Avid Real World, Market Share?
by Mark Chesak
on
Sep 7, 2008 at 2:26:00 am
"Over 80 percent of commercials, 85 percent of primetime television and 90 percent of feature films are edited with Avid systems," Tim Wilson said that in 2004.
Does that still hold true in 2008?
I'm teaching an Editing class next week and I want to have up to date information to share with the students.
Thank You,
Mark
Mark David Chesak ACI
(617) 680-6591 • cell-camera
(617) 522-3828 • home
mofopic@aol.com
Mark_Chesak@emerson.edu
180 Green Street -Floor #2 Rear-
Boston, MA 02130-2675 USA
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Re: Avid Real World, Market Share? by grinner hester on Sep 7, 2008 at 1:43:41 pm
This is what has changed drasticly as a result of Adrenaline alone.
FCP is quite the norm now and it's a trand that is RAPIDlY tapering off Avid products from the professional vidiot world.
A great way to see whats what is to mearly surf editing jobs today. Hit mandy.com and see how many FCP gigs are offered compaired to Avid editor gigs and that will be your accurate count for this suite vs that suite. We have not been able to go by Avid's numbers on anything for several years now.
I'd say today it's 60/40 now slated toward other than Avid products and I say that fully agreeing that 4 yeras ago it was an 80% Avid world.
I guess thats my biggest disappointment with Avid. They have spent more time denying this trend than taking steps to mend it.
I don't see them as a major player in years to come.
Re: Avid Real World, Market Share? by Mike Most on Sep 7, 2008 at 1:51:46 pm
>This is what has changed drasticly as a result of Adrenaline alone.
>FCP is quite the norm now and it's a trand that is RAPIDlY tapering off Avid products from the >professional vidiot world.
My guess is that you don't generally work on network television programs and/or studio features, where what you say is absolutely not the case.
Re: Avid Real World, Market Share? by grinner hester on Sep 8, 2008 at 11:48:17 am
I just do broadcast.
I've been on an Avid product since '94. What I have seen over the years is major growth by applications from other companies and the big A allowing them to pass em up.
It's the same with any industry... effort is required to stay on top. When they stopped trying, they got left behind.
thems the facts, brother.
Re: Avid Real World, Market Share? by Job ter Burg on Sep 7, 2008 at 5:03:53 pm
Agreed with Mike. I think that - besides corporate and indy work - commercials might be the territory where FCP has gained far more market share, but primetime and features are quite different. FCP's market share in those areas seems overvalued by the fan base.
I'm pretty sure, though, that the original numbers, as mentioned by Tim Wilson in '04, did indeed include the use of DS, ProTools and Unity, and there are definitely market segments where Avid has lost significant market share.
I can only tell that in my direct line of work, I see the vast majority of my colleagues editing on Avids. Way beyond 70/30 in favor of Avid compared to annything else.
Re: Avid Real World, Market Share? by Oliver Peters on Sep 7, 2008 at 7:58:04 pm
Mark,
Market share is really going to break down by region and niche in the business. If you take a look at US markets outside of NY or LA, then there's been a big shift to FCP in production companies that own their editing gear, small editing boutiques and indie filmmakers. That same group is probably more Avid still in NY or LA. On the other hand, most broadcasters (news, promos) are going to be mainly Avid with some Quantel and Grass Valley in the mix. You'll tend to find FCP here in the creative services departments. In the NY and LA markets where folks are working on studio features and TV shows, that's going to be overwhelmingly Avid. On the other hand, the corporate market would show up a lot of Adobe product.
- Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
www.oliverpeters.com
Re: Avid Real World, Market Share? by Terence Curren on Sep 8, 2008 at 4:57:44 am
One of my favorite subjects! ;-)
Avid has lost a lot of market share in the last 6 years. It is an exponential flow away from them to FCP. Hard to gauge and neither side is going to tell you the truth. I'm in the LA market, which is one of the last holdouts for Avid, but at least 20 percent of this town has gone FCP, and that's a conservative estimate.
Other places, like Florida, have gone overboard for FCP, but Oliver can address that better than I.
Grinner is probably right in his opinion, I truly believe that Avid's time is running out to turn the market back in their direction.
Re: Avid Real World, Market Share? by grinner hester on Sep 8, 2008 at 11:55:13 am
Their revolving door of CEOs did not help. As a new suit would pop up, we could only look at his or her background and speculate what was to come. We have only been able to speculate because we have learned we can't trust anything they say from their advertising to their white sheets.
Lose trust in your clientele and, well, ya lose your clientele.
Now it would seem they are more interested in moving boxes of software in the prosumer market than wrestle their way back as top dog in the broadcast industry. Thing is, they are going against a lot of companies really good at moving boxes off the shelves of best buy. They'll wind up failing at both if they don't hone in on what it is thay wanna be when they grow up.
