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Any tips for shooting from a Cessna plane?

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Diego BarrazaAny tips for shooting from a Cessna plane?
by on Apr 1, 2012 at 5:46:00 pm

I will be shooting from a Cessna top winged plane window next week. No budget for giro, any tips for low budget stabilization for Cannon 7D. My plan is to use a inflated rubber ball to cushion the jitter from the plane and shoot downwind. Heard of bungees doing the trick.

Would appreciate any experience and pointers on the matter. I have to do a shot of a woman that will be on a field on the ground so probably will need 0 70mm lens or more to get in close but that meen more vibration in the shot.

Many thanks.

filmmaking-editing-dop-dad


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Angelo LorenzoRe: Any tips for shooting from a Cessna plane?
by on Apr 2, 2012 at 1:55:53 am

70mm lens or 700mm? Your typo makes it difficult for me to understand.

I do have to ask your decision making process for what I would consider an impractical shot. My first instinct, if there are resources near you, would be to pay to rent an RC camera helicopter and pay an operator. There are many small radio controlled helicopters that can handle the weight of a dSLR and afford you very dynamic shots.

I don't think filming with a 70mm lens would be terribly difficult for very short amounts of time (I've done 5-10 second shots hanging out the side of a chase car at 80mph, and I don't think a plain is much bumpier), what concerns me is that Cessna prop planes need to go about 90mph to stay safely aloft, and a 70mm lens would put you dangerously close to the ground.

If you meant a 700mm lens.. you're basically using a long lens with a doubler. The image quality goes down considerably, and most people will recommend a gyro head even on a tripod on the ground for lenses over 400-500mm for best performance.


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Todd TerryRe: Any tips for shooting from a Cessna plane?
by on Apr 2, 2012 at 3:52:12 am

[Angelo Lorenzo] "Cessna prop planes need to go about 90mph to stay safely aloft,"

Well, you can actually go about half that fast (it's going to depend on the model), but I wouldn't recommend going quite that slow. Something like a little C150 or 152 has a pretty low stall speed, about 45 knots per hour... although you'd certainly want to be flying a bit faster than that unless you had a fair bit of altitude in case you did stall so there was plenty of room between you and the ground to recover. I've flown Cessenas that stalled even a bit slower than that, flaps down... it just depends on the airplane, every one is a bit different. Jump up to a Cessena 210 and the stall speed is about 55 knots, I think (I personally have never been behind the yoke of a 210, but I think those are the specs). A C172 is somewhere in the middle.

One of the issues would be is altitude and focal length. I don't know how close your close-up shot of this woman has to be, but it might be pretty tricky. Firstly, that would seem to dictate a long lens, but of course the wider your lens the smoother this shot is going to be. I personally wouldn't try that shot with anything longer than about 35mm, and would even prefer 28mm. 18mm could be pretty steady, with practice... but then again that's pretty darn wide. The other thing as I said, is altitude... and how close you are able to get to your subject. It somewhat depends on your terrain, location, and the willingness of your pilot to do it (which might involve skirting some rules). Technically he or she should not be flying you any lower than 500 feet above ground level at any point in the flight.... except of course at takeoff and landing. If you're out in the sticks somewhere and not near any controlled airspace they might be willing to do it... I sure wouldn't recommend it though at anything near stall speed.

Let us know how it goes.

T2

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Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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Ken MaxwellRe: Any tips for shooting from a Cessna plane?
by on Apr 2, 2012 at 3:19:58 pm

It seams to me that successfully making the shot as described would be close to impossible. . . even under the most experienced hands. 1) Under a slow-flite configuration (full flaps, hanging on the prop, battling a wind currents, aircraft stability) the air speed will be too high to have any controlled dramatic flow to the scene. 2) The wing strut on a Cessna high wing airplane will be right in the middle of your view. You will have a highly restricted area through which to shoot. 3) A 70mm focal length lens would be virtually impossible to hold steady. 4) Repeat takes won't improve the situation.

Suggestion: Hire a helicopter with a gyro door mount for a repeatable, stable platform. Or a long crane, use a wide angle lens, swing and boom down to your tight shot.

