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OT Logic gets its "X"

COW Forums : Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate

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Steve ConnorOT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 1:16:47 pm

http://www.loopinsight.com/2013/07/16/review-logic-pro-x/

Logic gets to keep tracks

and FCPX XML import/export !!!




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Matt TrubacRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 1:37:13 pm

I'm wondering how the FCPX XML workflow will interact with multicam audio.


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Craig SeemanRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 1:40:47 pm

Interesting observations are that there is no upgrade price. Not that I expect one but some have speculated that somehow Apple would add upgrades to the App Store for FCPX when the time comes. Given how LPX is being handled, I'd assume when FCPX 10.1 hits, it'll be a new purchase.

Also noting that it requires nothing less than the current OSX 10.8.4.



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Andy FieldRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 2:06:00 pm

Wait...it has tracks! Tracks are so 90's.....

Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852


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Craig SeemanRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 2:16:03 pm

Stack Tracks, which look a bit more interesting than standard tracks.



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Mark DobsonRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 2:28:04 pm

Go on, who's going to try it out with FCPX ?

Would it be advisable to strip out the existing copy of Logic ( vers 9.1.8 ) from the hard drive?


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Mark DobsonRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 2:44:12 pm

So how exciting is this?

Well, I'm excited!

This could finally be the route through the North West Passage to a reasonably hassle free FCPX Audio I/O mix down that we have been waiting for.

£139.99 here in the UK. I've got money in the business account and it would be so easy just to press that inviting button but I'll do some homework first.


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Steve ConnorRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 2:49:52 pm

Apple website mentions import and export of OMF/AAF, so finally a route to OMF from FCPX

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Mark DobsonRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 2:55:29 pm

There is built in iPad control surface support with the app waiting on the app store to download.

Unfortunately it won't work with my Version 1 iPad as it requires IOS6.

I'm just speculating but it wouldn't surprise me to see this iPad control surface being implemented into the next FCPX upgrade.


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Marcus MooreRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 3:02:50 pm

I think the use case for iPad control is very specific. Sliders make sense. Perhaps color correction. But as many have pointed out the fastest way to work is often keyboard shortcuts.



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Mark DobsonRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 3:07:07 pm

Sure - I've not been tempted by any 3rd party iPad control surface apps to date.

But if it were designed by Apple to compliment the FCPX I would imagine it would be a useful thing to speculate about.

It would have to be pretty good for me to invest in a new iPad anyway.


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Ronny CourtensRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 3:18:12 pm

Some more details here: http://createdigitalmusic.com/2013/07/cdm-hands-on-logic-pro-x-brings-ipad-...



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Neil GoodmanRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 3:19:30 pm

Man, no 32 bit support is a big bummer. I dont feel the need to keep up to date with my audio plugins and tools the same way i do with video, cause well i dont really make any money off audio so in order to use this release i would need to spend thousands upgrading my Audio plugins; Native Instruments, Waves, Sonalksis, etc,etc) . Also 10.8.4. means until Media Composer goes up to that i cant use it anyways w/o dual boot.

That said the UI additions look great! Looking fwd to using that interface one day. The mixer is sexy as hell. New Flex tool looks good. New VI's look cool.

Kinda underwhelming in terms of improving what was already there, audio editing still has a way to go, the sampler needs a complete overhaul to compete with third party offerings, automation, etc.

Lots of mixed feelings about this release but overall relieved they didnt change the core of the app.

Also for for 200 bucks, the price of most plugins these days, this app is a steal!

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - The Esquire Network - NBC/Uni


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Mark DobsonRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 3:45:44 pm

So that's getting clearer - audio comes back into FCPX asa compound clip

http://alex4d.wordpress.com/


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Oliver PetersRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 5:46:13 pm

[Neil Goodman] "no 32 bit support is a big bummer"

Isn't this true of the new Pro Tools and Audition, as well?

[Neil Goodman] "Also 10.8.4. means until Media Composer goes up to that i cant use it anyways w/o dual boot."

I'm running 10.8.4 and MC7 w/Symphony without issue, from what I can tell.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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David CherniackRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 7:34:44 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Isn't this true of the new Pro Tools and Audition, as well?"