Re: Avid Real World, Market Share? by Derrick Abeyta on Sep 9, 2008 at 7:47:03 pm
Here's a few notable credits taken from some recent Avid press releases...
NBC coverage of the 2008 Beijing Olympics from Beijing, China. This marks NBC and Avid's fifth consecutive Olympic Games working together. 34 Avid systems for editing, 224TB of Avid Unity(TM) ISIS® shared storage.
The Dark Night - Eight Avid Media Composer systems connected to an Avid Unity MediaNetwork shared-storage solution with 2.88 terabytes of storage.
Entertainment Tonight is one of the largest Avid installations in the world! 34 brand new edit bays and 75 miles worth of cable. 8,000 terabytes of storage.
CBS Relies on New HD Avid Solutions for Democratic and Republican National Convention Coverage.
Re: Avid Real World, Market Share? by Bob Zelin on Sep 11, 2008 at 10:10:33 pm
I take objection to Mike Most's observation, as he now lives in Florida, and about 90% of the facilities in Florida have become FCP facilities. How do I know this - because I built most of them.
I have been with AVID from DAY 1, I am a loyal AVID person, but I need to make a living, and everything in Florida is FCP.
The press releases in LA that you read about are based on RENTAL HOUSES because feature film editors do not own their own equipment. They rent from RENTAL HOUSES, and rental houses (like LA Digital, Moviola, etc.) own AVID systems. As a matter of fact, Mr. Most pointed out to me that most features are STILL edited on AVID Meridian systems at 14:1, and then onlined and conformed at a professional post facility. I don't know of ONE AVID Meridian system still in use in Florida - how many of you out there are still using AVID Meridian systems ?
when you look at the mid level markets, where shows are shot and cut with low budgets, everyone is looking to save money. Every facility owner is looking to save money. Commercial houses in droves in NY are switching to FCP (like Crew Cuts, and I heard that Jump is about to make the change - and there are plenty of others).
Am I sad about this - I sure am - I put in all these AVID's in NY in the 80's and 90's. But I see the change happening. This is like those people who STILL want to belive that Linear ON LINE with an AACOM Axial and 8150 is still the best way to work. Remember, this is my background -I am 52 years old - and I know that anyone that thinks this way is a DINOSAUR.
Does AVID make great products - absolutely. Is the Nitris DX a great box - absolutely. Does anyone in Atlanta, Florida, Chicago, Dallas, Houston, Miami, Seattle, Nashville buy these products like they used to - ABSOLUTELY NOT. FCP has the dramatic market share in these territories.
If you want to see the "losers" that are using FCP, simply look at the press releases from AJA on Creative Cow, or just go to the Blackmagic website, where they constantly show the features and TV shows that are using FCP. Remember, pros who need hardware to output to professional formats from FCP are always using AJA or Blackmagic hardware, so you will see what is being done with FCP on these web sites - not Apple.
Just remember boys and girls, the Quantel Pablo may be the coolest box out there, but there are 10 people in LA that use it - and THATS IT. The rest of us (and I mean professionals) use the cheap stuff. Gentlemen like Mr. Most probably don't feel that an AVID Nitris DX conform is "good enough quality" anyway.
Re: Avid Real World, Market Share? by Mike Most on Sep 14, 2008 at 8:39:28 pm
>take objection to Mike Most's observation, as he now lives in Florida, and about 90% of the facilities in >Florida have become FCP facilities
Bob, Bob, Bob.
Did you actually READ my observation? To quote myself:
>My guess is that you don't generally work on network television programs and/or studio features, >where what you say is absolutely not the case.
I would point out that out of 3 studio features and one film based studio television series (made for a cable network) done in Florida this year, all were/are cut on Avid systems. Two of those projects were at 14:1, and the other two were done using Avid DNxHD 36. How do I know? The facility I work for did/does the front end work on all of them. My statement is absolutely true if you don't try to twist it and imply that I was talking about markets other than network television programs and studio features.
As for living in Florida, while that's true at the moment, the fact is that I've been in Florida about 2 years. I lived in Los Angeles for over 30. That's where I grew up in the business, and that's where my mind still is regarding these things. And I keep in touch with just about everyone I know to make sure I still know what's going on. I don't make these things up, I just report facts. You're lumping devices like Final Cut in with devices like Pablo and Nitris DX - all of these products are intended for very different markets and price points. What you're doing is comparing the single user, DIY world with that of the high end facilities. That's foolish, as these are different environments with different requirements, different expectations, and, yes, often different levels of expertise. That's not putting down those who don't work in high end facilities, it's just an observation that not everyone WANTS to do it themselves, because not everyone believes that's the best way, and not everyone believes they have all of those talents, at least not in equal amounts to those that specialize. So in the markets I described - network television and studio features - the DIY way is not the way it's done, regardless of where you happen to live, and regardless of how many systems you've installed.
And by the way, at least 50-70% of the facilities that were in Florida just a few years ago are now gone. So much for facilities "switching."
