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6.5 is out there...

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Miłosz Koziol6.5 is out there...
by on Sep 7, 2012 at 6:52:12 pm

... is it worth it?
Apart from audio I fail to see benefit. Am I wrong?


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Daniel FromeRe: 6.5 is out there...
by on Sep 7, 2012 at 7:32:56 pm

This is Avid we're talking about: they don't come guns blazing with a new paradigm. That being said...

Here is a shortlist of the main additions/changes:

New codecs:
1) DNx80 and DNx100 for DSLR or other 4:2:0 sources or whatever you want

2) jpeg2000 (aka j2k): 10bit 4:2:2 visually lossless at any broadcast resolution. 30-50Mbits for SD. 90-150Mbits for HD. This is a favourite codec for me: since very often 1080p/23.98 material hovers around the 100Mbits data rate and it is better than ProResHQ in terms of quality (which is twice the bitrate).

Under the hood improvement:
- way faster AMA-->transcode processes. Transcoding will now often smother your CPU usage, especially if using the new J2K codec -- flatlines even 12 core workstations - and transcodes multitudes faster than real-time (on multicore systems). In general, a quad core i7 will still see slightly faster transcodes into DnxHD than j2k, where as 8 and 12 core machines will see dramatic speed increases in favour of j2k.

- improved quicktime h264 cpu/speed: H264 exporting now uses 4 to 5 cores on average - often finishes 1080p/23.98 renders at about 80% of real-time (single pass, quality-based exports). Also far less crashes when exporting long sequences.

- improved performance with most 3rd party video IO devices, especially blackmagic devices.
overall much snappier response on the timeline, more similar to v5.5 snappiness (there is 1 known bug with 'fast scrub' that is being addressed in a 6.5.1 patch, but it is not major).

UI/Workflow additions:
- Avid can now "search and find" batches of AMA clips and automatically relink them, similar to how FCP does this.
- You can now select multiple non-adjacent clips and move them around as a unit, without needing to select the filler between them.

- The Relink window now offers more options for relinking to files of different of metadata.
- You can now turn off automatic AMA volume mounting (but still have AMA enabled).
- You can still use classic XDCAM and P2 import functions while AMA is on.
- full Redcolor 3 and Redgamma 3 support


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Neil GoodmanRe: 6.5 is out there...
by on Sep 7, 2012 at 8:54:46 pm

whats the fast scrub bug with bm i/o? and what drivers are you using for it? im on desktop video 9.5.3 which were the most solid for me on 6.0.3

the only thing holding me back from jumping in is the compatibility with Black Magic. The current combo of sw/drivers im using now is the best its been, so unless its indeed better im gonna stick with this for now.

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - NBC/Universal


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denise quesnelRe: 6.5 is out there...
by on Sep 8, 2012 at 12:02:28 am

Hi Daniel, do you know of any changes they have made to stereoscopic 3d? I looked through Avid's content sheet but there was very little info on it.

Stereo 3D Post Production Specialist, adjunct researcher at the S3D Centre in Vancouver, BC.
The S3D Centre is a premiere research, curriculum/training, production and post-production facility.
http://www.s3dcentre.ca


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Michael PhillipsRe: 6.5 is out there...
by on Sep 8, 2012 at 12:37:51 am

There as no added functionality in the stereo 3D feature set that I have seen. There may have been some fixes to EDL Manager for stereo 3D timelines.

Michael


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Don GreeningRe: 6.5 is out there...
by on Sep 8, 2012 at 4:54:07 am

Pardon my ignorance but is this a free update if you already have MC6 or Symphony 6?

TIA

- Don

Don Greening
A Vancouver Video Production Company
Reeltime Videoworks
http://www.reeltimevideoworks.com


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Miłosz KoziolRe: 6.5 is out there...
by on Sep 8, 2012 at 6:40:20 am

No it isn't. In europe is 500 euro (quite a lot if you ask me )


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Don GreeningRe: 6.5 is out there...
by on Sep 8, 2012 at 7:12:08 am

Okay thank you. You're quite right. The upgrade cost is rather pricey. I don't even have my Symphony 6 installed yet because my new computer isn't going to be here until next week. It's the cost of doing business I guess. Sill, it's upsetting to think that I'll probably have to pay another $1000.00 dollars just for the upgrade. It sounds like the upgrade is worth it though, because the transcoding process within the program is supposed to be quite a bit faster on multi-processor machines, more so than in version 6.0.