Not true of Audition which can bridge 32 bit plugins for use in its 64 bit architecture. I'd be surprised it Pro Tools can't do same and I don't think it's that difficult for Apple to do it with Logic...Maybe in the next update.

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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Neil GoodmanRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 8:34:35 pm

[Oliver Peters] "[Neil Goodman] "no 32 bit support is a big bummer"

Isn't this true of the new Pro Tools and Audition, as well?

[Neil Goodman] "Also 10.8.4. means until Media Composer goes up to that i cant use it anyways w/o dual boot."

I'm running 10.8.4 and MC7 w/Symphony without issue, from what I can tell.

- Oliver"



Audition ive never used, because it isnt a full fledged DAW as fas i know?

I think Pro tools 11 changed its whole plug in architechture to AVX or something like that so thats a whole nother story. No more RTAS at all.

I was kinda hoping for 32 bit plugs to stick around a while. Not a big deal really, just wont be updating alot of my plug ins yet. Actually wont go up to X until i see more features i actually need. So far its all just spit and polish to me.

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - The Esquire Network - NBC/Uni


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David CherniackRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 11:47:38 pm

[Neil Goodman] "Audition ive never used, because it isnt a full fledged DAW as fas i know?"

Much more fully fledged than most people think. It can be used for full out mixing and is a great tool for audio cleanup, levels processing to the latest C.A.L.M. standards, and a general jack of all audio trades, not to mention it's connect to Premiere. Worthwhile checking out for anyone using the CC suite.

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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Oliver PetersRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 1:50:54 am

[David Cherniack] "Much more fully fledged than most people think."

I would completely agree. Unlike other DAWs, it's dedicated to audio production and post without trying to also be a music creation tool.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Oliver PetersRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 1:51:58 am

[David Cherniack] "Much more fully fledged than most people think"

Also as an FYI - you can Xto7 to an XML and then bring your audio into Audition. Quite nice.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Aindreas GallagherRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 18, 2013 at 9:20:15 pm

I noticed that Larry Jordan made a point of saying, in a wee vid posted before NAB, that he swears by it.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie AustinRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 10:43:50 pm

[Mark Dobson] "Go on, who's going to try it out with FCPX ?"

Well, I did. It uh... needs some work i think. I mean, everything came over, but this:



Became this: (screenshot sfter 1 deleted about 40 of the upper tracks (from a 6 ch master)



To be fair, it's taken the x2pro guys and the Xto7 guys a while to deal with Roles and multitrack sources, so I'm sure it'll get better... :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Jeremy GarchowRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 11:49:48 pm

See?

Thanks, Charlie. It's perfect!

;)


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Craig ShieldsRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 3:30:27 pm

It definitely has some cool features. Lots of skeumorphism still. I really hate those dials. It makes sense in the real world when you're adjusting with your fingers but in a digital world on a Wacom... not so much.



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george manzanillaRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 10:27:01 pm

I like skeumorphism ... i don't think another type of GUI would make much sense. faders and dials are actually a very effective way to change a setting because you can instantly see what your upper and lower limits are.

----
george manzanilla
rundfunk media
http://www.rundfunk.com
http://www.georgemanzanilla.com


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Richard JacanaRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 3:45:10 pm

For those of us who have never used Logic but dabbled a little in Sound Track Pro many moons ago, can someone comment if using it would benefit a video editor using FCPx?

I remember using Sound Track Pro and it seem a little easier to do stuff like normalize the sound etc but most of that can be done within FCPx now.


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Lance BachelderRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 3:53:36 pm

Looks very nice. Now if they can just put tracks and stack tracks into FCPX you'd have a killer duo!

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Marcus MooreRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 4:10:27 pm

I maintain Roles will be the organizational force on the FCPX side. All overlapping lanes in a Role would be a Stack Track, wouldn't it?



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Jeremy GarchowRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 5:00:07 pm

This is kind of a big deal isn't it? From Alex4D:

"You can export Logic Pro X projects as Final Cut Pro X XML files for import into Final Cut.

You can also choose whether you include the video that’s in Logic Pro X in the XML file. The Logic X project can also be exported so that it appears as a compound clip in an event as well as a Final Cut Pro X project.

