Creative COW SIGN IN :: SPONSORS :: ADVERTISING :: ABOUT US :: CONTACT US :: FAQ
Creative COW's LinkedIn GroupCreative COW's Facebook PageCreative COW on TwitterCreative COW's Google+ PageCreative COW on YouTube
FORUMS:listlist (w/ descriptions)archivetagssearchhall of famerecent posts

How to do this? Rotation/lighting

COW Forums : Cinematography

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Share on Facebook
Andy HubrightHow to do this? Rotation/lighting
by on Feb 6, 2012 at 8:59:38 pm

Hey everybody.. First time posting to this forum! Some of you have probably already helped me in the past with various posts without even knowing it, so thank you for that!

I have a shoot coming up and for part of it they want to do something similar to this:





I have a white infiniti studio booked, I have the lighting figured out for the interviews, but my question is how to get a product to rotate like the iphone so smoothly - i realize that for their video, it was probably a 3d rendering or drawing, but I'd really like to do a similar thing in real life.

They have a technological hardware product that is about the size of a cable TV box, which is what needs to be filmed.

Any suggestions on how to do this? I will be using a 5D MkII for sure. If you need any other info just let me know,

Thank you!

Andy


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Rick WiseRe: How to do this? Rotation/lighting
by on Feb 6, 2012 at 9:22:03 pm

Likely that iPhone was shot live. Using a turntable. Possibly a small support to lift the phone off the surface that is rotoscoped out in post. Otherwise, on a white surface that matches the white background. The object has to be centered exactly, otherwise it will swing around the screen and not just rotate on itself. This is not easy to do. You need a professional turntable (props/rental house) which allows you to adjust the speed exactly as you want it.

Pulling off the perfect camera move is also no easy task. It is possible this was shot with high enough resolution that the entire pull was done in post. But I think it was shot live all the way.

Rick Wise
Cinematographer
San Francisco Bay Area
http://www.RickWiseDP.com


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Mark SuszkoRe: How to do this? Rotation/lighting
by on Feb 6, 2012 at 10:38:49 pm

The cheap way is to power a lazy susan using a battery-powered barbecue grill rotisserie motor. Or a wind-up kitchen timer motor.

The very precise, speed-controlled and repeatable way is to use a stepper motor, driven by a controller circuit, or a servo with continuous rotation capability. Those, along with the other parts you might need, can be found many places but I'll suggest http://www.servocity.com

Specifically this page:

http://www.servocity.com/html/vertical_shaft_worm_drive_gear.html


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Todd TerryRe: How to do this? Rotation/lighting
by on Feb 6, 2012 at 10:48:03 pm

Yes, a turntable is your friend.

We've tried different things, not having access to a "real" photographer's turntable.

Several times we have used, with pretty good success, a regular phonographic turntable (our general manager's wife's old one rescued from their attic). We took the drive belt off of it (after discarding the Peter Frampton LP), and on top made a much bigger white foamcore "platter" which sat on top of it. The moves weren't precisely repeatable, of course, but we were able to make some smooth rotations (and put light pencil guide marks for stopping and starting on the edge of the foamcore). We did have a slightly visible "horizon" at the far edge of the platter... but in one spot it didn't matter at all (in fact it looked cool), and in the other we masked it out (with a little bit of rotoscoping, too). Having tried several things, we never found anything like a lazy susan that would spin as smoothly and effortless as a phono turntable... which does spin very well.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Mark SuszkoRe: How to do this? Rotation/lighting
by on Feb 7, 2012 at 3:41:54 pm

Terry, click the video link on that second link I posted in this thread, just before your response.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Todd TerryRe: How to do this? Rotation/lighting
by on Feb 7, 2012 at 4:05:16 pm

That's interesting, Mark, and not very expensive.

I note though that they do mention "extremely slow and smooth rotational motion." My bet is that that would be a lot slower than I personally would ever use. The few turntable shots we've ever done were, I'd guess, something like 4 or 5 seconds for a full rotation (though we usually only did half or quarter revolutions). I'm betting that industrial gadget is mucho slower than that. A good tool, though, if that's what you're needing, and probably could create an excellent camera platform for timelapse as well.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Mark SuszkoRe: How to do this? Rotation/lighting
by on Feb 7, 2012 at 9:27:52 pm

Shoot it slow and dead-smooth... then speed-ramp it in post to taste?

There's other systems on that site that can turn faster and at all kinds of variable speeds and reversable directions.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Mark D'AgostinoRe: How to do this? Rotation/lighting
by on Feb 8, 2012 at 4:55:42 pm

We recently did a rotating shot transitioning from a 1910 candlestick phone to a smart phone. We used our 25 year old, 20lb. turntable with a 700lb. capacity hooked up to a variac, (I could have used any portable lighting dimmer). The variac let us set our speed and the heavy turntable was rock solid smooth. We were able to slow the turntable to about a 30 second rotation.In post we made minor speed corrections for the timing we needed. The tricky part for us from a lighting stand point, especially with the very shiny smart phone, was that this was a green screen shot. Lots of large soft bounce light, flags and distance from the green...

Mark D'Agostino
http://www.synergeticproductions.com


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Todd TerryRe: How to do this? Rotation/lighting
by on Feb 8, 2012 at 5:46:33 pm

Here's the sample of the down-n-dirty turntable shot we did for a commercial for a local realtor. This was just using the old photographic turntable that I mentioned earlier... with a big round white foamcore "platter" added to the top of the turntable.