You have outlining a complex and difficult shot. I doubt that you will be able to find a pilot who is interested in attempting the low level maneuver that would be required, plus the shooting obstacles are most difficult to deal with.
Good luck,
Ken


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Diego BarrazaRe: Any tips for shooting from a Cessna plane?
by on Apr 3, 2012 at 10:54:56 am

Thanks for the input. The lens is a canon 70mm and it has image stabiliser, the pilot says that he has to be 500ft of the ground. My main concern is vibration and being able to pin point and follow the action on the ground: a woman and a child walking around a circle in a big grassland field. I have to shoot out of the rather small cessna plane window.

I plan to shoot at at least 8f stop and maybe 250th of a sec exposure. I have a Fig rig to fix the camera, hand hold it and have a base support with a inflatable rubber ball in my lap.

Its my first aerial shoot, Im a bit nervous and would really like to get it right.

filmmaking-editing-dop-dad


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Todd TerryRe: Any tips for shooting from a Cessna plane?
by on Apr 3, 2012 at 2:23:45 pm

[Diego Barraza] "I plan to shoot at at least 8f stop and maybe 250th of a sec exposure."

Probably not the best choice. Shooting at that high a shutter speed is going to give you very choppy, strobby video. It's the equivalent of "narrow shutter" shooting in film, where the high shutter speed really freezes the action on every frame and you get that staccato look. That effect is usually used in action films where they want a scene to looks more, well, "actiony." Sometimes it works well ("Saving Private Ryan"), and sometimes it looks terrible ("Gladiator").

Your brain actually needs the motion blur to interpret the frames as smooth motion. I think sharp frames are only going to intensify the vibration and instability of the shot.

I'd more suggest shooting with a "normal" shutter if you want a smooth look.... that is, one that mimics a film camera shooting with a 180° shutter. If you are shooting 24fps, that exposure would be 1/48th of a second (or as near to that as your camera will allow. To get that number you basically just double your frame rate. The actual math is "one over twice the frame rate."

T2

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Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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David RodwellRe: Any tips for shooting from a Cessna plane?
by on Apr 3, 2012 at 1:02:13 pm

The scenario you describe, photographing a single person from the air, is quite simple.

With a shutter speed higher than 1/1000 and a good size lens, 300mm to 400mm, there should be no technical issues.

The speed of the aircraft is not an issue, nor is focal length or any other technical issues.

The shutter speed will stop any vibrational issues and the lens will be about as large as you can use freehand.

From the standpoint of actually having a recognizable photo of the person on the ground...not likely with most equipment.

David Rodwell
Aerial Photography Academy


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Mark SuszkoRe: Any tips for shooting from a Cessna plane?
by on Apr 2, 2012 at 2:45:06 pm

The Cessna is the wrong plane for this; you want an open-cockpit ultralight 2-seater. Some googling will find you a club nearby.

If the Cessna is all you have, don't touch the plexi at all. You will only add vibration. Stay wide and have the plane do the camera moves. The windows don't offer much down-angle for a long-lensed camera. A helicopter is really more ideal for this work because you can take the door off and shoot hand-held from the back seat with a great view, and the chopper can get you a much better position at any speed.

I agree that an RC helicopter or quadcopter slinging a go pro would be good as well. Other options include a balloon or even a large kite with an RC-controlled camera platform on it. All depends on the shot and your budget.


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Ken MaxwellRe: Any tips for shooting from a Cessna plane?
by on Apr 2, 2012 at 3:35:58 pm

You can pop off the door of a Cessna, too, but the flight characteristics and shooting obstacles make it a poor choice as a shooting platform.


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Mark SuszkoRe: Any tips for shooting from a Cessna plane?
by on Apr 2, 2012 at 3:43:01 pm

A Piper Cub would be better than the Cessna, for that matter.


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Ken MaxwellRe: Any tips for shooting from a Cessna plane?
by on Apr 2, 2012 at 3:51:01 pm

Yea, but you can only shoot at about 4 o'clock from a Cub if you are careful not to get the elevator in the shot . . . the prop, landing gear and strut preclude shooting forward or down much, though you can open a fairly wide door.