You can see Final Cut Pro X projects as movies in Logic Pro X’s media browser.

Logic Pro documents will also appear in Final Cut Pro’s media browser so you can use them in Final Cut events and projects."


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Craig SeemanRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 5:08:01 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "This is kind of a big deal isn't it?"

I'd think so.

Always looking at the business side of things, I can't help but wonder why Apple isn't exploiting this in their marketing. It might have been good to highlight this with one of their video examples on the Logic Pro X marketing webpages.



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Simon UbsdellRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 5:21:45 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "This is kind of a big deal isn't it?"

And if they can do this for Logic they can surely manage it for Motion?

Really terrific news anyway.

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Jeremy GarchowRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 5:22:34 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "And if they can do this for Logic they can surely manage it for Motion?"

My thoughts exactly!


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Charlie AustinRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 5:12:25 pm

[Marcus Moore] "I maintain Roles will be the organizational force on the FCPX side. All overlapping lanes in a Role would be a Stack Track, wouldn't it?"

I think you're right. Taking it a step further, speculatively, Maybe they'll bring Stack Track-like functionality to Roles in FCPX. IOW , Roles would stick together where possible and work as sort of "invisible" Compound Clips? That would be awesome, but it gets a little complicated when you've got a multichannel source with multiple embedded Roles. If only one Role is enabled, great, but if you've got, say, DIA and FX components enabled in a clip, which group does it live in? Also, this would only work with audio only connected clips... Who knows... gonna be an interesting update whenever it appears...

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Lance BachelderRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 10:32:54 pm

Not sure if you've worked with stacked tracks before, they've been around a long time in apps like Nuendo, Sony Vegas and Sony Acid. Normally called Container Tracks - I usually create a separate container (stack) for Dialog, FX and Music and route each of them to their own buss. Inside each stack I have multiple tracks for each purpose - sometimes 24 or more for FX.

The purpose is to keep an uncluttered workspace while sound designing etc by collapsing tracks you're not working at that time. I'm just not sure how Roles would work in this scenario? Sadly all the work to create Roles is going to change when you send the project from FCPX to Logic for finishing. I think once it's in Logic it will be apparent how wonderful tracks are and how silly Roles are. I'm hoping this is a sign that tracks are coming back to FCP...

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Jeremy GarchowRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 10:42:05 pm

I don't. I hope it's a sign that stacked tracks can be "Zones" of some sort.

Collections of clips grouped by Role. Components could be broken out to zones. Or, a clock of a button, everything is collapsed back to minimal.

I don't need tracks, I just need track-ish functionality or better visual organization. Role based busses/submixes would be nice, too.


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Lance BachelderRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 1:13:47 am

Well without tracks FCPX will NEVER become a main stream editing program. Look how nice the tracks look in Logic, how could that be a bad thing? Apple was wrong on thinking Roles would work - they're just plain stupid and actually more work than tracks and busses.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Charlie AustinRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 1:15:41 am

[Lance Bachelder] "they're just plain stupid and actually more work than tracks and busses."

No, they're really not.

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Jeremy GarchowRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 1:29:51 am

In my opinion, they aren't plain stupid, they are just under served.

I really like the freedom of no tracks. I don't have to think about it. Combined with the magnetism and connections, X is really right up my alley. Going back to tracks, Pr tracks in particular, is much harder and more creatively stifling.

What I do need, though, when it is time to get detailed, is better visual organization.

As with my things in X, the more you front load the organization, the faster it is in the end.

I assign prelim Roles after import. I wish I could do this during import, on components, too.

In track terms, this is almost pre determining how the multichannel will get patched and exported. I like it.

It is so easy to select a huge swath of clips and assign preliminary, but distinct audio Roles.

I also want each Audio Role to have its own area in the timeline, a target or zone, so that when I add a clip, the audio
goes in to those Zones.

I also like working with everything collapsed sometimes. It's clean and unobstrusive.

I just want to see the trackless vision carried out before reverting back to how every other NLE has operated since nearly the beginning of computer based editing.


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Oliver PetersRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 2:21:08 am

[Lance Bachelder] "Look how nice the tracks look in Logic, how could that be a bad thing?"

Mmmm...... Tracks....

