Creative COW SIGN IN :: SPONSORS :: ADVERTISING :: ABOUT US :: CONTACT US :: FAQ
Creative COW's LinkedIn GroupCreative COW's Facebook PageCreative COW on TwitterCreative COW's Google+ PageCreative COW on YouTube
APPLE FINAL CUT PRO:HomeFCP ForumFCP XFCPX TechniquesFCP TutorialsFC ServerBasics ForumPodcastFAQ

10.1 XML Import Test - Appears to be DOA

COW Forums : Apple FCPX Techniques

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Share on Facebook
David Roth Weiss10.1 XML Import Test - Appears to be DOA
by on Sep 20, 2011 at 4:41:34 pm

Sorry to report, but FCP X nirvana is probably not available for download yet.

I just tried to import an XML into X 10.1 from FCP and so far XML Import seems to be dead on arrival.

All FCP XML files are grayed out in the import dialog.

I'd love to know if someone else gets a different result.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Producing Episodic TV with "24" Producer Michael Klick:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-1_Michael-Kl...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Bret WilliamsRe: 10.1 XML Import Test - Appears to be DOA
by on Sep 20, 2011 at 5:03:04 pm

I think they would have mentioned backward compatibility had they achieved it. But only cnet seems to think that.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Andrew RichardsRe: 10.1 XML Import Test - Appears to be DOA
by on Sep 20, 2011 at 5:03:12 pm

From Apple's update page:

"Now you can import and export Final Cut Pro X project and Event information via a rich XML format. XML interchange enables a wide range of third-party workflows, including high-end visual effects, color grading, and media asset management. Blackmagic Design’s DaVinci Resolve, Square Box System’s CatDV, and many other third-party applications will offer XML-based workflows with Final Cut Pro X. (emphasis mine)

This is an all-new XML shema (AXEL), so it isn't going to import FCP7 XML. Any third parties like they mention will need to develop a new parse for this flavor of XML.

Best,
Andy


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


David Roth WeissRe: 10.1 XML Import Test - Appears to be DOA
by on Sep 20, 2011 at 6:05:27 pm

[Andrew Richards] "This is an all-new XML shema (AXEL), so it isn't going to import FCP7 XML. Any third parties like they mention will need to develop a new parse for this flavor of XML.
"


Interesting! One would think that in the interest of fairness in marketing that information should be coming directly from Apple rather than from you Andrew.

If FCP 10.1 only imports XMLs from FCP 10.1, Apple should have spelled that out loud and clear. Every press release I've read today implies simply that XML Import/Export has been added to the 10.1 release. Nowhere is there any mention that it only supports special FCP X XMLs.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Producing Episodic TV with "24" Producer Michael Klick:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-1_Michael-Kl...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Simon UbsdellRe: 10.1 XML Import Test - Appears to be DOA
by on Sep 20, 2011 at 6:08:44 pm

To be fair, Apple are talking about it as "a rich XML format" acknowledging that there is some difference - though they haven't exactly flagged up its limitations vis-a-vis legacy XML.

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

David Roth WeissRe: 10.1 XML Import Test - Appears to be DOA
by on Sep 20, 2011 at 6:22:59 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "To be fair, Apple are talking about it as "a rich XML format" acknowledging that there is some difference - though they haven't exactly flagged up its limitations vis-a-vis legacy XML."

To most human beings I know the term "rich" does not imply different, it implies better.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Producing Episodic TV with "24" Producer Michael Klick:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-1_Michael-Kl...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Simon UbsdellRe: 10.1 XML Import Test - Appears to be DOA
by on Sep 20, 2011 at 6:37:03 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "
To most human beings I know the term "rich" does not imply different, it implies better."


Well put and I totally agree - it certainly shouldn't be used to mean "less functional" and "not backwards compatible" which is what it clearly is intended to mean in this case.

But then they've shown that they're pretty good with reconfiguring the way language gets used ...