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Todd TerryRe: Any tips for shooting from a Cessna plane?
by on Apr 2, 2012 at 3:52:34 pm

Most Pipers have double wing struts, those those are double the obstructions of the Cessnea.

I certainly wouldn't take the doors off of either... the Cessnea will buffet like crazy if you do that. They'll sometimes buffet pretty badly with just the windows open at low altitude.

I agree with everyone else that this is just the wrong tool for the job... but was going on the assumption that you HAVE to use the Cessnea and HAVE to use the DSLR before suggesting anything else.

A helicopter with a Tyler mount would generally be considered the "right" way to do this, or a remote controlled quad-copter... but sometimes the right way to do things are out of reach. I'm not sure this is the solution, though.

T2

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Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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Mark SuszkoRe: Any tips for shooting from a Cessna plane?
by on Apr 2, 2012 at 4:00:54 pm

Something like this:


http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=469159

Is what you use if you don't want a copter.


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Ken MaxwellRe: Any tips for shooting from a Cessna plane?
by on Apr 2, 2012 at 4:07:12 pm

It would seem to me that if the budget precludes a stable platform One should consider re-writing the treatment. Maybe shoot from the ground, from the top of a windmill or water tower, or big step ladder. It just most likely won't work from a fixed wing aircraft . . . but you might have fun trying.

Ken


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Todd TerryRe: Any tips for shooting from a Cessna plane?
by on Apr 2, 2012 at 4:26:36 pm

These guys actually do the best RC aerial work I've ever seen.

I'd LOVE to have one of their helicopters... but they don't sell them, just rent their services. Their bird will carry a much bigger payload (full-size DSLR with remote controlled gimball and all) than most any other that I've seen...

http://www.perspectiveaerials.com/

T2

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Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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Diego BarrazaRe: Any tips for shooting from a Cessna plane?
by on Apr 3, 2012 at 3:43:18 pm

There seems to be some disagreement about shutter speed, Todd is saying low shutter speed i.e. 50th/sec and David from aerial academy is saying high shutter speed i.e. 1/1000Sec. Is there any consensus on the matter?

Just to clear on what I have available, I cannot change this, this is what I have been set up to use and I have to base my choices on this equipment:

Camera 7D Canon
Good range of lenses from 28mm to 200mm
Cessna 172 plane
Choices of camera mount. Fig rig, tripod or plain handheld (got a Stedycam Merlin, but is out of the question)

The shot: Sweeping shot, the plane comes from west to east following the coastline, Im on the left side of the plane and I am seeing big white cliffs and bits of coast (south coast of England), we go up above the cliff and start turning to the north, where there is a grassy plane on top of the cliff were a woman is walking in a circle. The plane circles above her anticlockwise.


My plan: Camera mounted on fig rig, rubber ball on my lap for support, Shoot with the small window open. Shoot with 70mm, 50th/sec shutter speed, at least 8f stop. Frame where I will not see any of the plane's rigging and move the camera as little as possible and let the plane do the camera movement.

filmmaking-editing-dop-dad


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Todd TerryRe: Any tips for shooting from a Cessna plane?
by on Apr 3, 2012 at 4:00:15 pm

[Diego Barraza] "There seems to be some disagreement about shutter speed, Todd is saying low shutter speed i.e. 50th/sec and David from aerial academy is saying high shutter speed i.e. 1/1000Sec."

Well David is right that he says that would yield a good photograph...as he said, "photograph." As in a still photograph. I'm not sure he knows that you are talking about motion photography.

That high shutter speed will give you sharp images, yes... sharp images that, when stitched together and played back at 24 frames a second... will look very sharp and staccato and stuttery. As I said in my earlier post, if nice smooth motion is what you are after, you should shoot at a more "normal" shutter speed to give you the proper motion blur that your brain needs to interpret everything as nice and fluid. And in the case of 24fps shooting, "normal" would be, yes about a 1/50th shutter.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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Todd TerryRe: Any tips for shooting from a Cessna plane?
by on Apr 3, 2012 at 4:25:21 pm

I also just re-read your description of the shot. Have you actually done a "test flight" of this path? If not, I'm not sure you realize how difficult/impossible it would be to pull off a shot like that in a Cessnea, or in any fixed-wing airplane.