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Marcus MooreRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 2:45:02 am

Hard tracks are irreconcilable with the magnetic timeline and connected clips. There's no point in having tracks where clips need to have freedom of movement to overlap when conflicts arise- if you did this with tracks, they'd have to structural/informational meaning.

A Role is a collection of clips that you choose to group together. Right now, they're grouped by metadata only- but if that info was applied to the Project timeline, it would allow for organization very much like Stacked Tracks. A Role would be a "track" made up of as many lanes as needed for the overlapping elements. If you need more granular control than DIALOGUE, then create sub-Roles for DIALOGUE-JOE and DIALOGUE-MARY. The important thing here is that these elements continue to be free to maintain their clip connections throughout editing.



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Bill DavisRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 3:24:00 am

I've honestly just stopped arguing this.

The people who are stuck on the "tracks are necessary" concept will never really come around.

That's how they think. So its important for them. You have to respect that.

The X editor understands that the trackless idea is a necessary part of the entire gestalt of X editing. Its not just about avoiding clip collisions when moving elements horizontally (tho that's a very nice result!) it's about building "clusters" that move magnetically - and understanding that unique X tools like the Timeline index interacts with the entire X database to allow you to visually search out and "cluster" timeline elements no matter where they've been assigned to by the software collision avoidance process - and let the software reveal their position, rather than just relying on the the visual positional memory that you may or not have - depending on whether you were the original editor who cut the piece.

X is all about the relationships that have been establish between things. NOT about the positions of things in timeline space.

Until that clicks into the editors thinking, either consciously or sub-consciously, it's a losing battle to try to explain why tracks seem so very much less important to a Storyline editor than they were to a traditional fixed timeline editor.

My 2 cents anyway.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Marcus MooreRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 3:37:49 am

I only disagree that visual organization is unimportant in the Timeline.

I'm cribbing from a lengthy (and long overdue) blog post about Roles here-

Right now, the Project timeline is like the Event browser, but if there were no Keyword Collections. You could tag your footage just as we do now, and you could search for clips by criteria and come up with results- but organizationally it works much better if you can see that structure at work. In the Event Browser, that's what Keyword Collections (and Smart Collections) are; an enhanced version of Bins based on metadata rules.

If Apple took Role data and applied it the same way in the Timeline, you'd have a similarly organized but free flowing structure. A "Role Collection" if you will.



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Charlie AustinRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 4:35:03 am

[Marcus Moore] "I only disagree that visual organization is unimportant in the Timeline."

I'm with you. And while I agree with Bill that it one does need to kind of "get it" I also feel it's a work in progress, It's not done. And while it is awesome to move *clusters*, sometimes it becomes a cluster*** ... such as when you want to move a cluster, but exclude one thing, like a bit of MX that's part of a larger whole. The ~key is great, now we need a "reverse~" key... keep connections on except for this one thing... *That's* where beefing up Roles comes in. Spatial grouping of Roles is a necessary enhancement, and Apple Know it. However, it ain't easy what with multichannel components in clips, with differing Roles. What group does it go in? DIA or FX,? 'cuz it has both. Maybe user defined groups? That'd be nice. Maybe... who knows? I'm excited to see what they come up with! :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Lance BachelderRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 11:12:49 am

I completely "get" Roles, but after a couple of years of using FCPX and recently cutting a couple of shows in Premiere Pro CC, I couldn't believe how nice it was to have a super fast 64 bit FCP Classic style of NLE to work in. Bins, multiple sequences, TRACKS, it really is the best way to do a show.

If you want to round trip shows with FCPX and Logic X, which is what I'd like to do, then Roles will become a temporary "workaround" to get audio into final mix in an orderly fashion. I think that's extra work and thus "stupid".

Try sending your show from Premiere CC to Audition CC - you're show goes to final mix exactly how you had it layed out in the edit. This is the way work should be because if I die or get fired or move to another show the next Editor can just glance at my timeline and see how it's organized. The Editor doesn't have to go looking and hope that i used Roles properly...