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Chris HarlanRe: 10.1 XML Import Test - Appears to be DOA
by on Sep 20, 2011 at 7:19:33 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "But then they've shown that they're pretty good with reconfiguring the way language gets used ..."

That would be the PR department's own little magnetic timeline.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Mark MoracheRe: 10.1 XML Import Test - Appears to be DOA
by on Sep 20, 2011 at 8:34:40 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "To most human beings I know the term "rich" does not imply different, it implies better."

Yes, and the term "version ten" implies three steps up from version 7, not a giant step sideways. #snark

---------
FCX. She tempts me, abuses me, beats me up, makes me feel worthless, then in the end she comes around, helps me get my work done, gives me hope and I can't stop thinking about her.

Mark Morache
Avid/Xpri/FCP7/FCX
Evening Magazine,Seattle, WA
http://fcpx.wordpress.com


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Andrew RichardsRe: 10.1 XML Import Test - Appears to be DOA
by on Sep 20, 2011 at 6:45:26 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "Apple should have spelled that out loud and clear. Every press release I've read today implies simply that XML Import/Export has been added to the 10.1 release. Nowhere is there any mention that it only supports special FCP X XMLs."

Apple's language, which I highlighted in my previous post, implies that it is an XML format specific to FCP X Proejcts and Events:

"import and export Final Cut Pro X project and Event information via a rich XML format"

Marketing 101 is accentuate the positive. They aren't going to play up limitations in press releases, but they didn't lie either. Are you sure you didn't see "XML import and export" and immediately infer they had legacy XML import? I can see why it would be easy to jump to that conclusion, especially when everyone wants to be able to migrate their legacy FCP projects into FCP X somehow.

Best,
Andy


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

David Roth WeissRe: 10.1 XML Import Test - Appears to be DOA
by on Sep 20, 2011 at 7:14:08 pm

[Andrew Richards] "Are you sure you didn't see "XML import and export" and immediately infer they had legacy XML import? I can see why it would be easy to jump to that conclusion, especially when everyone wants to be able to migrate their legacy FCP projects into FCP X somehow.
"


No Andrew, I certainly was not expecting full support of legacy projects, I simply wanted to see what it did do. The fact is, there isn't anything it does do. Not a single XML file shows up that's not grayed-out.

Furthermore, I just tested to to see if XML Export was working, and it's not working from a 10.1 timeline. So, what does that mean or imply to you?

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Producing Episodic TV with "24" Producer Michael Klick:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-1_Michael-Kl...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Andrew RichardsRe: 10.1 XML Import Test - Appears to be DOA
by on Sep 20, 2011 at 7:50:11 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "I just tested to to see if XML Export was working, and it's not working from a 10.1 timeline. So, what does that mean or imply to you?"

It implies you are inside a project timeline when you attempt to export the XML (just guessing). You need to highlight a project or event in their respective browser panes and then go to File > Export XML. Apparently, we don't get to export project XMLs from within a timeline.

If that isn't what you are doing and seeing, please share a bit more of what you are doing and seeing. It works perfectly for me. I just exported two event .fcpxml files and two project .fcpxml files and both imported right back in.

Best,
Andy


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


David Roth WeissRe: 10.1 XML Import Test - Appears to be DOA
by on Sep 20, 2011 at 7:58:05 pm

[Andrew Richards] "You need to highlight a project or event in their respective browser panes and then go to File > Export XML. Apparently, we don't get to export project XMLs from within a timeline."

When I highlight a project or event Export XML is grayed out, so I'll acknowledge something is clearly wrong here if you guys are getting different results.

I'll try a system reboot and see if that affects anything.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Producing Episodic TV with "24" Producer Michael Klick:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-1_Michael-Kl...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

David Roth WeissRetraction: Okay, it works after a reboot
by on Sep 20, 2011 at 8:10:33 pm

[David Roth Weiss] " I'll acknowledge something is clearly wrong here if you guys are getting different results.

I'll try a system reboot and see if that affects anything."


