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Some Qs from former FCP 7 user

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Sascha EngelSome Qs from former FCP 7 user
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 5:42:26 am

Hi Everybody,

Yes, I admit it: After being hatefully negativ of FCPX, I took the time now to dive into the software and learn it. I still think, a lot of things are not good and awfully Prosumer orientated, I must say, that some inventions and changes in architecture make it blazing powerful for certain type of jobs.

I have 2 Questions, since I do not seem to figure this out on my own:

1. In FCP7 I can work away for a while, decide that I don't like what I did the last 10min and just close my project without saving those last 10min, then re open, and I have my previous state. But FCPX always is in the current state. Any way to still achieve the same?

2. In FCP7, I can do "save as" and make a different variation of my project, e.g. a client's wish or I wanna just try out things, keeping another copy of the project in its original state.
is that possible with FCPX?

Thanx for suggestions.


Greetings,

Sascha Engel
TIME BANDITZ Productions
http://www.youtube.com/taikang


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Jeff KirklandRe: Some Qs from former FCP 7 user
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 6:48:16 am

Not sure what's prosumer in FCPX but that's a debate for another forum... :-) Most people find that once they get to grips with the X workflow, all the other NLEs seem painfully awkward to use.

On to the questions:

1. I usually select all and create a compound clip as a snapshot of the current project before I do any playing around with ideas. Then just break the compound clip apart again and keep going. Makes it easy to have multiple versions and restore all or part of the previous state of your project.

2. You can duplicate a project (CMD-D when you're in the project library) and move on. You could also do this to snapshot your project when you plan to do some playing around but too many projects open at the same time tends to slow FCPX down a bit.

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer | Southern Creative Media | Melbourne Australia
http://www.southerncreative.com.au | G+: http://gplus.to/jeffkirkland | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Sascha EngelRe: Some Qs from former FCP 7 user
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 7:01:08 am

Thanx for the quick reply!
Point 2 is clear, but could you elaborate on point 1.)?
If you make a compound clip - it's like nesting, no? So if I wanna play around with things inside the compound, I have to open it anyway and then it also changes?

Sascha Engel
TIME BANDITZ Productions
http://www.youtube.com/taikang


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Jeff KirklandRe: Some Qs from former FCP 7 user
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 8:41:58 am

Maybe think of compound clips as virtual clips rather than nested clips. You can open them to edit the contents and make changes globally to every instance, or you can add them to a timeline, break them apart and use them as pseudo templates.. They have lots of uses.

I take a snapshot by turning my timeline into a compound clip. I then immediately break that clip apart again, which breaks the relationship with the new compound clip. I can now edit, play with ideas or whatever. If I need to restore to my snapshot timeline, I can delete the current timeline, edit in the snapshot compound clip, break it apart and be back to where I was before I began playing.

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer | Southern Creative Media | Melbourne Australia
http://www.southerncreative.com.au | G+: http://gplus.to/jeffkirkland | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Sascha EngelRe: Some Qs from former FCP 7 user
by on Jul 18, 2013 at 4:15:03 am

I might come over as really dumb right now: But could you try to explain it once more.
I'm not sure i understand it still, specially the part of taking a Snapshot.
Thanx for your patience:-).

Greetings,

Sascha Engel
TIME BANDITZ Productions
http://www.youtube.com/taikang


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Sascha EngelRe: Some Qs from former FCP 7 user
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 7:09:00 am

..and concerning the Prosumer Q: You are right, it's not for this forum. Just one little side note:
I do see, that a lot of editors, who swear on the the new FCPX produce content that is filled with those FCPX quick working templates and make a lot of things look the same. Many showreels of Production Houses, that I see working their Reels with FCPX have a same look and feel. There is definitely a downside to this kind of approach. Nevertheless, it is crazy fast and innovative way of working considering pure offline editing. Short projects, I'd definitely will edit on this platform. Effects, Online & Grading I still would do on other Apps, since it's too simplified template based in FCPX. Also for features and long documentaries I would not consider it. But hey, like there is no THE camera, there is also not THE NLE App. Every job needs the right tool and for certain things the new FCPX definitely wins the Pepsi challenge by far!

All the Best,

Sascha Engel
TIME BANDITZ Productions
http://www.youtube.com/taikang


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alban eggerRe: Some Qs from former FCP 7 user
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 8:14:48 am

I would duplicate the Project as a "save as..." Workaround.
I then usually make a folder called " versions" so the project library stays clean.

You can do it with compounds. But then you will have to tell FCPX to make an independent copy, because the original compound will be changed otherwise. Therefore i hardly use this as a versioning tool.

Your remark about "prosumer"..... There are millions of aftereffects clips that are based on either templates or give away the aftereffects origin simply by the way the layers are popping up. So it is always the editors choice and not the NLEs fault when stuff looks similar or unoriginal.