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Oliver PetersRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 12:00:25 pm

I really like tracks, as well. I wish Apple had come up with a design that's somewhere in-between. Maybe tracks with the ability to collapse then into clip-containers. In any case, there is often a need to place a clip in an absolute relationship against time and in a locked vertical hierarchy. That is very difficult to do in X. That's without any connection or dependency to the clips around it. And no, the "position" mode and slugged secondary storylines is not adequate, IMHO.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Marcus MooreRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 2:47:45 pm

I'm just going to back up and agree with you that the current implementation is not adequate. Of course, I'm arguing in the abstract for an idea that doesn't exist yet. If they don't do something with Roles organization in the timeline I'll be very disappointed.

But on the scope of a completed implementation, there's no way I'd ever want to go back to Bins from the metadata tagging, Keyword Collections, and Smart Collections way of doing things. Never.

I think the attractive *idea* to me about what FCPX is doing with audio is that once relationships are set up it allows you to completely focus on the picture side of the edit only. In Legacy, cutting picture in a deep A/V structured timeline- you can get bogged down selecting audio elements involved in that picture edit. What elements are tied to the inbound shot? what's tied to the outbound? There's a massive amount of selecting and deselecting that goes on that gets in the way of the business of cutting. I think in this scenario, the audio side is impeding the process of editing.

The idea of Connected Clips, and Roles- should technically allow for an audio structure that takes more time up front to set up, but saves time on every edit down the line. The pure audio process suffers (if you have to translate to tracks later), but editorial is (at least in theory) improved as the number of steps to execute on a single edit goes down.

And if Roles are executed in the timeline properly, the translation to a DAW should be seamless.



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Charlie AustinRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 3:18:55 pm

[Marcus Moore] "Of course, I'm arguing in the abstract for an idea that doesn't exist yet. If they don't do something with Roles organization in the timeline I'll be very disappointed."

I'm with you. And I'll add that if they don't do something with Roles organization I'll be very surprised. :-)

[Marcus Moore] "there's no way I'd ever want to go back to Bins from the metadata tagging, Keyword Collections, and Smart Collections way of doing things. Never."

Me too. I have to pop back and for between X, 7, and sometimes Pr... And while I can understand Lance's feelings, I have quite the opposite reaction. :-) Honestly, I think it depends on what type of program you're cutting.

[Marcus Moore] "I think the attractive *idea* to me about what FCPX is doing with audio is that once relationships are set up it allows you to completely focus on the picture side of the edit only. In Legacy, cutting picture in a deep A/V structured timeline- you can get bogged down selecting audio elements involved in that picture edit."

Exactly. This is what now drives me crazy when cutting in track based NLE's. In X I can focus on just cutting. "I/O -> edit" . Versus "traditional NLE's: I/O -> figure out where everything needs to go -> reassign tracks -> edit". I guess if you don't have a lot of "tracks" to worry about this isn't an issue, or if you just like working this way. Not me. for any given shot/title whatever, I'll potentially have 2-6+ stereo audio clips associated below it, overlapping from one to the next. The ability to just drop something into the timeline without worrying about it's "assignment" saves me tons of time. Of course YMMV...

[Marcus Moore] "The idea of Connected Clips, and Roles- should technically allow for an audio structure that takes more time up front to set up, but saves time on every edit down the line. "

Yep, and it does take a little more time on the front end, but then you're done, and manipulating/muting/soloing, locating, effecting, selecting various audio elements is orders of magnitude easier than with tracks. You can, of course, do the same thing with tracks, but agian, organizing in tracks is a constant thing, "where does this go?" is a part of every edit decision. I like leaving that part out. ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Jeremy GarchowRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 4:50:15 pm

Multichannel editing and output in Pr is extremely annoying to me.

i don't understand why if I have a track with one mono channel in it and twirl the track open to make adjustments, I have to look at all 7 blank channels if my timeline is set to an 8 channel output. And then if I need to monitor in stereo, I can't. If I create a stereo timeline, and need an 8 channel output, it's a lot of work, and by work I mean clicking. With all of Pr's great submix capability, I can't simply setup a send to a stereo mix down in a multichannel enviro. It hurts.

Roles is so much easier, as was FCP7 as I could choose to mix in 8 channel, monitor in stereo, and export whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted. X follows that same method, albeit differently, and sometimes much more easily. If you don't deliver mutlichannel audio, then perhaps Roles might be "stupid" but if you do, then Roles makes things really simple and there's no track tetris needed before export.