It's not perfect by any means (and a tiny bit shaky if you look closely), but it was quick and easy. This was a very low-budget spot so the client didn't have funds for us to do it any better, but I think it was passable....





T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Mark D'AgostinoRe: How to do this? Rotation/lighting
by on Feb 8, 2012 at 5:52:08 pm

I imagine your client was thrilled. Very nice, low budget or not. How did you do the zoom into the screen closeup?

Mark D'Agostino
http://www.synergeticproductions.com


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Todd TerryRe: How to do this? Rotation/lighting
by on Feb 8, 2012 at 7:34:13 pm

[Mark D'Agostino] "How did you do the zoom into the screen closeup?"

Well it was a fake zoom (pretty obviously)... you can see you lose a fair little bit of resolution on the bit of the computer bezel that you can see at the edge of the screen.

The stuff that's on the screen is fake (also pretty obviously), motion-tracked onto the computer screen... and that fake screenshot artwork was created at much much greater resolution, so that when we did the digital zoom into it, it still had greater-than 1080 effective resolution for the zoomed-in portion that was used.

We actually did shoot it practically, with the company's real website on the screen, but it just didn't photograph quite good looking enough... so we replaced it with the fake screen then added back in things like the moving screen reflection when it spins etc to try to give it a more realistic look. Had we had more time or money I could have probably got it better looking.... but it is what it is.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Mark D'AgostinoRe: How to do this? Rotation/lighting
by on Feb 8, 2012 at 7:41:28 pm

We did something quite similar but I'm always curious if someone has a different method. We get a bit insulated up here in Upstate NY

Mark D'Agostino
http://www.synergeticproductions.com


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Rick AmundsonRe: How to do this? Rotation/lighting
by on Feb 8, 2012 at 5:56:25 pm

We use a turn table marketed to bakeries. It is reversible and speed adjustable and was very inexpensive compared to "commercial" turn tables. It's not for heavy duty uses but we have shot a LOT of cell phones on it. Getting them to stand up is the tricky part as each phone has a different shape, center point, weight distribution and mounting option. We have used tacky wax, USB plugs taped green and keyed out, carpet tape and giant paper clips, clear plastic run behind the battery, etc. The key is to give yourself enough room along the bottom to rotoscope out the rig.

Best of luck!

Rick Amundson
Producer/Director/DP
Screenscape Studios
Bravo Romeo Entertainment
http://www.screenscapestudios.com
http://www.bravoromeo.com
http://www.indeliblemovie.com


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Andy HubrightRe: How to do this? Rotation/lighting
by on Feb 9, 2012 at 2:38:01 am

Thank you all for the response... great advice.

Only questions I have remaining is this:

The cyclorama we are using is white.. and I was wondering if it would be better for whatever support I use to be green, or white? I was thinking a couple thick dowel rods or something similar coming up from the base of whatever is turning. I'm asking because it seems the green would be better, and I just key it out in post... however, im worried about the shadows directly underneath the unit. SO - that being said, what the eff is rotoscoping? i trying googling it and I looked at a few videos on youtube concerning it, however im not sure how it would be apply in this situation. If anyone could clear that newbie question up for me Id greatly appreciate it.

Thanks!


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Todd TerryRe: How to do this? Rotation/lighting
by on Feb 9, 2012 at 3:25:39 am

[Andy Hubright] "...what the eff is rotoscoping? i trying googling it..."


Rotoscoping is when you cut out or matte out a subject from its background, in the strictest sense by manually drawing or creating a mask in each frame.

Say, for example, you have a shot of someone walking across a room. You want to replace the background environment they are in, but it is a real practical shot... not shot on greenscreen or bluescreen or anything easily keyable. In that case you would, frame-by-frame, hand draw a mask separating the character from the background and allow you to replace it with another. There are some tips and tricks an a little bit of automation that can help with rotoscoping, but it can be a very tedious process.

In the turntable example I posted above, there was only a little bit of rotoscoping. Because our big white turntable platter was round, the "horizon" behind it appeared curved. We wanted it straight, like a true horizon. A narrow background matte with a new straight horizon was created to cover the curved one, which was simply overlayed on the shot. But because the computer was rotating its shape was constantly changing... thus the overlay horizon mask had to be rotoscoped out in the frames where it would have crossed the object. Fortunately, since the spin was pretty fast there weren't that many frames that had to be hand roto'd.

As for whether to shoot your project practically or with greenscreen... that's your call. You could do it either way. I've shot quite a few "white limbo" projects... and I'd say mine were about 50/50... about half the time I shot practically in a real white environment, and the other half I greenscreened. There were even a couple that were hybrids, a bit of both.

Practical white limbo environments can look better, in my opinion... but they can be harder to do, lighting wise. The greenscreen environements of course allow you to use any background you like, but can sometimes look artificial.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Andy HubrightRe: How to do this? Rotation/lighting
by on Feb 13, 2012 at 5:00:16 pm

Ok so I've decided to use a turntable to spin the unit.. I will be making a platform on top of the turntable and then somehow mounting vertical supports (dowels or something) to another platform 2-3 feet higher which the unit will sit on. Should the vertical supports be painted chroma key green, or white?? (remember the background is a white cyclorama)


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Share on Facebook


FORUMSTUTORIALSFEATURESVIDEOSPODCASTSEVENTSSERVICESNEWSLETTERNEWSBLOGS

Creative COW LinkedIn Group Creative COW Facebook Page Creative COW on Twitter
© 2014 CreativeCOW.net All rights are reserved. - Privacy Policy

[Top]