Firstly, it sounds like this is all one continuous shot. No room for mistakes. Secondly, I don't know what your project is, but an airplane can't simply swoop around in a circle around someone on the ground... at least not quickly. That counter-clockwise circle around your talent would likely take several minutes and even if the plane was as low as possible (500ft AGL), it would still horizontally be a lot lot lot farther away from the talent than that. I mean like a half mile, or more. A 172 can't spin around in a tight circle like that. It just can't.

Wrong tool for the job. You are going to either have to get the right tool, or completely re-write the requirements of the shot to correspond with what the equipment you do have can do. That's all there is to it, and not to be blunt, but talking it to death is not going to force it to happen... if you want usable results.

T2

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Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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Mark SuszkoRe: Any tips for shooting from a Cessna plane?
by on Apr 3, 2012 at 7:42:53 pm

"The shot: Sweeping shot, the plane comes from west to east following the coastline, Im on the left side of the plane and I am seeing big white cliffs and bits of coast (south coast of England), we go up above the cliff and start turning to the north, where there is a grassy plain on top of the cliff were a woman is walking in a circle. The plane circles above her anticlockwise."


I don't care if Biggles AND Dan Dare are piloting: this isn't going to work, not in a single pass, and the woman is going to be a tiny shaky blob somewhere in the middle of your frame. Do you even know what the minimum legal altitude is for the grassy plain location? Because to get this shot, you're going to be below it. And your minimum level airspeed plus a 2-minute turn means you'll be shooting from more than half a mile away, or using such an extreme bank angle that you'd be in real danger of a stall and crash.


You need a helo for this, or....

Make this a CGI shot, where the camera is magic.
Shoot your singe on a green stage on a turntable or with a circular dolly track. Key her into CGI terrain. or CGI mixed with a wide shot from the plane.


I can't believe you can't find an RC plane/helo guy willing to help you for less than the gas and rental on the Cessna.


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Ken MaxwellRe: Any tips for shooting from a Cessna plane?
by on Apr 3, 2012 at 7:49:58 pm

What Todd Terry says, doubled.

One last shot at this:

Since all of the shooting parameters are set in stone, I suggest that you throw you rubber ball away and consider attaching the camera to the wing strut and start/stop it remotely. At lease you will have the camera far enough out to clear any obstacles . . . and the pilot can make the shot.

Please post your video when you make it. I'm sure we could all learn a lot by seeing it.

Good luck,

Ken


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Diego BarrazaRe: Any tips for shooting from a Cessna plane?
by on Apr 3, 2012 at 8:37:48 pm

I´m sensing a lot of negativity here. Ok, maybe it won´t be the most stable shot for sure. But I am getting a lot of dramatic no-no-no input.

I am definitely not going to mount the camera on the wing strut.

I know there are a thousand better ways to do this, but my director works on the spontaneus side of things, and just said this is what we have and lets do it. This will happen this Thursday and I was informed only last Friday. I want to do it the best possible wy with what I have available, and that is what will be done. Imposible is not in my line of thought.

Positive input and personal exerience stories welcome. Evagelism of apocalispis please refrain.

filmmaking-editing-dop-dad


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Todd TerryRe: Any tips for shooting from a Cessna plane?
by on Apr 3, 2012 at 9:46:19 pm

[Diego Barraza] "I´m sensing a lot of negativity here."

It's not negativity, Diego... it's practicality. I'm one of the biggest McGuyvers on the block and known for trying every conceivable way to pull something out of nothing. But this one is a losing battle.

You're asking for the best way to do things, or the way to do things with what you have... and you've been given a lot of advice... and it's advice that you can take or leave.

What you have to realize is that sometimes the best advice is simply "don't do it." Other times there are ways around it, but sometimes there's just not.

Your absolute set-in-stone requirements: You HAVE to use a DSLR with no stabilizing mount. You HAVE to use a Cessnea 172. You HAVE to get a closeup shot of this woman spinning in the grass as the airplane makes tight circles around her. Those are the things that you are requiring, and you're asking for advice on how to make that happen. It won't. Not with that equipment, and create the exact shot that you are envisioning. It won't happen.