A big missing piece for me is the visual organization of audio.

The tilde key was a big game changer for me, but I have been arguing for better audio component visual organization utilizing FCPX's current methodologies for a long time now. I'm sure something is coming. Audio has received decent attention since 10.0. Now with Logic X capabilities, I'm sure we will see some more.


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Mathieu GhekiereRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 6:23:38 pm

I'm having the feeling Apple isn't really marketing it as a post-production sound-editing companion for FCPX, which I feel is a bit of a wasted opportunity since the app could still function as both music and sound-editing tool, I think. And the FCPX and Apple Pro Software Eco-system could use this.

I bought it anyway, since I only got a Logic 8 licence (I dabble with keyboards and pianos once in a while, but haven't gotten enough into the software side of things to be knowledgeable) , but wondering if anyone knows about specific post-production sweetening that you can do in Logic X, besides what we already have in FCPX?
For example, in FCPX you have automatic background noise removal, but I'm never impressed by the results. In Soundtrack Pro you could make a noise print, and then do the same, and results were MUCH better.

I have a Logic 8 and now X License, but I don't know the program really well. Does anyone know if it does some things like soundtrack Pro did, in regards to post-production sound sweetening?

Also, does anyone already know how projects and roles transfer to Logic X? If it doesn't do well, I'm thinking it's still waiting to happen in the next FCPX update, or if it's not, that would be really dissapointing.
Because X now gives us, in combination with FCPX XML, a decent audio mixer. And control hardware support!

Maybe Ripple Training should make a tutorial for Logic X geared towards editors.

Also wondering how big the need for XtoProtools is if you have Logic X.

All in all, glad to see Apple making an update on Logic. It's been 4 years or so, and however you slice it, it's a long time to update your pro-software. The interface looks much better, and reminds at FCPX.

Now it does look extra strange that Compressor and Motion still have numbers instead of just Motion X, Compressor X.


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Helge TjeltaRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 7:54:01 pm

"Also wondering how big the need for XtoProtools is if you have Logic X."

If you are going to use Nuendo or ProTools as soundediting xtoProtools is still valid!

/helge

Helge


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Oliver PetersRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 8:03:31 pm

While this is a strong product and great for X, the majority of sound designers/post production mixers (as opposed to musicians and composers) aren't going to go away from Pro Tools. That might be different in Europe and other parts of the world versus the US. In any case, Pro Tools - and to a lesser degree Nuendo and Fairlight - is still the DAW of choice in the audio-for-video post production world.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Simon UbsdellRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 8:14:56 pm

[Oliver Peters] "While this is a strong product and great for X, the majority of sound designers/post production mixers (as opposed to musicians and composers) aren't going to go away from Pro Tools. That might be different in Europe and other parts of the world versus the US. In any case, Pro Tools - and to a lesser degree Nuendo and Fairlight - is still the DAW of choice in the audio-for-video post production world."

While I am very excited about this release and what it means for the FCP X ecosystem and Apple's program for the future of the pro apps generally, I have to agree with this completely.

In my business (movie trailers based out of London, England), there simply isn't any question of being able to work in Logic, even if I want to, as interchange between other facilities and our own has to be seamless and instant and that will continue to mean ProTools for any foreseeable future.

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Ronny CourtensRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 8:42:27 pm

Same here. Very happy to see Logic updated, but this will not have any influence on our established workflow with ProTools for audio sweetening. Logic and ProTools are very different applications. X2Pro does an excellent job getting our projects into PT and we will continue using it.



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Neil GoodmanRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 8:37:44 pm

[Oliver Peters] "While this is a strong product and great for X, the majority of sound designers/post production mixers (as opposed to musicians and composers) aren't going to go away from Pro Tools. That might be different in Europe and other parts of the world versus the US. In any case, Pro Tools - and to a lesser degree Nuendo and Fairlight - is still the DAW of choice in the audio-for-video post production world.

- Oliver
"



This,

plus if you were actually using it for making music, everyones already moved on to Cubase or Ableton, or back to Pro Tools.

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - The Esquire Network - NBC/Uni


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Steve ConnorRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 8:41:13 pm

[Neil Goodman] "everyones already moved on to Cubase or Ableton, or back to Pro Tools."