Okay, rebooted system and now XML works. Odd, since I'd just rebooted the machine before testing.

Sorry for creating a stir everyone.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Producing Episodic TV with "24" Producer Michael Klick:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-1_Michael-Kl...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Marvin HoldmanRe: 10.1 XML Import Test - Appears to be DOA
by on Sep 20, 2011 at 7:17:07 pm

@ Andrew-

XML shema (AXEL)

I assume shema=schema... right?

What is AXEL?

Marvin Holdman
Production Manager
Tourist Network
8317 Front Beach Rd, Suite 23
Panama City Beach, Fl
phone 850-234-2773 ext. 128
cell 850-585-9667
skype username - vidmarv


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Andrew RichardsRe: 10.1 XML Import Test - Appears to be DOA
by on Sep 20, 2011 at 7:36:37 pm

[Marvin Holdman] "I assume shema=schema... right?

What is AXEL?"


Yes, schema, typo.

AXEL is Apple eXchange Editing Language, Apple's name for the new schema. Though in the XMLs themselves they simply call the DOCTYPE "fcpxml". AXEL is referenced in the Resources within the FCPX app bundle. Maybe AXEL is just an internal code they won't be using publicly.

Best,
Andy


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Andrew RichardsRe: 10.1 XML Import Test - Appears to be DOA
by on Sep 21, 2011 at 3:31:36 am

Well, it seems AXEL ain't the same as FCPXML. So I was wrong to conflate the two. AXEL is some other thing according to Philip Hodgetts.

Best,
Andy


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

James CudeRe: 10.1 XML Import Test -
by on Sep 20, 2011 at 5:03:24 pm

Hmm- I'd imagine if that feature were enabled Apple would tout it on the updates page but they don't. So it's not really 'DOA' so much as 'never promised.'

Instead it says:
"Now you can import and export Final Cut Pro X project and Event information via a rich XML format. XML interchange enables a wide range of third-party workflows, including high-end visual effects, color grading, and media asset management. Blackmagic Design’s DaVinci Resolve, Square Box System’s CatDV, and many other third-party applications will offer XML-based workflows with Final Cut Pro X."

Sounds like this is still a third party opportunity for now.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Craig SeemanRe: 10.1 XML Import Test -
by on Sep 20, 2011 at 5:15:06 pm

But it does seem like something may eventually be done to get FCP7 to spit out the new XML format. Let's just hope it's not a $500 "quacker"



Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Andrew RichardsRe: 10.1 XML Import Test -
by on Sep 20, 2011 at 5:19:10 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Let's just hope it's not a $500 "quacker""

I bet there will be several of varying levels of sophistication with a range of prices.

Best,
Andy


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

T. PaytonRe: 10.1 XML Import Test -
by on Sep 20, 2011 at 5:25:09 pm

The whole point of XML is so that different systems can read and write data. Therefore as long as this new XML format is documented, it will be an easy task to make a translator.

I started creating a translator that would take a FCP 7 to iMovie project (which is XML) and therefore FCP X and while I was able to get it to work on simple items, the iMovie XML is not a documented format, therefore I hit a wall.

The new XML format will be documented (Apple said Blackmagic, etc. will be creating import/export capabilities) so just give it some time, maybe even just a day and there will be translators. ;)

------
T. Payton
OneCreative, Albuquerque


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Erik LundbergRe: 10.1 XML Import Test -
by on Sep 20, 2011 at 5:15:25 pm

But now at least, since FCPX is now using the same basic way of communicating , there should be a viable way to get someone to make a translation from a FCP7 flavoured XML to a FCPX flavoured XML.