I don't care how "spontaneous" the director is, spontaneity doesn't mean that it gets done with the tools that he or she is requiring you to use. At least not and get the smooth professional results that you want.

The director may want this airplane to fly a nice tight smooth rapidly-circling counterclockwise pattern around this actress close enough to get the perfect smooth nice close shot that he wants. He can want that all day, but he's not going to get it... not by a long shot, with that hardware. No matter how much he wants it, the principals of aerodynamics are going to win.

I'm not being negative, not remotely. I'm just going on experience and the knowledge of what can and can't be done. I'm a veteran cinematographer and have shot miles of film and countless reels of tape. I'm also a pilot and know what an airplane can do and what it won't. I'm not negative... I'm a realist. And I don't want anyone to get hurt in the process.

No matter how spontaneous anyone is.

Over and out.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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Ken MaxwellRe: Any tips for shooting from a Cessna plane?
by on Apr 3, 2012 at 10:40:19 pm

Diego wrote: "Positive input and personal exerience stories welcome. Evagelism of apocalispis please refrain."

I don't think anyone is trying to be flippant or apocalyptic, rather with an abundance of experience they want to warn you of adverse possibilities in making your outlined aerial shot.

FYI: Since this is such an important shot for everyone, I would caution that the director will most likely want to ride along on the flite . . . and also take his PA since you will have an extra seat, and pile in a couple of still cameras. This should load down the 172 pretty well.
Your camera will most likely be shooting forward at aproximately 10-11 o'clock, to frame-out the strut and prop. That should look nice for the coastal view. However, the camera most likely will need to be tilted and panned some as the pilot climbs and banks over the cliffs. . . then frame back as he levels over the countryside.
You will most likely have to pan to 9 o'clock, along the left wing axis, for the pilot to make a continuously banked left turn around the talent. At this point you will have the wing strut dead in the middle of the frame.
If you decide not to pan to 9 o'clock, rather to hold the earlier 10-11 o'clock fixed position, then the pilot will need to point the nose of the airplane down and crab the nose left and into a steep left spiral in order to keep the talent in the frame. You will then crash the airplane into the ground.

The director should make advanced plans for where he wants the bodies sent.

Ahh, show biz.

Ken

P.S. The camera must have flexibility to pan and tilt and an un-encumbered view in order to maintain good compositional integrity That's why everyone has been so insistent with their recommendations. Otherwise, regardless of what the director envisions, without the right equipment and without heeding an experienced pro's advise you're guaranteed a flop.


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Mark SuszkoRe: Any tips for shooting from a Cessna plane?
by on Apr 3, 2012 at 8:39:14 pm

At least in the US, you need a special permission and an FAA certified safety inspector to oversee the external attachment of any device to an aircraft. I agree a go-pro suitably attached to the wing/strut interface,wired to an in-cabin monitor might have some chance of working, since the pilot is trained to fly circles around a point by aiming his wingtip. Still, you're askign for some very precise marksmanship for anything but a super wide shot.


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Mark SuszkoRe: Any tips for shooting from a Cessna plane?
by on Apr 10, 2012 at 3:02:04 pm

Don't leave us hanging, Diego: how did it turn out?


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Ken MaxwellRe: Any tips for shooting from a Cessna plane?
by on Apr 11, 2012 at 2:40:09 am

Mark - If you don't get a reply, you'll know.

Ken


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Todd TerryRe: Any tips for shooting from a Cessna plane?
by on Apr 11, 2012 at 3:09:05 am

I was just about to say that.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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Ken MaxwellRe: Any tips for shooting from a Cessna plane?
by on Apr 11, 2012 at 3:46:01 pm

I guess we know.

Hope that the re-shoot/re-write goes better for Diego.


NEXT!


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Diego BarrazaRe: Any tips for shooting from a Cessna plane?
by on Apr 22, 2012 at 2:36:46 pm

Hello again creative bovines, sorry it has taken me a couple of weeks to get back on the subject but have been extremely busy.

Many thanks for all those of you that have been with me with their great advice and knowledge in this unorthodox approach to aerial cinematography. I have to say that all of your experiences and comments helped me greatly.

Here is the low down: The answer to all our concerns was one or many, depends on how you view it… COVERAGE.