Everyone? That's bad news for Apple then

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Neil GoodmanRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 10:53:17 pm

[Steve Connor] "[Neil Goodman] "everyones already moved on to Cubase or Ableton, or back to Pro Tools."

Everyone? That's bad news for Apple then

Steve Connor"



I am one of the last people in my circle of music producer people using it. 9 was so long in the tooth, people moved to Ableton, and alot of them went back to Cubase as of version 7 andof course Pro Tools isnt ever going out of style.

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - The Esquire Network - NBC/Uni


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Jeremy GarchowRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 11:54:31 pm

[Neil Goodman] "9 was so long in the tooth, "

Now, 10 is so short in the tooth no one will use it.

What a conundrum.


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Chris HarlanRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 3:31:03 am

[Neil Goodman] "f course Pro Tools isnt ever going out of style."

I would sure like Protools to get rid of that stupid dongle the way MC products have.


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Ronny CourtensRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 9:21:26 pm

Reading the positive reactions on different specialized audio forums I would say Logic still has a fairly loyal user base. And with this new version Apple certainly seems to reconfirm its commitment to the music pros as well.

Getting Logic back to the same status of years ago will undoubtedly take time, but like we have seen with FCPX opinions can change very quickly in our business. No time for testing now but I will certainly download a copy later this week to see if this could add something to our workflow or not. If anyone starts testing how FCPX projects translate to Logic X (and vice-versa) I will be happy to read your findings.



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Oliver PetersRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 9:37:03 pm

[Ronny Courtens] "Getting Logic back to the same status of years ago will undoubtedly take time, but like we have seen with FCPX opinions can change very quickly in our business. "

I think they have a similar challenge with Aperture. It started that market and then Apple let Adobe eat its lunch with Lightroom.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Charlie AustinRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 16, 2013 at 8:11:51 pm

[Helge Tjelta] "xtoProtools is still valid!"

I would not be at all surprised to see X2Pro morph into something that does more than just audio. Kind of an Auto Duck for FCP X. Take a look at Marquis' other products... Also, If you need something like this (AVID compatible AAF's etc) go to the X2Pro site and request it!. I did. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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+1

Mathieu GhekiereRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 8:14:15 am

http://www.fcptalent.com/logic-pro-x-dialog-box-refers-to-something-fcpx-do...


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Ronny CourtensRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 10:32:59 am

Thanks for the link, Mathieu. Interesting...



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Jeremy GarchowRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 4:52:39 pm

[Ronny Courtens] "Thanks for the link, Mathieu. Interesting..."

Yes, thanks.

Perhaps Media Browser is some sort of ProApps media hub?


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John DavidsonRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 10:45:13 pm

I feel like I've been saying it so much it hurts. The media browser is the gold hiding in the mountains of OSX. If they get it perfected, no other programs will come close to it's power. Maybe in Mavericks it'll really shine - especially with tags?

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Ian BaileyRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 11:17:51 am

As mentioned on the link from Mathieu there is currently no Share > Media Browser option, but in the settings when sharing as a Master File there is 'Publish to Media Browser' in the When Done menu under Settings.

When I tried this the following happened:

- Without prompting me for a location, the MOV was exported to the Shared Items folder inside the project folder. This is also the home of the .plist that tracks all shared files.

- At the same time iTunes launched itself. I'm not sure why because the 'Publish to Media Browser' option isn't in the 'ADD TO ITUNES' category.

I was under the impression that Media Browser was a collective name for the Effects Browser, Transitions Browser, etc.


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Ronny CourtensRe: OT Logic gets its "X"
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 12:38:22 pm

This Share > Media Browser option used to exist in previous versions of FCPX, prior to 10.0.6: http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/fcp_x_share_export_stone.html

And as you say it now exists as "Publish to Media Browser" in the Share > Master File menu.

IMO this option only relates to making videos exported from FCPX show up directly in the Media Browser of any apps that have this shared Media Browser.

As opposed to what the article states I don't think this has much to do with opening FCPX Projects in LPX, which is done through FCPXML.

Wish I had the time to test all this now. But I'm sure someone else will ((-:



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