Erik Lundberg

Technical Director, Media Technology, University of Gothenburg, Sweden


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

James CudeRe: 10.1 XML Import Test -
by on Sep 20, 2011 at 5:34:57 pm

I"m guessing an FCP 7 translator will not be impossible. If you do a quick export of your XML from an X project you'll see the XML is very understandable- as XML generally is. It's wide open for an enterprising (no pun intended) developer to take it a step further.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Erik LundbergRe: 10.1 XML Import Test -
by on Sep 20, 2011 at 7:46:20 pm

The XML from 10.1 seems to be very much the old familiar xml version 1.0 we (or at least some of us) has been staring at for (in my case) at least 8 years now (including the ?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"? -tag...). They might have had to make up a bunch of new markers and tags and stuff to get this working, but it's not that alien as what they threatened us with in the FAQ. The things the exporter (for now) misses are settings on published parameters on Motion templates. Which surely must be something they (=apple) can address. Either way this reassures me that there now are means to get things (with a little translational help) into this island to and from other vessels.

Erik Lundberg

Technical Director, Media Technology, University of Gothenburg, Sweden


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Lance MoodyRe: 10.1 XML Import Test -
by on Sep 20, 2011 at 8:03:46 pm

I am cross posting to say that I did export an XML timeline from X and then reimported back into X and it went perfectly.

Lance



Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Andrew RichardsRe: 10.1 XML Import Test -
by on Sep 20, 2011 at 8:11:53 pm

[Erik Lundberg] "The XML from 10.1 seems to be very much the old familiar xml version 1.0 we (or at least some of us) has been staring at for (in my case) at least 8 years now (including the ?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"? -tag...). They might have had to make up a bunch of new markers and tags and stuff to get this working, but it's not that alien as what they threatened us with in the FAQ."

XML v1 and UTF-8 encoding is just the standard header for XML syntax. The FCP X DTD is fcpxml, which is new. The DTD for legacy FCP was xmeml.

Apple has not yet posted developer documentation for FCPXML (aka AXEL).

Best,
Andy


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Erik LundbergRe: 10.1 XML Import Test -
by on Sep 20, 2011 at 8:19:42 pm

Agreed. And nerely every piece of software that we use that thrives on XML has their markup base. Yes, they've had to change things around inbetween 7 and X, but that's far from inventing a new and improved secret way of writing XML (remeber, "XML was stoneage, and we now have found the holy grail of markup languages!" according to apple just a while back). Of course it couldn't be the same XML. X does things that 7 didn't (and in some ways didn't need to). Now it's more of the wait and see-game to find out who makes the feature usable (apart from exporting and importing back into X)...

Erik Lundberg

Technical Director, Media Technology, University of Gothenburg, Sweden


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Kim HillRe: 10.1 XML Import Test -
by on Sep 21, 2011 at 7:58:33 am

FCPX has a different data structure, compared to FCP7. It's not about a "new and improved secret way of writing XML."

There's no simple solution here. Different data structures just don't map to one another. There are ways to bring FCP7 material into FCPX, but it's a matter of how much organization you're willing to shed, because there's no way to map one structure to the other, 1:1.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Erik LundbergRe: 10.1 XML Import Test -
by on Sep 21, 2011 at 12:47:47 pm

[Kim Hill] "Different data structures just don't map to one another. There are ways to bring FCP7 material into FCPX, but it's a matter of how much organization you're willing to shed, because there's no way to map one structure to the other, 1:1."

Agreed.

Erik Lundberg

Technical Director, Media Technology, University of Gothenburg, Sweden


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Chris HarlanRe: 10.1 XML Import Test -
by on Sep 20, 2011 at 8:26:13 pm

[Erik Lundberg] "Either way this reassures me that there now are means to get things (with a little translational help) into this island to and from other vessels."

If what I've seen is correct, we are going to need quite a bit more than translational help to get on and off this island. First off, you are going to need a pretty good pendulum to track the island's movements--we have one here in LA--and you are going to need a submarine since the Island itself is blocked from view by some sort of time distortion barrier. Of course, a good storm might throw your ship there, and you CAN enter by plane, but it is a rough ride in.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Ricky DominguezRe: 10.1 XML Import Test -
by on Sep 20, 2011 at 8:27:49 pm

Final Cut Pro X XML Format:

http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/FinalCutProX/Reference...