The action was simple, a woman and companion walking a circle in the great grass expand near the cliffs of the coastline. We scheduled the shooting in two parts. In the morning we shot on location from the ground on a very cold day. Handheld, tripod, steadycam and long jib arm were used to follow the action and talent in different takes. We had all morning to get creative and the light was a flat English grey that gave us even exposure all day. I tried my best to shoot mostly tilting down on the talent to keep the horizon low and thus avoid the blown out white background.

The aerial shots were schedule for the afternoon; the airfield was very close to the location so that was ideal. From days before there were concerns on what we could get with the resources that I wrote in the back posts, ie: Cessna plane and 7D; stability and to be able to see the talent from more than 500 feet distance. There is a Spanish saying that “ he who has a friend has a treasure”, and in this occasion it certainly was. We got in contact with our friend Ben, great cameraman who had just bought and received a RED EPIC package the week before. He was more than eager to test his new baby and he said he would come along for the shoot. With the ability to shoot at 120 fps 4k footage, the RED EPIC is just a beauty of camera and he was more than happy to test it out with a flight above a dramatic location. Back in the airfield, again we set out to get as much coverage from the plane as we could. Ben rode in front window with the RED EPIC hadheld and sporting a 50mm Zeiss Ultra Prime pointing out a open window, shooting at 120Fps. I stuck a GOPro 2 to the corner of the backwindow for the wide sweeping look and handheld a Manfrotto Fig Rig with a stabilized canon 55 to 250mm Zoom glass pointing out through the plexiglass. It was gusty as hell and the little Cesnna was up and down most of the time. We were struggling with the handholding of the cameras as the plane buffeted. The pilot was a great professional and did some figure of eight turns on the marked flight path. We could see the talent in the ground no problem, the circle was marked with bird feed on the ground so you could see it from above clearly and without any environmental damage to the grassland. The ride was quite bumpy but there were lulls when the plane would glide smoothly. As we headed back to the airfield we could see the afternoon streaks of light piercing the clouds and reflecting on the sea as in the old bible films when God speaks. On landing the grassy airfield the pilots remarks were “…we have cheated death once more”. Certainly.

Upon review, I have to say that the shot does not work as long traveling aerial shot that sweeps the dramatic landscape and ends in the talent, but there are more than enough great shots within the footage to piece out a sequence with good editing. The EPIC at 120fps gets the action looking smooth as babies bum, and you can even zoom in the 4k frame and get some really good details. The 7D shooting at different zoom steps gave decent amount of detail as we got circling on top of the action in the ground, we can actually see the woman walking quite well with segments were the shot steadied out. The Gopro was brilliant at getting the wide angle of the cliffs and sea; the vibration is not that visible for 200 dollar camera stuck in the plexiglass, it delivered some very usable cutaway material. The sun rays piercing the clouds look beautiful on it.

The director was happy with all the coverage from the morning and afternoon, she is compiling the sequence and it is all working for her needs. We learned and keep on learning. Thank you again everybody for your support. For disclosure issues I will not be able to post any video.



filmmaking-editing-dop-dad


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Todd TerryRe: Any tips for shooting from a Cessna plane?
by on Apr 23, 2012 at 4:30:09 am

Well, we're glad you got usable footage... but much more glad that everyone is now on the ground safely.

I hope in hindsight now that you've tried it that it doesn't seem like we were quite the "prognosticators of doom" that we might have appeared before the shoot.

I think the lesson to be taken from this is "compromise." If your director had continued to unwaveringly insist on the original gear (DSLR with a 70mm lens) and original shot plan (long continuous panoramic sweeping shot leading to a spiraling closeup of the talent), the cursing would probably still be going on. Fortunately you were able to radically upgrade your gear, overcrank to smooth the bumps, and change the edit so that short little shorts would work instead of one long one.

One bit of after-the-fact and now-useless advice... pilots tend to be a fairly fearless group (except me, I'm a pretty chicken pilot). If your pilot said you "cheated death" to get the shot... you can believe him. I wouldn't recommend doing that again, no shot on any project whatsoever is worth that. I've known a few who've taken that gamble an lost. And they don't let you play again.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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