Conforming 59.94 prores
by Tom Durham
on
Sep 17, 2008 at 3:12:49 pm
Hello Everybody!
Here's the setup:
Shot Varicam, sent out to P2 Mobile via HDSDI, P2 Mobile recorded (AVC-Intra 100) in 59.94, regardless of the framerate the Varicam was set to.
Imported via log and transfer in FCP, converting to AppleProRes (HQ), 1280 x 720 59.94.
Other than the shots I actually WANT slo-mo (and I do an easy conform in Cinema Tools for those and it looks perfect) I obviously want everything in 23.98.
HERE'S THE PROBLEM:
When I drop some of the shots on my 23.98 timeline, it plays stuttery. Instead of intelligently pulling down 23.98 fps out of the 59.94, FCP seems to pull down duplicate frames. (Only on some of the shots, which doesn't make sense.)
I can't get CinemaTools to simply conform it because it actually HAS all 59.94 frames per second. Conforming to 23.98 just makes it slo mo. Maybe there's a tool I don't understand there?
There are a couple workarounds---convert to DVCPROHD and then use the frame converter. (It only works on DVCPROHD not prores.) Or drop in aftereffects, which does a perfect pulldown. Problem is, it's for a film, and I can't afford to lose quality with all the rendering back and forth.
Re: Conforming 59.94 prores by Tom Durham on Sep 17, 2008 at 4:52:04 pm
Actually, I just went into L&T and "Remove Advanced Pulldown and Duplicate Frames" is checked. So I'm guessing it was checked for the whole thing. Honestly, I can't remember! We were shooting and transferring so fast during a crazy two weeks. Unfortunately, the P2 cards are all formated.
But the files as I have them are Apple ProRes HQ 59.94, and it seems like all 59.94 frames per second are all there, since when I conform it to 23.98 in CinemaTools, it creates an instant, perfect slo mo.
Re: Conforming 59.94 prores by Shane Ross on Sep 17, 2008 at 4:57:05 pm
Well, Did you shoot 24p? Meaning, 23.98 with pulldown? Sorry, but to me your whole workflow seems off. If you wanted 23.98, why did you shoot 59.94? Did you at least shoot 24p?
With DVCPRO HD, the 24p setting flags the footage so that FCP knows to remove the frames as it captures, or as it imports from P2. But going to the Mobile as 59.94, I don't know if the flags are passed on to AVCIntra in this manner. If you shot with an AVCI camera, yes. But this way?
And I don't think you can reverse telecine...because that only works with 29.97 footage to 23.98. If you have 59.94...60fps...CT won't do that.
Re: Conforming 59.94 prores by Jeremy Garchow on Sep 17, 2008 at 5:06:43 pm
[Shane Ross]"But this way? "
Yes, it should work but it needs to be set up properly as the flas should be passed via HDSDI to the P2 Mobile. This way you will be able to get AVC-I quality out of an existing Varicam. I think you should be able to record 24pN as well.
Re: Conforming 59.94 prores by Tom Durham on Sep 17, 2008 at 8:56:58 pm
Yes, we shot 24p on the Varicam. But the P2 mobile just takes the HDSDI and knows that it's actually getting 59.94, so it just records the whole thing as if I want all 59.94. I don't think it passes the flags on to AVC-Intra. But if it does, I'm pretty sure it doesn't retain them as converts to ProRes during L&T.
But either way, if I'm stuck with real 59.94 ProRes files... what's the best way to get them down to 23.98?
And why doesn't FinalCut just intelligently pull frames when I drop it into a 23.98 timeline?
Simple exports from Quicktime or AfterEffects do it perfectly. (But again, I'm trying to avoid losing a generation.)
Re: Conforming 59.94 prores by Shane Ross on Sep 17, 2008 at 9:03:37 pm
[Tom Durham]"what's the best way to get them down to 23.98?"
That bears experimenting. Look at Compressor for this. Might have to change settings to figure out what works.
[Tom Durham]"why doesn't FinalCut just intelligently pull frames when I drop it into a 23.98 timeline?"
Because it doesn't. There is a lot it can do well, but this isn't one of them. I don't even think Avid does this well...not even the new one. I was told to perform this conversion with third party software before you online. Just not a tool in the NLE toolbelt I suppose.
[Tom Durham]"Simple exports from Quicktime or AfterEffects do it perfectly. (But again, I'm trying to avoid losing a generation.)"
Well, this might be the only answer. And really, how much quality is lost? More than the older days if you captured at 2:1? or AVR77? Or onlined tape to tape? I think that slight loss is acceptable. Or, if it isn't, then you are stuck with 59.94.
Re: Conforming 59.94 prores by Tom Durham on Sep 18, 2008 at 4:00:21 pm
What's amazingly bizarre is that some clips look perfect--no stutter--and some stutter. Same settings, same import, etc etc. FCP seems to be inconsistent with which clips it is smart with! Makes no sense.
But thanks for your input!
Some day check out 95ers.com. That's the movie. Bad workflow... great movie!!!