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Daniel FromeRe: 10.1 XML Import Test - Appears to be DOA
by on Sep 21, 2011 at 1:30:00 am

Yeah, they didn't fix anything. They implemented a new version of XML that isn't backwards compatible with FCP, or cross-compatible with Premiere Pro, or even Logic Studio.

They are touting the name "XML" as if it carries the same weight as the XML standard we're used to hearing about, yet nothing works with it.

They might as well have named it "XML-X" format.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Bobby FishboughRe: 10.1 XML Import Test - Appears to be DOA
by on Sep 21, 2011 at 7:29:22 pm

From CatDV 9 Quickstart Manual

Final Cut Pro X

Apple's new Final Cut Pro X application uses a completely different project format which is incompatible with FCP 6 and 7. With the FCP X 10.0.1 update it is again possible to exchange clips and sequences between CatDV and FCP X, using the new .fcpxml file format which CatDV 9 can read and write.
This provides a way to migrate FCP 7 projects over to FCP X:
Open your project in FCP 7, then export it as XML from FCP 7. (You will need to quit FCP X first. Even though it's possible to install both versions on the same machine, you can only have one copy of Final Cut Pro running at one time.)
Import the XML file into CatDV. If necessary, check the Extra tracks & sequences option in CatDV's preferences if you want to bring over more complex sequences (but remember that CatDV only provides very rudimentary cuts-only sequence support).
Select the sequence you want to send over and choose Export as FCP X XML File to save a .fcpxml file
Open this file in FCP X (again, you will have to quit FCP 7 first if it is running on that machine) to create a new project with the timeline.
When exporting an FCP X XML file you can either export a list of clips (to create a new event in the FCP X Event Library) or export a single sequence (to create a new project in the FCP X Project Library, including any clips it depends on in a new event if necessary). You can't mix events and projects in the same .fcpxml file however. You can also go the other way and export an event or a project as an .fcpxml file from FCP X and import that into CatDV. As well as clips and sequences, metadata in the form of descriptions and timecode markers can be sent across.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Bobby FishboughRe: 10.1 XML Import Test - Appears to be DOA
by on Sep 21, 2011 at 10:26:51 pm

You will need the PRO version "CatDVPRO 9.0.1"
It worked for me FCP 7 to FCP X.
When you send the project from CatDV PRO to FCP X it will launch FCP X.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Joel WitmerRe: 10.1 XML Import Test - Appears to be DOA
by on Sep 21, 2011 at 11:46:49 pm

Thanks! For whatever reason I wasn't seeing the .1 update but now I've downloaded it and it works fairly well.

I tried first with a very simple edit. 2 minutes, three or four cuts, of a friend playing a song. The video came in perfectly, all the cuts spot on in the sequence/project. In FCP 7 I had synced the video with a mixed version of the audio. The mixed audio track did not come in at all.

Then I tried a more complex edit. 4 minutes, probably 50 cuts, and I'm noticing small gaps between clips in FCP X in a few places and again none of the secondary audio is coming in at all (just the audio with the clips; no music or SFX). Still, I would say this is pretty usable as-is if you want to just move sequences from 7 into X.

I should note that I don't really use video transitions ever so I'm not sure if those would come in.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Elias HuchRe: 10.1 XML Import Test - Appears to be DOA
by on Nov 8, 2011 at 4:09:54 pm

So, I am getting ready to build a system and SAN revolving around CATdv, but am waiting on approval from up above. Is there a way to do this without CATdv or is there a demo version?

Elias Huch
Motion Graphics Designer
Reelvizion Productions


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Share on Facebook


FORUMSTUTORIALSFEATURESVIDEOSPODCASTSEVENTSSERVICESNEWSLETTERNEWSBLOGS

Creative COW LinkedIn Group Creative COW Facebook Page Creative COW on Twitter
© 2014 CreativeCOW.net All rights are reserved. - Privacy Policy

[Top]