We use FCPX for over two years now for broadcast, shortfilms, commercials, documentaries with thousands of clip and even in live-environments as a graphics player. I suggest you use it and don't quote rants from 2011. You will be surprised how well it works once you understand a project is more than a timeline and an event is more than a bin for bins.



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Jeff KirklandRe: Some Qs from former FCP 7 user
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 8:56:35 am

I agree with you - but things like the title templates are great if the budget is low and I get to add a little extra production value that wouldn't otherwise be there. I'd argue that it's not prosumer to provide them, just maybe a little prosumer to use them. But guilty as charged. Any port in a storm or low budget edit :-)

For me FCPX is the cornerstone. All edits start here, and I don't think there's anything much I wouldn't edit in X. Then it's off to Smoke, or Resolve, or After Effects, or whatever else. As you say, there's no one application these days.

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer | Southern Creative Media | Melbourne Australia
http://www.southerncreative.com.au | G+: http://gplus.to/jeffkirkland | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Ronny CourtensRe: Some Qs from former FCP 7 user
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 10:04:49 am

I second Jeff's and Alban's opinions. So much has changed since the first appearance of FCPX. We use it on 15 stations working mainly for national broadcast. We do commercial, episodic, long form documentary and narrative work on it, we have used it for spitting out daily reports against fierce deadlines during the Olympic and Paralympic Games... not exactly "prosumer" stuff I would say.

I hardly ever use the templates, except when I see one that offers a pretty good starting point for a certain job we have to do. Then I open it in Motion to tweak and customize it and I save the custom template straight from Motion into the FCPX browser for further use. This can be a huge time-saver on fast turnaround projects while the client does get his "own" look.

Glad you like the application, once you will get more familiar with it you will see that you can go very deep with it. If you are really new to FCPX a proper basic training is the best way to understand how it really works.

You will be surprised how well it works once you understand a project is more than a timeline and an event is more than a bin for bins. Now that effectively sums it all up!

Oh, and regarding your initial question:

We also use the Duplicate Project feature for versioning, though I'm not a huge fan of storing long Projects as CCs in an Event. However, saving complex compositions as CCs in an Event to re-use them e.g. as editable openers on multiple Projects is a common workflow in our shop.

And of course we use a rigid backup strategy for all our work. Besides our regular media and system backup workflow I have been quite happy with a little app called "Backups" for making incremental backups of our FCPX Events and Projects. The same thing can be done with another app called Proversioner.

http://npassociatesllc.com/backupsforfcp/
http://www.digitalrebellion.com/proversioner/

Happy editing!

-Ronny



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Oliver PetersRe: Some Qs from former FCP 7 user
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 12:28:07 pm

There's a point that's missed about the templates. Yes, there are plenty of lazy editors who simply use the presets without personalizing them, but there IS another approach. Let's say you have a good motion graphics designer who understands Motion. In a station environment, that designer could create a completely custom station graphics package built strictly in Motion as FCP X Effects. These templates can be installed in each editor's system for quick access to this custom graphics package. No need to create rendered animation packages. No need to bounce out to After Effects or even Motion to implement the "look".

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Michael HadleyRe: Some Qs from former FCP 7 user
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 5:08:06 pm

Pro Versioner from Digital Rebellion (and all their maintenance apps) are fantastic. Don't leave home without them.


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Brett ShermanRe: Some Qs from former FCP 7 user
by on Jul 20, 2013 at 1:54:37 pm

[Michael Hadley] "Pro Versioner from Digital Rebellion (and all their maintenance apps) are fantastic. Don't leave home without them."

I used to use Pro Versioner, but it became too buggy in the latest update. I've found it creates endless iterations of the same project or event (I once counted 50 separate folders for one). Even worse I've also found it to massively slow down the computer at times, with up to 90% of processor use. And quiting the process doesn't fix it. THe only thing that works is a reboot until the problem comes back again. I've reported these bugs to Digital Rebellion, but have not heard back. If they fix it I'll return because it really is dummy proof. But for now I'm on Backup for Final Cut Pro which I'm not crazy about since you have to manually setup everything. If you accidentally forget to set it up, or fail to launch it, you are SOL.



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Bob WoodheadRe: Some Qs from former FCP 7 user
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 3:40:51 pm

Take a look at Backups for FCPX. Great cheap tool to handle both your questions. But even with that, I still use duplicate copies of timelines for versioning (beyond the "try that" scenario).


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Jacob BrownRe: Some Qs from former FCP 7 user
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 4:15:58 pm

I would avoid using compound clips unless you are really versed in how they work and sure you need to use one. For one thing they have the potential to bog down the system, but more importantly they complicate things in terms of what are global changes to the compound clip, to its constituent parts, and to the original media.

In almost all cases I find that simply duplicating the project is the way to go.

When working within a large timeline, another option is to simply copy the relevant piece of the timeline into a new project for safekeeping so that if you want to restore that chunk, you have it saved and ready to go.