- Don

Don Greening
A Vancouver Video Production Company
Reeltime Videoworks
http://www.reeltimevideoworks.com


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Don GreeningRe: 6.5 is out there...
by on Sep 8, 2012 at 9:04:08 pm

If you have MC 6 or Symphony 6 the upgrade cost for 6.5 is $499.00. Versions previous to v.6 is $599.00 USD. In Euro dollars that works out to 389.35 (at the moment) if you already have v.6. Miłosz Koziol said they want 500 Euros for the v.6 upgrade where he is.

- Don

Don Greening
A Vancouver Video Production Company
Reeltime Videoworks
http://www.reeltimevideoworks.com


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Job ter BurgRe: 6.5 is out there...
by on Sep 9, 2012 at 6:13:45 am

The 492 EUR includes VAT, that's around a 20% difference that is not caused or determined by Avid. In a lot of countries, small business can get that VAT back. So the actual price is close, if you take into account the exchange rate over the past few months.


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Warren EigRe: 6.5 is out there...
by on Sep 9, 2012 at 5:35:43 pm

The only thing that sort of sucks is I just bought it before August and now have to spend another $500 to upgrade. AVID is expensive. Most companies I'm used to have at least a 6 month period for a free upgrade.

Oh, well.

Warren Eig
O 310-470-0905


email: warren@babyboompictures.com
website: http://www.babyboompictures.com


http://www.babyboompictures.com/BabyBoomPictures/Doritos.html
http://www.babyboompictures.com/BabyBoomPictures/BOB_DirecTV.html
http://www.babyboompictures.com/BabyBoomPictures/F5_Director_Cut1.html
http://www.babyboompictures.com/BabyBoomPictures/AFX.html
http://www.babyboompictures.com/BabyBoomPictures/KnitWits_Movie.html
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0251670/


EDITING REEL: http://www.babyboompictures.com/BabyBoomPictures/Editing_Reel.html
TITLE DESIGN: http://www.babyboompictures.com/BabyBoomPictures/Titles_Reel.html



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denise quesnelRe: 6.5 is out there...
by on Sep 12, 2012 at 4:52:34 am

Thanks Michael. I am thinking I am going to skip this update, in hope that the next will have even better stereoscopic support, and just maybe a means to edit in HFR timelines.

-----

Stereo 3D Post Production Specialist, adjunct researcher at the S3D Centre in Vancouver, BC.
The S3D Centre is a premiere research, curriculum/training, production and post-production facility.
http://www.s3dcentre.ca


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John PaleRe: 6.5 is out there...
by on Sep 8, 2012 at 5:22:30 pm

None of this info is in the Read Me. With all the complaints about the cost of the upgrade..because it appears minor, based on the official Avid info...you would think they would be shouting about this..l


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Neil GoodmanRe: 6.5 is out there...
by on Sep 8, 2012 at 5:31:44 pm

Regarding Black Magic I/O

what driver are you using, cuase with 9.5.3 things are pretty bad on 6.5

works ok in 6.0.3 still not nearly as snappy as is in SW only wide.


This is a big step back imo.

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - NBC/Universal


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Daniel FromeRe: 6.5 is out there...
by on Sep 8, 2012 at 6:27:48 pm

Hey Neil -

Whoops, looks like I worded that statement wrong. I meant that in general (in software mode) things are snappier. I'm surprised to hear you say that things aren't working out with your blackmagic I/O. Sorry about making that sound misleading.


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Neil GoodmanRe: 6.5 is out there...
by on Sep 8, 2012 at 6:53:28 pm

so in software mode things are fast ? hasnt that always been the case ? You said things are snappier with blackmagic i/o.. how is that the same as software mode?

Im not the only one that has a rocky road with Black Magic and Media Composer, its all over the avid forums.

