive, so I choose the one with more options...ones that I need.
Re: How to import P2 Metadata into Final Cut Pro 6 by Dan Montgomery on Oct 24, 2008 at 7:15:30 pm
Just to be clear, HD Log has the choice to export either 'self contained' movies or the 'reference files' when creating FCP XML outputs.
You don't have to save the 'Alias Log' files first (but you can if you want). This option was added to let folks save logs with pointers only to build small indices to their media (whether it's online or offline).
Opening a P2 volume and exporting to FCP just the reference files is pretty darn fast, especially after you've setup the metadata field mapping which you only have to do once.
On another note, ShotPut was developed separately from HDLog and started as a simple offloader for Sony EX-1 cards only. It was later expanded to include other cards and file types and much effort was put into it to make the copy procedure faster than anything else on the market.
ShotPut especially shines when you're making multiple copies of the same card, or copying more than one card at a time. Yes, I just said you can hook up a 5-card P2 reader and copy all 5 cards to 3 locations (15 total destinations) all at the same time. Or, you can hook up *many* P2 cards, HDDs, FireStore and a P2Store and copy them all at once. On the Mac, the only limit is 16 maximum 'mounted' drives.
The new ShotPut Pro offers any file types in one application (P2, AVCHD, RED, SxS). It can also copy *any* media or HDD. And it has the ability to launch your DVD/Blu-ray burn application when finished.