Typically if I am re-editing a chunk of my timeline I will copy that chunk into a temporary project, edit there AND copy it into a project I call "old sequences" that serves as a backup reservoir for old edits. When I am done editing in the temporary project I copy the sequence into my main timeline and delete the temporary project. If I ever want to restore I simply copy the relevant sequence out of the "old sequences" project.


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Jeff KirklandRe: Some Qs from former FCP 7 user
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 8:21:53 pm

I'm not sure I see how creating a compound clip as a snapshot of the current state of a project can slow down the system. It's just sitting in an event minding its own business, not actually being used anywhere unless you decide to access it's contents to revert some or all of your project, and then you're adding the contents of the clip, not the compound clip itself.

Which is not to say there's anything wrong with duplicating the project or using a backup app or whatever works but I have a 90 minute multicam concert project in front of me that has eleven compound clips in an event as snapshots of my progress and I don't see any signs of the system slowing down.

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer | Southern Creative Media | Melbourne Australia
http://www.southerncreative.com.au | G+: http://gplus.to/jeffkirkland | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Sascha EngelRe: Some Qs from former FCP 7 user
by on Jul 18, 2013 at 4:12:57 am

Thanx so much for all the great feedback and App suggestions. Really helpful and lots of new info.
The FCPX Forum is great - very helpful folks. :-)


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David EaksRe: Some Qs from former FCP 7 user
by on Jul 20, 2013 at 8:43:23 pm

I think Jeff's "compound clips as snapshots" method could be handy, but it is ONLY to be used once you have a firm grasp on how compound clips work.

What he is saying is that you can select everything in the timeline and create a new compound clip (compound clips are saved to your event and you'd give it a name identifying the version, if you go into the compound clip and make changes it will alter every instance of that compound clip on every timeline it is in). The idea is not to actually use the compound clip in any timeline, but to add the compound clip to a timeline and choose "break apart clip items". It will remove the "compounding" so that all the clips are back on the timeline, just like it was before creating the compound clip in the first place. Once broken apart, there is no longer any relationship between the clips on your timeline and the compound clip in the event. So, the compound clip is like a "holding cell" for a version of your edit or a "snapshot".

So, compound the entire timeline and give it a version name, break apart and continue editing, compound it all again at another meaningful point in the edit (this is now snapshot 2), break apart and continue editing, repeat. If you want to go back to an older edit you'd add the appropriate compound to an empty timeline and choose "break apart clips items" and start editing away.

I'd really recommend just using duplicate project to create versions of your edit. Much more straight forward and simple and without many potentially devastating user error problems.

I use compound clips to "store" several little groups of titles/effects/graphics, kept in an event called "All Favorites". For example, a group of three custom titles over a single background graphic, I can open the compound clip in its timeline, copy whichever little title group I want, then go paste it in the project I'm working on. The compound clip itself is never actually edited into a timeline. It's a great way to save a custom template with several elements already put together.

[Jeff Kirkland] "I'd argue that it's not prosumer to provide them, just maybe a little prosumer to use them. But guilty as charged."

Agreed, guilty. But why do people think that FCPX is prosumer because it has templates available? No other "professional" application has ever included a template that maybe wouldn't give the best impression of your companies work if it was use in your project? Thats laughable.

[Ronny Courtens] "I hardly ever use the templates, except when I see one that offers a pretty good starting point for a certain job we have to do. Then I open it in Motion to tweak and customize it and I save the custom template straight from Motion into the FCPX browser for further use. This can be a huge time-saver on fast turnaround projects while the client does get his "own" look. "

This is where the real power is, which in my mind proves beyond any doubt that it is intended for professional use. Creating your own template for use right in FCPX. I just made a simple transition that has Motions 3D Throw behavior parameters published and a cross dissolve at the end. So it does a customizable zoom before a cross dissolve at the end. I used to keyframe the same thing in the timeline fairly often when editing multicam projects. Now the effect is just a click away.


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Sascha EngelRe: Some Qs from former FCP 7 user
by on Jul 20, 2013 at 9:21:31 pm

Thanx for the in depth explanation!!!

Greetings,

Sascha Engel
TIME BANDITZ Productions
http://www.youtube.com/taikang


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Jeff KirklandRe: Some Qs from former FCP 7 user
by on Jul 20, 2013 at 10:09:42 pm

As always, it's whatever works for you. All methods mentioned here are perfectly valid. I prefer the compound clip snapshots because I find that hitting a couple of keystrokes, giving the snapshot a name,then using another keyboard command to break it apart, is less disruptive to my editing than exiting the timeline, duplicating and then coming back in. Plus I can snapshot just part of the timeline if that's all I need to do.

Which is not to say I never duplicate projects but I personally prefer not to have a cluttered project browser.

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer | Southern Creative Media | Melbourne Australia
http://www.southerncreative.com.au | G+: http://gplus.to/jeffkirkland | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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