Things felt most solid with 6.0.3 and desktop video 9.5.3


what combo of software are you using to get fast response with black magic hardware , because you might be the only person out there who is seeing good results ?

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - NBC/Universal


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Daniel FromeRe: 6.5 is out there...
by on Sep 8, 2012 at 7:00:52 pm

Yeah you're right - I'm going to test this more on Monday at work. Sorry about the misleading comment. We did some upgrades at work during this last week - and the performance is likely a factor in those upgrades rather than my (incorrect) assumption that it was the software.

Software speed wise, no - I never thought 6.0 was very fast in that regard. It was a constant complaint of mine that 5.5 was much snappier. They've gotten some of that back - mostly satisfied in that area.


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Bill DawsonRe: 6.5 is out there...
by on Sep 9, 2012 at 3:23:54 pm

Setting the cost issue aside...we use Kona 3 and Kona 3G cards with
MC 6.0.3.1. It it worth installing 6.5? Or wait until 6.5.1? Since we use
Mac computers, it's a pain to have to uninstall and then re-install.

Bill


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Craig HarrisRe: 6.5 is out there...
by on Sep 11, 2012 at 1:57:42 am

AVID... what's the deal with charging an additional $500 for a .5 upgrade?


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Warren EigRe: 6.5 is out there...
by on Sep 11, 2012 at 5:29:48 am

Nothing wrong with spending $500. It's just that I just bought the software two months ago. So no update protection and another $500. It's like Microsoft a little bit.

Warren Eig
O 310-470-0905


email: warren@babyboompictures.com
website: http://www.babyboompictures.com


http://www.babyboompictures.com/BabyBoomPictures/Doritos.html
http://www.babyboompictures.com/BabyBoomPictures/BOB_DirecTV.html
http://www.babyboompictures.com/BabyBoomPictures/F5_Director_Cut1.html
http://www.babyboompictures.com/BabyBoomPictures/AFX.html
http://www.babyboompictures.com/BabyBoomPictures/KnitWits_Movie.html
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0251670/


EDITING REEL: http://www.babyboompictures.com/BabyBoomPictures/Editing_Reel.html
TITLE DESIGN: http://www.babyboompictures.com/BabyBoomPictures/Titles_Reel.html



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Joseph OwensRe: 6.5 is out there...
by on Sep 11, 2012 at 5:02:18 pm

[Warren Eig] "no update protection and another $500."

Yeah, I have my suspicions about this. Feels like a bait-and-switch.

All you Final Cut people? Tell us your key numbers and we'll hook you up with MC or Symphony for just under a thou'. But... then... point upgrades cost, and if you skip one? Then a full upgrade... which would be? Thousands.

They still haven't fixed enough to prompt me to do a full change over. No VANC-out from third-party (ie. Closed Captions to tape)? Maybe they will say that "nobody does that anymore", and that would be 'unfortunate'.

jPo

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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Michael HancockRe: 6.5 is out there...
by on Sep 11, 2012 at 5:39:11 pm

[Joseph Owens] "All you Final Cut people? Tell us your key numbers and we'll hook you up with MC or Symphony for just under a thou'. But... then... point upgrades cost, and if you skip one? Then a full upgrade... which would be? Thousands."

Not really. 6.0 was a major release. 6.5 is a major release. 7 will be a major release. These are all paid upgrades. Anything between a .0 and .5 release is free, and if you don't upgrade Avid still typically patches previous releases (so even though 6.5 is out they'll probably still patch some stuff in 6.0.x).

Also, the major point of contention with most Avid editors is that upgrading from 6 - 6.5 is $500, while it's only $100 more if you're pre-6.x. So if you're on Media Composer or Symphony version 4, 4.5, 5, or 5.5 for example, you pay only $100 more than me, and I'm on version 6.

But that's also kind of par for the course with Avid - upgrades are either priced way too high (compared to their competitors) or are surprisingly low for Avid (I believe there have been $195 upgrades in the past - might have been $295, though).


[Joseph Owens] "They still haven't fixed enough to prompt me to do a full change over. No VANC-out from third-party (ie. Closed Captions to tape)? Maybe they will say that "nobody does that anymore", and that would be 'unfortunate'."

I guess it's one way to continue to sell their hardware.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Michael PhillipsRe: 6.5 is out there...
by on Sep 12, 2012 at 2:26:28 pm

I think part of the debate is whether this release really qualifies as a .5 release when there was no .1, .2, .3, etc. ever released. Depending on which market you serve, and needs in your own workflows, it could be considered a .2 or a .3 and not a full .5.

Now there have been several postings that there will be updates to 6.0.x which will be great. It just seems to me that in planning releases, and not to raise the ire of the Avid user community, they could have planned to release a .5 as well as a "fixes" update via a point release to 6.0.x at the same time. But that takes additional testing and marketing effort and with a reduced workforce is most likely not possible - maybe in the future.

And like many Avid MC features, a lot of them are the start of something bigger that will evolve over time (I hope) and AS02 has the basis for something post types would like which is expanding the J2K codec by rewrapping it with a DCP MXF file format but would also need a Rec.709 -> XYZ color space conversion which leads to input, output and monitoring LUT support...

I would suspect that most people in this community will not find use for Avid Interplay Sphere, AS02, etc. but there is a handful of useful features for "editorial" and conform that will be appreciated. Then the debate becomes how much is that worth. If you editing, 64 voices and ability to drag and drop filler with clips will be nice. If you do a lot of conforms starting with AMA or ending with AMA and use third party tools as part of the process, the ability to relink source on any column and timecode on any timecode column will be a lifesaver. Not the most intuitive UI for making it work, but it does work. Still have some limitations manly based on AMA limitation in my opinion with formats that allow 8 character REEL tracking (Alexa ProRes for example) and AMA's inability to extract that natively could possibly cause some relinking issues if not planned for ahead of time.

There will be an update to the RED AMA plug-in that will support RedColor 3 science (only), unclear at this time is whether that will only work with 6.5 or if it should just work with v6 as well. I suspect the latter, but is only a guess on my part.


Michael


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Mike MostRe: 6.5 is out there...
by on Sep 13, 2012 at 4:09:09 pm

Those AMA changes might also lead to sequence support (i.e., DPX sequences), something I talked to them about at NAB. Right now, the only Avid product where you can get such support is DS. That needs to change, and they seem to know that.


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Michael PhillipsRe: 6.5 is out there...
by on Sep 13, 2012 at 4:50:33 pm

They've "known" for years! It's always been a matter of priority and a bunch of other stuff. Maybe now since the last RIF and sell-off of the consumer side, and declared commitment to the professional space, DPX and similar type functionality will be added. My guess is that Avid add DPX when they add resolution independence and LUT support.

Although anyone can get an AMA license and develop one, DPX seems more like something Avid should do as it is difficult to monetize AMA if you are not a camera company and it's only a conduit to your format. A third party making an AMA plug-in will have difficulty other than a shareware type sale as their is no provision for licensing protection. At least last year at this time when I looked into it for a couple of AMA ideas.

Michael


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Gustavo BermudasRe: 6.5 is out there...
by on Sep 17, 2012 at 6:18:33 pm

Avid is obviously in serious need of cash. In NAB they were doing the $1000 upgrade to Symphony promotion, which it makes sense if you don't own a Media Composer, but since I do I wasn't going to pay that money for color correction tools I don't use, and I'm glad I didn't spend that money, rather buy the Baselight plugin.
And now this half-a** upgrade for $500, it's obviously another indication how desperate they are. Which makes me wonder the future of Avid. I'll do the upgrade, I'll support them, at least they haven't abandoned us like FCP. If Avid is gone, what are the options then?


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Job ter BurgRe: 6.5 is out there...
by on Sep 27, 2012 at 5:11:14 pm

For the past few upgrades, if you skipped one, the next one would only be 100 dollars more. If you skip two or three, still only 100 dollars more. If you want the latest features, upgrade now, the more economical way is to run your current version and upgrade later.


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Justin BarhamRe: 6.5 is out there...
by on Sep 18, 2012 at 2:48:16 am

I can now scroll horizontally if I hold Shift. Not sure if that was in version 6.0 as I skipped it.

- Justin Barham -


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